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Author Topic: Carl Wilson: the objector to the Vietnam War  (Read 3854 times)
EthanJClarke93
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« on: February 18, 2012, 07:36:05 PM »

What's the full story about Carl Wilson and Vietnam??
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Dunderhead
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2012, 08:32:52 PM »

Didn't he get arrested? I think that was the official reason they dropped out of Monterey Pop, because Carl was to upset to sing. So he must have been arrested in May or June '67.
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metal flake paint
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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2012, 09:04:55 PM »

This may shed a bit more light:

http://reasonabledoubt.org/index.php/criminallawblog/entry/january-3-1967-beach-boy-carl-wilson-becomes-draft-dodger-today-in-crime-history
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Alan Smith
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2012, 09:17:56 PM »

Nice one, Metal Flake Paint, a detailed read.

As for the Monterey thing, the Gaines book notes the official story for not playing was related to "Carl's personal problems", but Gaines is pretty clear the group was scared that they were out of touch with the music scene of the day. 

In the Tom Nolan R/S article, Carl is quoted saying Brian was on the Monterey board and the concept of the gig kept changing so Brian decided to pull out - Carl also expressed thoughts that Brian may have coped some hostility re the surfing thing. 
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CarCrazyCutie
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2012, 10:02:47 PM »

Poor Carl Cry Probably the last person on this planet that should have ever been arrested.
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2012, 10:44:16 PM »

Poor Carl Cry Probably the last person on this planet that should have ever been arrested.

Yeah, definitely an unpleasant experience, but on the bright-side, he managed to live an extraordinary life versus being shipped home from Vietnam or some other locale dead, incapacitated or mentally damaged.
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Dunderhead
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2012, 12:08:15 AM »

Nice one, Metal Flake Paint, a detailed read.

As for the Monterey thing, the Gaines book notes the official story for not playing was related to "Carl's personal problems", but Gaines is pretty clear the group was scared that they were out of touch with the music scene of the day. 

In the Tom Nolan R/S article, Carl is quoted saying Brian was on the Monterey board and the concept of the gig kept changing so Brian decided to pull out - Carl also expressed thoughts that Brian may have coped some hostility re the surfing thing. 

The Goodbye Surfing article does mention that as one of the reasons. But you're right in saying it's a complicated incident with a few different factors involved.

Does anyone know if Carl was philosophically a pacifist?
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2012, 12:24:26 AM »

Nice one, Metal Flake Paint, a detailed read.

As for the Monterey thing, the Gaines book notes the official story for not playing was related to "Carl's personal problems", but Gaines is pretty clear the group was scared that they were out of touch with the music scene of the day. 

In the Tom Nolan R/S article, Carl is quoted saying Brian was on the Monterey board and the concept of the gig kept changing so Brian decided to pull out - Carl also expressed thoughts that Brian may have coped some hostility re the surfing thing. 

The Goodbye Surfing article does mention that as one of the reasons. But you're right in saying it's a complicated incident with a few different factors involved.

Does anyone know if Carl was philosophically a pacifist?
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that he generally was but I can't seem to remember (or find) the citation to back that up.
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 07:10:25 AM »

Carl tells New Musical Express "My duty to God is far greater than any moral demand. I got a notice to report for a physical and I never got round to thinking about it and it never came up. Anyway, one day it did come up and I thought, 'OK, what's my position on this?' So I applied [to be a] Conscientious Objector on religious grounds. We ended up in court many times in a six-year period. I spent a lot of money on the thing."
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 07:25:36 AM by BananaLouie » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 07:16:51 AM »

Nice one, Metal Flake Paint, a detailed read.

As for the Monterey thing, the Gaines book notes the official story for not playing was related to "Carl's personal problems", but Gaines is pretty clear the group was scared that they were out of touch with the music scene of the day.  

In the Tom Nolan R/S article, Carl is quoted saying Brian was on the Monterey board and the concept of the gig kept changing so Brian decided to pull out - Carl also expressed thoughts that Brian may have coped some hostility re the surfing thing.  

The Goodbye Surfing article does mention that as one of the reasons. But you're right in saying it's a complicated incident with a few different factors involved.

Does anyone know if Carl was philosophically a pacifist?
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that he generally was but I can't seem to remember (or find) the citation to back that up.

The draft was so wildly biased in favor of excluding college students, who got an automatic deferral, with kids taking "basket weaving" for majors just to avoid Vietnam.  At the time of Carl's arrest, however I was in high school, anticipating seeing the Boys for the 1st time in Boston on April 28 of that week in 1967.  Big applause when Carl took the stage.

On that old 1967, Thanksgiving concert series poster on YouTube, cobbled concert on audio, with a ink on this board,  Mike makes a comment about Carls's singing being very "conscientious." Likely related to his application for Conscientious Objector.

The standard for conscientious objector was very high, and the draft people would interview neighbors and friends, former employees,  etc.  They went to a great deal of trouble to validate whether you were grounded in values you were using as a defense to military service.  My impression of Carl is that he probably could have been truly and authentically been classified as a pacifist, which would have excluded him to serve in a military.  They probably wanted to make an example of his being high-profile, but still  subject to the US laws, despite his status as a celebrity.  The appeal did not work always.  

A guy I knew, filed as a CO, and was eventually drafted, and was sent to Basic Training in the Army, despite his CO application with scores of letters in support of his pacifist status, only to have his appeal come through, as he completed enough service to be considered a veteran, for benefit purposes, when he was finally discharged.  So, in his instance, the joke was on the draft board, never having gone to Nam, then, going to college on the GI Bill.

The article cited above looks pretty accurate to me.  
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 08:34:48 AM by filledeplage » Logged
I. Spaceman
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2012, 09:15:26 AM »

Poor Carl Cry Probably the last person on this planet that should have ever been arrested.

I think Martin Luther King Jr. might come in a few places ahead of Carl on that score.
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EthanJClarke93
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2012, 11:18:10 AM »

I Could imagine what his mug-shot looks like, if he has one lol
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 09:28:31 PM »

I don't understand why carl didn't show up to any of the community service things he was court ordered to, though. He didn't have to go through years of legal trouble if he just showed up for something.
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MBE
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 09:45:06 PM »

I respect Carl on this. He gave so much to so many people, and if he morally couldn't justify it I understand. I am not anti millitary by any means, I think our armed forces are largely heroic, but I don't think I could ever kill either.
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Ron
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 11:12:24 PM »

I don't understand why carl didn't show up to any of the community service things he was court ordered to, though. He didn't have to go through years of legal trouble if he just showed up for something.

I suppose he just didn't take it very seriously, a lot of times people do things like and it ends up just making things so much worse for them, Lindsey Lohan is a good current example, the girl got a DUI about 6 years ago, hasn't really broken any laws since, but has been in ALL KINDS of trouble because she screws up probation, shows up late for court, doesn't do community service on time, etc. and has made her own life living hell, when it would have been taken care of in 6 months.

When I turned 18, I forgot to register for the selective service.  If you're brought up and really don't have any connection to the military, you just don't think or really even care at that point in your life about any of that. 

I respect Carl for the CO thing.  I support the military, I'm not a war monger but I'm seriously down with the boys and girls out there representing the good 'ol Red White and Blue...

but if someone walks the walk and talks the talk like Carl did, I think they should be allowed to serve the country in other ways, i.e. community service.  Of course now we don't have to worry about all that.  Carl was a sweetheart of a human being, I see no hypocrisy in his Conscientious Objector status. 

Same thing with Lennon.  he was against ALL wars, not just the flavor of the moment the liberals of the time were against.  No hypocrisy, he was alright in my book. 
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MBE
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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 11:13:27 PM »

Great post Ron.
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