What's VDP's problem?

[Cam Mott]

I'm not sure that disclaimer for Part 2 of "American Family" was on the first broadcast or the rerun.  The disclaimer was at the request of Van Dyke, not Brian Wilson. 

The disclaimer was present on the first broadcast of Part 2 (this was the only time I watched AN AMERICAN FAMILY). While Parks may have voiced his disapproval, which may have contributed to the demand for the disclaimer (if, in fact, Parks had seen the film prior to broadcast or read the script), it was definitely reported on that Brian (via Melinda) was very unhappy with how his character was portrayed, especially in relation to the character of Dennis. The result, as reported, was the addition of the disclaimer. Subsequently, Parks demanded that the name of his character be changed or he would sue. This is how the character of "Van" (as he was referred to in the initial broadcast) became "Tommy".

It just seems funny to me that people would be consultants but not be given a script until after production and post-production and not until just/day before the airing when it was too late to consult. And then given a script for half and not the other. Something is just wrong with that story, just sounds like fan invented baloney.

[Mr. Cohen]

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

And yeah, I know Van Dyke is straight. That doesn't have anything to do with how he's treated, and what the motivations of that treatment are. Which is that he's not macho, he's smart, and he's ... different. And so he is bullied by the posters here. Can't have anyone unusual or different polluting those all-American Beach Boys. After all, they're America's band. Ain't nothing so American as loving those girls. Get it? Girls. Mike has been married how many times? God, what a stud! Wish I could have been married that many times!

Tripled quoted for accuracy. Make a post about Brian being gay and see what happens.

[Ron]

Van Dyke isn't gay.  Brian Wilson isn't macho.  Al Jardine isn't macho. 

Brian Wilson, and Al Jardine, act like men, however.  Van Dyke? Notsomuch. 

You don't have to be 'macho' to be a man. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm not sure that disclaimer for Part 2 of "American Family" was on the first broadcast or the rerun.

No - before the second part on the first showing.

The disclaimer was at the request of Van Dyke, not Brian Wilson. 

The disclaimer was at the request of Brian's management. The renaming of the VDP character was at the request of VDP and his legal team.

I remember reading a story about the movie when it was first broadcast that described Brian's wife being on the set of the movie and not happy with the scenes that were being shot for Part 2.  But she didn't do anything about it.  She also had script approval...

No, she didn't. Fact. The article you read was wrong.

Van Dyke's character seemed to represent multiple people who were around during that time.  It saves on story development/screen time to do it that way, but I can see how he might have been upset. 

The VDP character used well-known quotes from Van Dyke (and no-one else), spoken in his idiosyncratic style.

[Andrew G. Doe]

A very basic question:

Why didn't Van contribute an essay for the Smile Sessions book?  Did he just want to take a back seat with this and let Brian get all the 'glory' for it? He was in the spotlight briefly and was interviewed back in '04 for BWPS and even showed up for the RFH Smile show in London to a standing ovation. Why did he maintain a somewhat low profile this time for this Beach Boys Smile release?

Another possibility ... Maybe Van did contribute an essay for the Smile Sessions box.  Maybe parts of it sounded like his recent diatribe and he was asked to modify it but he refused, causing it to be rejected.

Maybe. Maybe not. The facts will emerge in due course.

[Aegir]

Van Dyke isn't gay.  Brian Wilson isn't macho.  Al Jardine isn't macho. 

Brian Wilson, and Al Jardine, act like men, however.  Van Dyke? Notsomuch. 

You don't have to be 'macho' to be a man. 

how does a man act, in your opinion, compared to a woman?

[Disney Boy (1985)]

So just to clear things up, if anyone here were to be represented by an actor in a television documentary and portrayed as a complete moron, you'd all just shrug and be happy with that? It's easy to say VDP should be more 'macho' re these type of things we've been discussing, but imagine if the shoe was on the other foot (namely your own)...

[Autotune]

There's seems to be an agreement here that Van Dyke's recent attack was a result of the TV series. That's not the case. He's been saying things like that for decades. Perhaps more recent issues fueled his rant, but he's singing pretty much e same song.

[MBE]

There's seems to be an agreement here that Van Dyke's recent attack was a result of the TV series. That's not the case. He's been saying things like that for decades. Perhaps more recent issues fueled his rant, but he's singing pretty much e same song.

It's not to do with now but I mentioned it as when my view changed of him. Not because of a dumb movie, not that he had his name taken off, but because I don't like his tone since then.  This has nothing to do with movies, music, sessions, records, politics, etc.  He could be the nicest guy on earth, and I am just never will agree with how he publically has spoke of The Beach Boys since that time.

[endofposts]

I'm not sure that disclaimer for Part 2 of "American Family" was on the first broadcast or the rerun.

No - before the second part on the first showing.

The disclaimer was at the request of Van Dyke, not Brian Wilson. 

The disclaimer was at the request of Brian's management. The renaming of the VDP character was at the request of VDP and his legal team.

I remember reading a story about the movie when it was first broadcast that described Brian's wife being on the set of the movie and not happy with the scenes that were being shot for Part 2.  But she didn't do anything about it.  She also had script approval...

No, she didn't. Fact. The article you read was wrong.

Van Dyke's character seemed to represent multiple people who were around during that time.  It saves on story development/screen time to do it that way, but I can see how he might have been upset. 

The VDP character used well-known quotes from Van Dyke (and no-one else), spoken in his idiosyncratic style.

The article was in the LA Weekly.  I read it back when, so my memory may be faulty.  But it described both Melinda and Brian being on the set of the movie and Brian getting upset and leaving, and Melinda having some heated words with the producer or director.  Since movies are planned in advance and it would cost a lot of money to change anything at that point, she didn't get her way.  They did sign off on the project, though, along with Mike, so they had to have known it might not be flattering to Brian.  I've never been sure why Brian and his team have been keen for years to have a biopic made about him, since a lot of things known about him aren't flattering.  I also haven't seen the TV miniseries since it first came out.  It struck me that Brian's entourage from the Smle period was condensed to far fewer people.  It could be the Loren Schwartz character I'm thinking of.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Does anyone else remember the night it premiered, a news channel in LA had a featured story with Mike and a bunch of other old bald guys having a viewing party at his house?

I remember they showed Mike watching it kinda shaking his head and he was generally dismissive of it when they talked to him.

Am I imagining this?

[Cam Mott]

how does a man act, in your opinion, compared to a woman?

More dickish.

[Amy B.]

Doesn't VDP just have an overall low opinion of Mike that affects his perception of all things Mike is involved in? I mean, certainly there are "little" incidents that have added up over the years. Mike questioning the "over and over" line wasn't a huge offense in itself. But then there was that story about VDP needing to be reimbursed and Mike giving him a phone number that was no longer in service. Then there was the TV movie. Then there were the comments about druggies. These things add up to "I don't like that Mike Love guy. He has been a jerk numerous times, so I don't like him." So now the BBs are reuniting, and maybe VDP just can't see why it might be a positive experience.

[Autotune]

Doesn't VDP just have an overall low opinion of Mike that affects his perception of all things Mike is involved in? I mean, certainly there are "little" incidents that have added up over the years. Mike questioning the "over and over" line wasn't a huge offense in itself. But then there was that story about VDP needing to be reimbursed and Mike giving him a phone number that was no longer in service. Then there was the TV movie. Then there were the comments about druggies. These things add up to "I don't like that Mike Love guy. He has been a jerk numerous times, so I don't like him." So now the BBs are reuniting, and maybe VDP just can't see why it might be a positive experience.

The reimbursment story happened in 1991-2. VDP's rant was over 20 years old by then.

[Peter Reum]

Van Dyke considered himself a contracted employee of Brian's for Smile. His loyalty was to Brian. Mike was upset because Brian promised before Pet Sounds that he would write the album after Pet Sounds with Mike. Brian decided to write with Van instead. Mike felt Brian had not kept his promise. I think the whole Van/Mike argument is a straw man issue....Mike's beef was with Brian. Brian knew he had broken his commitment. It is no coincidence that the first single after Heroes was a BW/ML composition, Gettin' Hungry...issued under the name Brian Wilson and Mike Love. It is also no coincidence that nearly all the tunes on Wild Honey are Brian Wilson/ Mike Love songs. Brian felt he had to make his promise good to Mike.

[Tristero]

Van Dyke considered himself a contracted employee of Brian's for Smile. His loyalty was to Brian. Mike was upset because Brian promised before Pet Sounds that he would write the album after Pet Sounds with Mike. Brian decided to write with Van instead. Mike felt Brian had not kept his promise. I think the whole Van/Mike argument is a straw man issue....Mike's beef was with Brian. Brian knew he had broken his commitment. It is no coincidence that the first single after Heroes was a BW/ML composition, Gettin' Hungry...issued under the name Brian Wilson and Mike Love. It is also no coincidence that nearly all the tunes on Wild Honey are Brian Wilson/ Mike Love songs. Brian felt he had to make his promise good to Mike.

Thanks for this perspective.  I think this story tells us a lot about the roots of Mike's unhappiness with the Smile project.  When I look at it from his perspective--coming back from a successful tour of England to hear these bizarre, fragmentary snippets that would be difficult to replicate on stage--it's not at all surprising that Mike wasn't pleased.  I also wonder if some of VDP's animosity towards Mike is misdirected disappointment with Brian for not sticking up for him more.

[The Heartical Don]

Van Dyke considered himself a contracted employee of Brian's for Smile. His loyalty was to Brian. Mike was upset because Brian promised before Pet Sounds that he would write the album after Pet Sounds with Mike. Brian decided to write with Van instead. Mike felt Brian had not kept his promise. I think the whole Van/Mike argument is a straw man issue....Mike's beef was with Brian. Brian knew he had broken his commitment. It is no coincidence that the first single after Heroes was a BW/ML composition, Gettin' Hungry...issued under the name Brian Wilson and Mike Love. It is also no coincidence that nearly all the tunes on Wild Honey are Brian Wilson/ Mike Love songs. Brian felt he had to make his promise good to Mike.

Thank you from me too, Peter. Yours is a simple and highly credible perspective.

[jardine (no relation]

can someone fill me in on exactly how long that 1966 tour last, and the dates? I'm just interested in what exactly might have occurred in brian-vanland while mike and the boys were off on their successful tour--what exactly did they come back to find?

[Andrew G. Doe]

can someone fill me in on exactly how long that 1966 tour last, and the dates? I'm just interested in what exactly might have occurred in brian-vanland while mike and the boys were off on their successful tour--what exactly did they come back to find?

Gigs & sessions 1966

[ontor pertawst]

That typically VDP turn of phrase about Mammon started looping in my head, and before you knew it:

http://youtu.be/6oHJY3HQalQ

I kid because I love!

(Ps. Hi, folks!)

[Disney Boy (1985)]

On the subject of Brian and Mike writing together (and if we can discuss this without the threat of legal action), aside from Wouldn't It Be Nice (when he was supposedly ringing Brian up from Japan or somewhere secretly suggesting lines over the phone) which other BB songs have dubious court-ordered Mike Love writing credits (i.e. ones where it's questionable whether he was actually involved)?

[Autotune]

On the subject of Brian and Mike writing together (and if we can discuss this without the threat of legal action), aside from Wouldn't It Be Nice (when he was supposedly ringing Brian up from Japan or somewhere secretly suggesting lines over the phone) which other BB songs have dubious court-ordered Mike Love writing credits (i.e. ones where it's questionable whether he was actually involved)?

I think Mike told the truth as he remembered it regarding the songwriting issue. The one aspect to be discussed is if coming up with a hook or a phrase is enough for getting songwriting credit. And after that, how's it gonna be split.

We don't know how credits are split. But we do know, for instance, that Carl received songwriting credit for coming up with the guitar riff to Dance Dance Dance. In the same vein, Mike feels entitled to songwriting credit for having come up with the "she's real fine" and the "giddy up" in 409; he also fought for credit on Help Me Rhonda, having come up with the first line. Or the tag line in WIBN. The matter of discussion (and it has been thoroughly discussed here and elsewhere), is just how much and what type of input will be credit-worthy.

If you ask me, I'll say two things:

1. To each his own
2. Brian was screwed by his lawyers, refusing an out-court-agreement for 750.000 and making him go to court instead

[Cam Mott]

We can debate what credit was due but none of us heard the evidence so it is all speculation. Mike didn't ask for any amount of credit, only credit where the jury heard the evidence and decided credit was due. Except that he did try to award himself a very low ball credit with that settlement. The amount of credit was determined by the jury. I guess we should argue with the jury.

[debonbon]

The real mistake was putting Brian on he stand, he lost the case for himself.

[Autotune]

The real mistake was putting Brian on he stand, he lost the case for himself.

Well, Mike was proven right. The real mistake was denying him credit for his contributions.
But Brian's lawyers strategy was misled, that's also right.