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Author Topic: Creedence Clearwater Revival's last time together on stage ?  (Read 15448 times)
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« on: February 29, 2012, 10:46:29 AM »

After the breakup John Fogerty appeared two times with the other members on stage (one time it was only Doug Clifford and Fogerty, see this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WySaetpQOQ). Tom Fogerty's '74 solo album had the track "Joyful resurrection" on it which featured all members of the group, although John might've overdubbed his parts later without Clifford and Cook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFyyxMOdecE
When they were inducted into the Hall Of Fame, John refused to play with Doug Clifford and Stu Cook at the concert. So the induction probably was the last time you saw the three surviving members of CCR on stage together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3C3e5WEvAU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zymOIGzYZZw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWFXsY0IjxY&feature=related
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« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2012, 04:56:17 PM »

I believe it was at a wedding..honest. Cheesy
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« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2012, 11:26:38 PM »

The last time they performed together was at Tom's wedding.
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2012, 12:42:43 AM »

Actually it was at a high school reunion in 1988. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WySaetpQOQ
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 04:38:02 AM »

Actually it was at a high school reunion in 1988. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WySaetpQOQ


I posted that link above. This is only John and Doug.

The last time they played together was at Tom's wedding, right. But after that the three of them had their last appearance together - as of yet - at the Hall of fame induction. I don't think they even met after that.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 10:03:04 PM »

Wish these guys could've put their differences aside just once for a proper show or tour. John is quite good on his own, but there was something special about the combination of John, Tom, Stu and Doug. Tom's role in the group is often belittled, but he was a great rhythm guitarist - something which is underappreciated these days. Could've sung some songs, too, if John had let him. Back in the Blue Velvets days, he was the lead singer.
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 07:01:34 PM »

I can't stand seeing Fogerty playing with jerkoffs like Kenny Arnoff and a bunch of other faceless, overplaying merdaholes. He can say whatever he wants about Stu and Doug but they were one of those rare rhythm sections who could both swing/tear it up AND underplay at the same time. And if wasn't just Fogerty's songs that made the band kick. Toss on Doug Sahm's "Groover's Paradise" album (Cosmo produced and he and Stu are the rhythm section) for proof! There is some serious magic in those guy's playing and Sahm seems to be having the time of his life.

And the Mardi Gras album ain't half bad either! If John had played on them/sung on Doug/Stu's songs, some would be CCR classics/standards!

« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 07:03:53 PM by Erik H » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 11:59:11 PM »

I can't stand seeing Fogerty playing with jerkoffs like Kenny Arnoff and a bunch of other faceless, overplaying merdaholes. He can say whatever he wants about Stu and Doug but they were one of those rare rhythm sections who could both swing/tear it up AND underplay at the same time. And if wasn't just Fogerty's songs that made the band kick. Toss on Doug Sahm's "Groover's Paradise" album (Cosmo produced and he and Stu are the rhythm section) for proof! There is some serious magic in those guy's playing and Sahm seems to be having the time of his life.

And the Mardi Gras album ain't half bad either! If John had played on them/sung on Doug/Stu's songs, some would be CCR classics/standards!


I think Mardi Gras got bad reviews because it was so different from what people expected. I mean, a Creedence album where John only wrote 3 songs, sang just 4? I can understand why fans at the time felt ripped off. That said, Doug had a pretty decent voice, and both he and Stu wrote some good tunes for the album. Were they as good as John's best stuff? Probably not, but they certainly weren't horrible. Too bad the democracy thing didn't happen while Tom was still in the band. There's a couple of Tom's songs I would rate with the best of CCR, Joyful Resurrection and Goodbye Media Man.
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2012, 08:29:46 AM »

To describe Kenny Aronoff (btw, that's how his name is spelled) as a jerkoff just shows a total lack of knowledge. He's one of the best drummer in the business today.



I can't stand seeing Fogerty playing with jerkoffs like Kenny Arnoff and a bunch of other faceless, overplaying merdaholes. He can say whatever he wants about Stu and Doug but they were one of those rare rhythm sections who could both swing/tear it up AND underplay at the same time. And if wasn't just Fogerty's songs that made the band kick. Toss on Doug Sahm's "Groover's Paradise" album (Cosmo produced and he and Stu are the rhythm section) for proof! There is some serious magic in those guy's playing and Sahm seems to be having the time of his life.

And the Mardi Gras album ain't half bad either! If John had played on them/sung on Doug/Stu's songs, some would be CCR classics/standards!


I think Mardi Gras got bad reviews because it was so different from what people expected. I mean, a Creedence album where John only wrote 3 songs, sang just 4? I can understand why fans at the time felt ripped off. That said, Doug had a pretty decent voice, and both he and Stu wrote some good tunes for the album. Were they as good as John's best stuff? Probably not, but they certainly weren't horrible. Too bad the democracy thing didn't happen while Tom was still in the band. There's a couple of Tom's songs I would rate with the best of CCR, Joyful Resurrection and Goodbye Media Man.



C'mon, let's be realistic. The songs by Doug and Stu on Mardi Gras are average at best. I like the sound of the album but on the whole Fogerty's songs are just a completely different dimension. Nothing angainst the two of them, 'cause I like their playing a lot, but it just couldn't go right if they all of sudden tried to be songwriters and singers.
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 08:51:13 AM »

I think it's just almost irresistable for someone like John Fogerty to eventually... eventually... start thinking "Why in the hell am I paying these guys so much when I could hire other guys, and the songs would sound virtually the same".

Of course they were all great, but the general public, in general, doesn't care who anybody is outside of the 1. lead singer 2. lead guitarist 3. songwriter... of whom John was pretty much all 3. 

So he probably either decided himself, or had a wife/girlfriend/manager etc. whisper in his ear that he could make a ton more money without them. 

Call it the Diana Ross syndrome if you will. 
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 11:20:24 AM »

Doug and Stu were one of the best rhythm sections in the biz. John was the star but the guys behind him made the songs cook.
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« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 11:51:04 AM »

To describe Kenny Aronoff (btw, that's how his name is spelled) as a jerkoff just shows a total lack of knowledge. He's one of the best drummer in the business today.


I can't stand seeing Fogerty playing with jerkoffs like Kenny Arnoff and a bunch of other faceless, overplaying merdaholes. He can say whatever he wants about Stu and Doug but they were one of those rare rhythm sections who could both swing/tear it up AND underplay at the same time. And if wasn't just Fogerty's songs that made the band kick. Toss on Doug Sahm's "Groover's Paradise" album (Cosmo produced and he and Stu are the rhythm section) for proof! There is some serious magic in those guy's playing and Sahm seems to be having the time of his life.

And the Mardi Gras album ain't half bad either! If John had played on them/sung on Doug/Stu's songs, some would be CCR classics/standards!


I think Mardi Gras got bad reviews because it was so different from what people expected. I mean, a Creedence album where John only wrote 3 songs, sang just 4? I can understand why fans at the time felt ripped off. That said, Doug had a pretty decent voice, and both he and Stu wrote some good tunes for the album. Were they as good as John's best stuff? Probably not, but they certainly weren't horrible. Too bad the democracy thing didn't happen while Tom was still in the band. There's a couple of Tom's songs I would rate with the best of CCR, Joyful Resurrection and Goodbye Media Man.



C'mon, let's be realistic. The songs by Doug and Stu on Mardi Gras are average at best. I like the sound of the album but on the whole Fogerty's songs are just a completely different dimension. Nothing against the two of them, 'cause I like their playing a lot, but it just couldn't go right if they all of sudden tried to be songwriters and singers.


Aronoff as a jerkoff? Well, that's just my opinion of the guy. Yeah, I know he's skilled and all that but I've always felt he overplays and falls back on the same boring fill (that I'll decline to chart out here) over and over again. Once again. just my opinion. I do know how respected he is. I just don't think he fits with Fogerty at all and distracts from the songs in a bad way.

And it's not that Doug and Stu just tried to be songwriters overnight. Fogerty put 'em up to it. They were asking for more say business-wise etc and to be able to sing harmonies on the records. To say their songs are average at best is just your opinion. Of course they aren't as good as Fogerty's stuff, but I think it's silly to suggest they couldn't have been approved upon with John's active participation, therefore it's a sad missed opportunity in my opinion. But overall, Mardi Gras is a decent enough debut by Doug & Stu as a writing/playing unit. The cheap and easy Fogerty comparison is simply unfortunate.

Doug, Stu, and Tom were also and exciting rhythm section to watch as well. Check out any old  live CCR footage and the energy is just crackling in a way that I've rarely seen.
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« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2012, 11:56:45 AM »

The only conceivable reason a fan would want John Fogerty to get back with the rhythm section of his old band is so they wouldn't have to hear Center Field when they go to a concert.

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« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2012, 11:59:26 AM »

The only conceivable reason a fan would want John Fogerty to get back with the rhythm section of his old band is so they wouldn't have to hear Center Field when they go to a concert.



Maybe also because IT WOULD BE CREEDENCE!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2012, 12:47:18 PM »

I think Fogerty needs to GROW UP and put his differences with Doug and Stu aside. Even if they don't ever play together again, the least JF can do is drop his 40 year old grudge.
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« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2012, 01:00:15 PM »

To say their songs are average at best is just your opinion.



Nope, just mere fact ! Listen to something like "Tearin' up the country", that's high school level.



Quote
Of course they aren't as good as Fogerty's stuff

If you are in a band like CCR and be on top at that time, you better make sure that your product is at least somehwat as good as your previous stuff. That's your obligation. And if you're not able to do that, then let Fogerty go on as before. It's kinda like 'Hey Brian, let's forget about "Still I dream of it", I wrote a song called "Kona cost".' And with CCR at that moment, success showed that it wasn't the worst way to rely on Fogerty.
Again, that's nothing against Cook and Clifford as musicians. I respect them very much, because they had a great sound together, but the point is something else entirely.

If they wanted to have more say in business decisions - which I can totally understand - it should be clear to them that they can't expect John letting them decide about what his songs, his arrangements and his productions should sound like. So it's just a logical thought that they would have to write some songs on their own. It's another thing if Fogerty shouldn't have refused to play lead guitar on their songs. I think he should've done that in a matter of collegiality. It's business, man. CCR wasn't a high school band anymore. They were on top and had to make sure they stay there.
All in all: if they wanted to have more say, which of course isn't wrong, they needed something to table but at this point they hadn't. They should have just waited until their hands weren't empty.  
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

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To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 01:35:35 PM »

To say their songs are average at best is just your opinion.



Nope, just mere fact ! Listen to something like "Tearin' up the country", that's high school level.



Quote
Of course they aren't as good as Fogerty's stuff

If you are in a band like CCR and be on top at that time, you better make sure that your product is at least somehwat as good as your previous stuff. That's your obligation. And if you're not able to do that, then let Fogerty go on as before. It's kinda like 'Hey Brian, let's forget about "Still I dream of it", I wrote a song called "Kona cost".' And with CCR at that moment, success showed that it wasn't the worst way to rely on Fogerty.
Again, that's nothing against Cook and Clifford as musicians. I respect them very much, because they had a great sound together, but the point is something else entirely.

If they wanted to have more say in business decisions - which I can totally understand - it should be clear to them that they can't expect John letting them decide about what his songs, his arrangements and his productions should sound like. So it's just a logical thought that they would have to write some songs on their own. It's another thing if Fogerty shouldn't have refused to play lead guitar on their songs. I think he should've done that in a matter of collegiality. It's business, man. CCR wasn't a high school band anymore. They were on top and had to make sure they stay there.
All in all: if they wanted to have more say, which of course isn't wrong, they needed something to table but at this point they hadn't. They should have just waited until their hands weren't empty.  


I'm sorry, but your feelings on Doug and Stu's Mardi Gras songs ARE your opinion. There's no way around it. It's a fact! it's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your opinion. Please refrain from suggesting your opinion is a fact because it is not.

My OPINION on the songs in question is: once you remove the Fogerty comparison, they aren't bad at all! Tearing Up The Country is a stomper of a song. Even Fogerty has said that if is was someone like Howlin Wolf who wrote it he'd love it.

And please keep in mind: the Mardi Gras story goes both ways: Doug and Stu claim Fogerty forced them into it or they'd have no album (which probably would have been the best choice) while Fogerty claims they wanted all the credit and glory. But whatever, history is what it is and there is no law that says I can't like the material on that album.


BTW, I think Still I Dream Of It is a horrid song while Kona Coast is at least catchy and has a good beat, so it's different strokes for different folks. Please learn to live with it.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:38:14 PM by Erik H » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 01:42:44 PM »


I'm sorry, but your feelings on Doug and Stu's Mardi Gras songs ARE your opinion. There's no way around it. It's a fact! it's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your opinion. Please refrain from suggesting your opinion is a fact because it is not.




No, it's not my opinion. I listen to "Door to door" in a while, as well as "Tearin' up the country" or "Sail away". But music isn't all taste, it's quality. And these songs are not quality material. Easy.
Don't interchange opinion with fact. I really like to listen to "Summer in paradise" and like many parts of it but that won't make that a good album. It's material just isn't quality stuff. And same goes for the songs by Doug and Stu. The songs don't have any substance. That doesn't mean you can't like them (I would never tell anybody what to like and what not to like). But there's a difference between that and a musical point of view. 'nuff said
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a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 01:47:36 PM »

"Nuff said"Huh

Are you insane?

You mean to tell me YOU are the God in the sky who knows what constitutes quality to the point where your opinion is fact?

WTF?
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« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 01:49:52 PM »

Lock the door, sun's a fallin'.
Poke the fire, don't let the cold in.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.

Found a boat to make the break in.
Filled with hope 'bout the step I'm takin'.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.

Spent a long time list'ning to the captain of the sea,
Shoutin' orders to his crew; No one hears but me.

Cast away, tide's a runnin'
Hoist the sail, strong wind's comin'.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.

Spent a long time list'ning to the captain of the sea,
Shoutin' orders to his crew; No one hears but me.

Lock the door, sun's a fallin'.
Poke the fire, don't let the cold in.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life


So, you can tell me that, beyond any reasonable doubt, the above lyrics are completely lacking in any sort of quality whatsoever?

If VDP had written those lyrics you'd consider them genius (my opinion)
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 02:07:01 PM »

Doug and Stu were one of the best rhythm sections in the biz. John was the star but the guys behind him made the songs cook.

I don't disagree... however; the people he's going to make money off of don't care one way or the other.  I'm not saying it's right... I'm just saying lots of people do the same thing.  The money got to him, he probably had the seed planted by a wife/girlfriend/manager or something. 
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 02:07:47 PM »

I think Fogerty needs to GROW UP and put his differences with Doug and Stu aside. Even if they don't ever play together again, the least JF can do is drop his 40 year old grudge.

If he didn't with his brother... he likely won't with these guys.
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 02:37:58 PM »

Lock the door, sun's a fallin'.
Poke the fire, don't let the cold in.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.

Found a boat to make the break in.
Filled with hope 'bout the step I'm takin'.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.

Spent a long time list'ning to the captain of the sea,
Shoutin' orders to his crew; No one hears but me.

Cast away, tide's a runnin'
Hoist the sail, strong wind's comin'.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.

Spent a long time list'ning to the captain of the sea,
Shoutin' orders to his crew; No one hears but me.

Lock the door, sun's a fallin'.
Poke the fire, don't let the cold in.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life.
Gonna try to sail away from the rest of my life


So, you can tell me that, beyond any reasonable doubt, the above lyrics are completely lacking in any sort of quality whatsoever?

If VDP had written those lyrics you'd consider them genius (my opinion)

Why even talk about lyrics? They're by far the least important part of a song. Fogerty had some pretty bad lyrics himself.

"Jody's gonna get reliiiiiiiiiiiiigiooooooon alllllllllll niiiiiiiiiiiiiiight looooooooooooooong"

It's not surprising that a drummer and bassist who didn't write much don't write songs with the same qualities as the guy who wrote all the songs.

But it's all like. Opinions, man.  Razz
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2012, 02:47:06 PM »

Well, the lyrics are part of the song though. I just posted those lyrics because I like them and they go good with the melody and the playing on the track is good, so it all works for me.... I would consider this an example of quality or craftsmanship,  or whatever the hell word works. All those words are basically expressing an opinion anyhow.

I think we get too carried away as rock fans about who wrote what and credits etc.... The genius of the composition is not exactly why we love a song or an album or a band. There are many many factors.

I happen to think most of the songs on Pendulum aren't that great, or are lacking, or weren't up to JF's usual standards. However the band play like motherFers and they are so tight and there's a ferocity to the playing  (and JF's singing) on that album that just elevated the material well beyond whatever it was when Fogerty sat down and plucked out the chords and wrote the lyrics.

I just have a problem when someone tells me my opinion is dead wrong because they know the difference between something that is quality and something that is crap but sounds good (NOT a direct quote) .... I mean, HUH?Huh?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 02:49:26 PM by Erik H » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2012, 10:44:20 PM »


I'm sorry, but your feelings on Doug and Stu's Mardi Gras songs ARE your opinion. There's no way around it. It's a fact! it's your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your opinion. Please refrain from suggesting your opinion is a fact because it is not.




No, it's not my opinion. I listen to "Door to door" in a while, as well as "Tearin' up the country" or "Sail away". But music isn't all taste, it's quality. And these songs are not quality material. Easy.
Don't interchange opinion with fact. I really like to listen to "Summer in paradise" and like many parts of it but that won't make that a good album. It's material just isn't quality stuff. And same goes for the songs by Doug and Stu. The songs don't have any substance. That doesn't mean you can't like them (I would never tell anybody what to like and what not to like). But there's a difference between that and a musical point of view. 'nuff said
You wouldn't happen to frequent another board as midnightx or Doc, would you?
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