What went wrong after Holland?

[Wirestone]

I think it's important to basically see every Beach Boys album from Holland on as an individual Beach Boy's take on what made the group successful, and his attempt to appeal to the record-buying public of the day.

Holland -- Carl's take (aided and abetted by Jack Reiley and the Flame) on a certain gritty '70s sound.
15 Big Ones and Love You -- Brian attempts a covers album (which kind of works) and one of originals (which doesn't sell).
M.I.U. -- Al (aided and abetted by Mike and a reluctant Brian) tries to make a more polished version of the last two records.
L.A. -- Carl (with help from Dennis, this time) tries for a slicker, yet artistic sound.
Keeping the Summer Alive -- Bruce picks up the pieces from a shattered Brian.
BB85 -- Carl (aided by a somewhat recovered Brian) has one more go at making a synth-pop record.
Still Crusin' -- Mike's efforts dominate, but Al and Brian get their own tracks, along with reused 60s numbers.
Summer in Paradise -- Mike finally has his go at directing an album. Hm.
Stars and Stripes -- Mike's project, with a "producer" credit going to Brian.
Untitled 2012 album -- Brian takes the helm once again.

So in other words, this is the first Beach Boys album --

In 16 years to bear a Brian Wilson production credit.
In 23 years to have non-remade Brian Wilson songs.
In 27 years to have more than one non-remade Brian Wilson song.
In 27 years to have a Wilson-Love collaboration.
In 35 years to be both produced and mostly written by Brian Wilson.

[adamghost]

This thread kind of illustrates why LIGHT ALBUM works for me.  The production is commercial in a way that's appropriate for its time (as opposed to MIU, which sounds thin and cheesy to me), the songs range from mediocre to great, but there's no real horrible bummers there, the lyrics are dignified and don't delve into nostalgia.  Most of peoples' problem with it stems from HCTN, but I happen to be one of the few who think it's awesome (though they probably should have used the single edit for the album).

I totally understand why folks would prefer, from an artistic standpoint, LOVE YOU.  Got it.  But in terms of trying for a hit record in a way that actually made sense to the marketplace and the band's sound and legacy, LIGHT ALBUM comes pretty close in a way none of the other late period ones do.  Yeah, the disco thing was ill-advised in some ways but let me tell you...I just listened to Elton John's single "Victim Of Love" and gang, HCTN does not come anywhere near as being as bad, by-the-numbers, or totally worthless as that piece of crap does.  And I loves me Elton John as much as I love the BBs.

Although, to be fair, Victim of Love was kind of a side project. Elton didn't write any of the material, or have anything to do with the playing or arrangements. He has plausible deniability!

Point just bein', the knives people have out to HCTN don't seem to be as deserved, particularly when I look at "Victim Of Love."

[Nicko1234]

I agree with the comments on Light Album and I guess having the label putting pressure on them made the group become more professional.

The length of HCTN is a massive problem and it does unbalance the album. A shorter version would have fitted better but would still have stuck out like a sore thumb. Shortenin' Bread also doesn't add anything. If they could have added a couple of other originals (they had plenty to choose from by Mike and Dennis) then it would have improved things further.

[Cam Mott]

I guess the answer is nothing went wrong, everything went its natural course.

[cablegeddon]

I think it's important to basically see every Beach Boys album from Holland on as an individual Beach Boy's take on what made the group successful, and his attempt to appeal to the record-buying public of the day.

Holland -- Carl's take (aided and abetted by Jack Reiley and the Flame) on a certain gritty '70s sound.
15 Big Ones and Love You -- Brian attempts a covers album (which kind of works) and one of originals (which doesn't sell).
M.I.U. -- Al (aided and abetted by Mike and a reluctant Brian) tries to make a more polished version of the last two records.
L.A. -- Carl (with help from Dennis, this time) tries for a slicker, yet artistic sound.
Keeping the Summer Alive -- Bruce picks up the pieces from a shattered Brian.
BB85 -- Carl (aided by a somewhat recovered Brian) has one more go at making a synth-pop record.
Still Crusin' -- Mike's efforts dominate, but Al and Brian get their own tracks, along with reused 60s numbers.
Summer in Paradise -- Mike finally has his go at directing an album. Hm.
Stars and Stripes -- Mike's project, with a "producer" credit going to Brian.
Untitled 2012 album -- Brian takes the helm once again.

So in other words, this is the first Beach Boys album --

In 16 years to bear a Brian Wilson production credit.
In 23 years to have non-remade Brian Wilson songs.
In 27 years to have more than one non-remade Brian Wilson song.
In 27 years to have a Wilson-Love collaboration.
In 35 years to be both produced and mostly written by Brian Wilson.

I like your rundown but this confused me. If MIU was more polished, and LA was slicker then I don't understand the difference?

[BillA]

I like your rundown but this confused me. If MIU was more polished, and LA was slicker then I don't understand the difference?

MIU = Mike's vision
LA = Carl's vision

In the post Holland era Carl had a better take on what worked than Mike. 

Except for HCTN (I hated it.  The music sounds like it came from the CHiPs sound track), LA is the best album of the post Holland era.  Too bad this could not have been the 1976 album.

On BB85 and KTSA the best songs are Carl's songs - escepecially BB85 where there is just such a different feel to them.

[BillA]

Sure they became experimental and intentionally so at first. The weirdness in Love You is all about mental illness though. People say, 'it's so Brian'. In a way that's true because it is so mentally ill Brian. That's the piece of human wreckage that he's become at the time. There are a lot of people who love the fact that Brian had so many problems though and that is his appeal.

Yes, it wasn't commercial for the time - but it *was*, along with Neil Young's work at the time, the only artistically valid response to the punk music that was coming out at the time from anyone of Brian's generation. And the fact that it wasn't intended as such and Brian had almost certainly never heard the Ramones or Jonathan Richman just makes that even better. There's a reason that musicians like Patti Smith and Peter Buck love the album.

"Some Girls" kicked Punk's ass, and then for good measure kicked disco's ass too.

[hypehat]

Disco is amazing, f*** y'all.

[runnersdialzero]

Sure they became experimental and intentionally so at first. The weirdness in Love You is all about mental illness though. People say, 'it's so Brian'. In a way that's true because it is so mentally ill Brian. That's the piece of human wreckage that he's become at the time. There are a lot of people who love the fact that Brian had so many problems though and that is his appeal.

Not necessarily true. Not true at all for me, I know. I genuinely enjoy Love You, I don't do so to be "ironic" or because of some kind of trainwreck-appeal.

I don't consider Love You "Brian at his worst" or "most mentally ill" because I'll be damned if that wasn't the most productive the guy had been since '66. That says something.

[Wirestone]

I think it's important to basically see every Beach Boys album from Holland on as an individual Beach Boy's take on what made the group successful, and his attempt to appeal to the record-buying public of the day.

Holland -- Carl's take (aided and abetted by Jack Reiley and the Flame) on a certain gritty '70s sound.
15 Big Ones and Love You -- Brian attempts a covers album (which kind of works) and one of originals (which doesn't sell).
M.I.U. -- Al (aided and abetted by Mike and a reluctant Brian) tries to make a more polished version of the last two records.
L.A. -- Carl (with help from Dennis, this time) tries for a slicker, yet artistic sound.
Keeping the Summer Alive -- Bruce picks up the pieces from a shattered Brian.
BB85 -- Carl (aided by a somewhat recovered Brian) has one more go at making a synth-pop record.
Still Crusin' -- Mike's efforts dominate, but Al and Brian get their own tracks, along with reused 60s numbers.
Summer in Paradise -- Mike finally has his go at directing an album. Hm.
Stars and Stripes -- Mike's project, with a "producer" credit going to Brian.
Untitled 2012 album -- Brian takes the helm once again.

So in other words, this is the first Beach Boys album --

In 16 years to bear a Brian Wilson production credit.
In 23 years to have non-remade Brian Wilson songs.
In 27 years to have more than one non-remade Brian Wilson song.
In 27 years to have a Wilson-Love collaboration.
In 35 years to be both produced and mostly written by Brian Wilson.

I like your rundown but this confused me. If MIU was more polished, and LA was slicker then I don't understand the difference?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.

My point is that MIU was Al's attempt to do a more polished version of the previous two records -- 15BO and Love You. You have some songs left over from those sessions, you have Brian actively involved as a singer, player and composer. But you have Al attempting to make that into his version of a commercial sounding record.

LA is Carl's attempt to do a slick, sophisticated pop sound -- more polished than anything the band had attempted since Sunflower. It's slicker than the previous three records, but also more tasteful than all of them. (And that was latter-day Carl for you!)

I like your rundown but this confused me. If MIU was more polished, and LA was slicker then I don't understand the difference?

MIU = Mike's vision
LA = Carl's vision

In the post Holland era Carl had a better take on what worked than Mike. 

Except for HCTN (I hated it.  The music sounds like it came from the CHiPs sound track), LA is the best album of the post Holland era.  Too bad this could not have been the 1976 album.

On BB85 and KTSA the best songs are Carl's songs - escepecially BB85 where there is just such a different feel to them.

As I said, I think MIU is actually Al's vision, aided and abetted by Mike. Love wasn't actually driving the musical train. He certainly wanted to re-establish himself as a lyricist, but I don't see the overall sound or vibe as Mike's doing.

[Lonely Summer]

I like your rundown but this confused me. If MIU was more polished, and LA was slicker then I don't understand the difference?

MIU = Mike's vision
LA = Carl's vision

In the post Holland era Carl had a better take on what worked than Mike. 

Except for HCTN (I hated it.  The music sounds like it came from the CHiPs sound track), LA is the best album of the post Holland era.  Too bad this could not have been the 1976 album.

On BB85 and KTSA the best songs are Carl's songs - escepecially BB85 where there is just such a different feel to them.

I agree with you 100%. So much of Mike and (blasphemy alert  ) Brian's songs on those albums sound like attempts to recreate the early BB's sound; Carl, with the possible exception of the title song of KTSA, doesn't bother with that. KTSA could have been better if Dennis had bothered to contribute (as he did on LA); Brian probably had better songs he could've contributed to BB85, but preferred to keep them for his solo album.

[Nicko1234]

As I said, I think MIU is actually Al's vision, aided and abetted by Mike. Love wasn't actually driving the musical train. He certainly wanted to re-establish himself as a lyricist, but I don't see the overall sound or vibe as Mike's doing.

Al has said that he produced the vocals but not the music. Ron Altbach (I guess She's Got Rhythm is good evidence of this) handed him a bunch of mediocre tracks and he had the challenge of adding the vocals. I think he did a great job considering Carl was absent for much of it.