New album info (as it rolls out...)

[AndrewHickey]

That's a *staggering* difference in compression levels. Might sound a *lot* better then, which would be nice...

[Jonathan Blum]

I think we know pretty well what a Joe Thomas record sounds like.

Have you even bought a single Joe Thomas record that didn't have Brian Wilson on it?

Brian being influenced by whoever he's collaborating with in the studio doesn't mean his collaborators are in control.  "Smile" sounds way more like a Van Dyke Parks record than "All Summer Long" does -- doesn't stop it being a Brian Wilson record.  Hell, you could argue that Sunflower sounds like a "Stephen Desper record", there's a clear difference in its sound; that might be a better comparison to Thomas' technical role in recording...

Bottom line is, when I listen to the new stuff, I hear a hell of a lot of Brian Wilson, while you seem to be seizing on the bits that remind you of your least favorite (Wilson-and-)Thomas work and ignoring the rest.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[elnombre]

First off thanks DonnyL for a great post about growing up loving the BB, I understand it's a shame that TWGMTR is not an actual BW production.

Care to share your source for this unequivocal statement ?

Just to clarify, are both of you indicating that Joe Thomas is credited as engineer on the album?

Yes, he is.

I must say this is the only time I've ever seen an engineer usurp the producer in such a way on a Beach Boys album.  Very clever.

Apologies for my earlier comments, I hadn't realized you were there in the studio to personally witness Brian being usurped and report this fact back to us with such authority.

Unless you're simply touting your personal bias and baseless assumption as some sort of verifiable fact, but who would be that arrogant?

[EgoHanger1966]

Glad the album isn't (totally) brickwalled like the single!

[Andy B]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

They have, but there have been some features that have been constant in all of them. He tends to use the drums in interesting ways -- very rarely after about 1964 or so do you get him using a conventional drum kit playing standard patterns. In particular there's *far* less use of cymbal and hi-hat in drum parts on records Brian's produced than is normal.

He also has a fondness for two particular bass sounds. One is a trebly, hard sound, which he uses when he's got a prominent, melodic bass line on ballads (think much of Pet Sounds but also stuff like Everything I Need), while the other is a 'farting' sound, often played by an instrument other than a bass guitar but in the bass register (think the sax on the Honeys records, the bass harmonica on Friends or much of the Getting In Over My Head album, the moog on Love You).

Other things he does a lot might fall into the categories of songwriting or arrangement as much as production, but include things like having a tag which has completely new musical material, having multiple lead vocalists for songs, and having vocal arrangements that consist of very freely-moving lines at the top and bottom, with three-part block harmony moving in parallel in the middle.

These things have been in Brian's productions for pretty much all of his career. Some of them are evident on the songs from the new album that I've heard, others aren't.

However, there's *also* been a relatively consistent sonic ambience (for want of a better term) on most of Brian's solo recordings, but how much of that is him and how much is Mark Linnet is open to question, though the demos recorded with Andy Paley and Scott Bennett have something of the same quality. That sonic ambience isn't present on this album. Which is to be expected -- Brian's working with different people now.

Incidentally, according to Wikipedia, Thomas' official title is 'recording supervisor', which makes sense.

Yeah i totally agree.

And strangely i do hear most of these things on this new album. Granted the bass lines seem less fat, but listen to FTTBA and you hear that twangy trebly bass.

Other common Brianisms are the percussive use of piano or keyboard either in quarter notes, eighth notes or triplet. He very rarely has frilly keyboard parts. That has always been there. And again thats all over this new record - Isn't It Time for example.

The thing with all producers is that they all have these little tools and devices that they always return to. But aesthetically their records will change over the years. There is no surprise for me that this new Beach Boys album sounds the way it does. But i would argue forever that this is as much a Brian Wilson produced record as Love You was.

[Jonathan Blum]

It's about people - individuals - having an opinion and taking advantage of a message board to express it. What causes the hard feelings are people not respecting opinions they don't agree with, and trying to prove an opinion as being wrong.

There's personal opinions ("I don't like the style"), and then there's claims of fact ("therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show").  I don't think anyone's failing to respect the first, it's the second that they're saying really doesn't stand up.

Regards,
Jon Blum

[Shady]

How can you not LOVE "Beaches in Mind"

What a fun song, GO Mike!

[Shady]

The guy who leaked the album took this picture, the CD looks nice

[Heysaboda]

What did Chuck Britz do? What did Larry Levine do? What did Steve Desper do? What did Carl Wilson do? What did Andy Paley do? What did Scott Bennett do?

They all helped Brian realize his vision. Sometimes they had a vision of their own that they added to his. Sometimes they mixed the records for him. Sometimes they pulled together the loose ends that Brian couldn't be bothered to. Steve's records for the Boys sound significantly different than their work before or after. But no one calls them records produced by Steve Desper. The ideas and directions for the albums came from Brian and the band. Now, not everyone likes Joe's sound or approach, but I don't see reason that his relationship with Brian is significantly different, at least this time around.

http://andrewromano.tumblr.com/joethomasbeachboys

Great post, Wirestone, and thanks for posting the Tumblr link.  INCREDIBLE interview!

Joe: "Let’s go back now three years maybe… a year after that. After he (Brian) said that, I didn’t hear from him for another year. He called me from Australia. It was kind of funny. He was talking about the fact he believed that the toilets flushed the opposite way than they did here above, in the northern hemisphere. And he wanted to know if I had any info on whether that was true or not. "

LOL!!!!

Brian is such a complete riot!!!!!

 

[elnombre]

It's about people - individuals - having an opinion and taking advantage of a message board to express it. What causes the hard feelings are people not respecting opinions they don't agree with, and trying to prove an opinion as being wrong.

There's personal opinions ("I don't like the style"), and then there's claims of fact ("therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show").  I don't think anyone's failing to respect the first, it's the second that they're saying really doesn't stand up.

Regards,
Jon Blum

Spot on.

[DonnyL]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

hallmarks of typical BW productions (minus the obvious vocal arrangement elements) --

* lack of cymbals (especially hi-hats)

* sparse and/or 'orchestral' drum patterns

* unusual use of percussion

* unique tags / fades

* fuzz / sax / bass harmonica / moog -type baritone sounds

* ethereal string / keyboard / other instrument (flutes w/ vibes) type 'pads'

* tape delay

* boogie-woogie-type piano rhythms

* surprising/unexpected twists and turns

* surprising/unexpected rumination on the same pattern(s)

* juxtaposition of the dumb and the brilliant

[DonnyL]

Have you even bought a single Joe Thomas record that didn't have Brian Wilson on it?

dear lord, no.

[Andy B]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

hallmarks of typical BW productions (minus the obvious vocal arrangement elements) --

* lack of cymbals (especially hi-hats)

* sparse and/or 'orchestral' drum patterns

* unusual use of percussion

* unique tags / fades

* fuzz / sax / bass harmonica / moog -type baritone sounds

* ethereal string / keyboard / other instrument (flutes w/ vibes) type 'pads'

* tape delay

* boogie-woogie-type piano rhythms

* surprising/unexpected twists and turns

* surprising/unexpected rumination on the same pattern(s)

* juxtaposition of the dumb and the brilliant

But would you disagree if i said that most of the above are on the new album. Maybe some more than others, and maybe more so on certain songs. But yes they are there.

(where is the boogie woogie though? i hear no boogie woogie on it)

[DonnyL]

First off thanks DonnyL for a great post about growing up loving the BB, I understand it's a shame that TWGMTR is not an actual BW production.

Care to share your source for this unequivocal statement ?

Just to clarify, are both of you indicating that Joe Thomas is credited as engineer on the album?

Yes, he is.

I must say this is the only time I've ever seen an engineer usurp the producer in such a way on a Beach Boys album.  Very clever.

Apologies for my earlier comments, I hadn't realized you were there in the studio to personally witness Brian being usurped and report this fact back to us with such authority.

Unless you're simply touting your personal bias and baseless assumption as some sort of verifiable fact, but who would be that arrogant?

Perhaps I should re-word every post to make it 100% clear that I am offering an opinion.

"I must say this is the only time I've ever heard an end product that sounds so little like Brian Wilson and so much like one of his collaborators -- in terms of production -- that I am lead to believe Thomas took his engineering role too far into the realm of production, so much that I have formed the opinion that Joe Thomas is more responsible for the production than Brian Wilson is!"

Is that better ?

Does everyone here have Asperger's or are you guys just jerks

[DonnyL]

It's about people - individuals - having an opinion and taking advantage of a message board to express it. What causes the hard feelings are people not respecting opinions they don't agree with, and trying to prove an opinion as being wrong.

There's personal opinions ("I don't like the style"), and then there's claims of fact ("therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show").  I don't think anyone's failing to respect the first, it's the second that they're saying really doesn't stand up.

Regards,
Jon Blum

How about 'Therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show in my opinion" ?

[Sheriff John Stone]

It's about people - individuals - having an opinion and taking advantage of a message board to express it. What causes the hard feelings are people not respecting opinions they don't agree with, and trying to prove an opinion as being wrong.

There's personal opinions ("I don't like the style"), and then there's claims of fact ("therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show").  I don't think anyone's failing to respect the first, it's the second that they're saying really doesn't stand up.

Regards,
Jon Blum

If you take that second statement the way it was written, it would appear to be stated as a fact. But, hopefully, people can UNDERSTAND - meaning, it's understood - that's what he THINKS. Of course it's all the way it is written. How does this sound: "In my opinion, it clearly sounds like Brian wasn't running the show". It's the exact same point, obviously phrased differently.

Many threads/posts ago, somebody said that there should be a disclaimer, automatically showing up on each post, that clearly states: IN MY OPINION. Well, since that's not possible (or maybe it is), in my opinion, it would be helpful if we kept that little phrase in mind when reading somebody's posts. And then destroy them!

EDIT: Wow, DonnyL, we must've been reading each other's minds. In my opinion, of course. We weren't really READING each other's minds....

[Shady]

Man, that really sounds like Carl on "Daybreak", it's like he's there

[SMiLE Brian]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

* surprising/unexpected twists and turns

* surprising/unexpected rumination on the same pattern(s)

* juxtaposition of the dumb and the brilliant

Awesome summary, almost a  " how to guide" for  BW's music and making classics.

[DonnyL]

Can anyone here tell me what a Brian Wilson production is supposed to sound like?

Cause when you listen to every album he's been associated with, they have all been different to the previous one.

hallmarks of typical BW productions (minus the obvious vocal arrangement elements) --

* lack of cymbals (especially hi-hats)

* sparse and/or 'orchestral' drum patterns

* unusual use of percussion

* unique tags / fades

* fuzz / sax / bass harmonica / moog -type baritone sounds

* ethereal string / keyboard / other instrument (flutes w/ vibes) type 'pads'

* tape delay

* boogie-woogie-type piano rhythms

* surprising/unexpected twists and turns

* surprising/unexpected rumination on the same pattern(s)

* juxtaposition of the dumb and the brilliant

But would you disagree if i said that most of the above are on the new album. Maybe some more than others, and maybe more so on certain songs. But yes they are there.

(where is the boogie woogie though? i hear no boogie woogie on it)

Personally, I don't really hear these elements much (a little here and there).

And I'd like to add one more -- the one that really seems to be missing: SOUND BLISS.

[EgoHanger1966]

Why does an album entitled "That's Why God Made The Radio" need to have a sticker on it telling the buyer that it includes "the new hit single That's Why God Made The Radio"?

[b00ts]

First off thanks DonnyL for a great post about growing up loving the BB, I understand it's a shame that TWGMTR is not an actual BW production.

Care to share your source for this unequivocal statement ?

Just to clarify, are both of you indicating that Joe Thomas is credited as engineer on the album?

Yes, he is.

I must say this is the only time I've ever seen an engineer usurp the producer in such a way on a Beach Boys album.  Very clever.

Apologies for my earlier comments, I hadn't realized you were there in the studio to personally witness Brian being usurped and report this fact back to us with such authority.

Unless you're simply touting your personal bias and baseless assumption as some sort of verifiable fact, but who would be that arrogant?

Perhaps I should re-word every post to make it 100% clear that I am offering an opinion.

"I must say this is the only time I've ever heard an end product that sounds so little like Brian Wilson and so much like one of his collaborators -- in terms of production -- that I am lead to believe Thomas took his engineering role too far into the realm of production, so much that I have formed the opinion that Joe Thomas is more responsible for the production than Brian Wilson is!"

Is that better ?

Does everyone here have Asperger's or are you guys just jerks

I don't know, I think people are defensively interpreting your posts as a threat against the new album. Perhaps it won't actually come out if you keep this up.

[Shady]

Why does an album entitled "That's Why God Made The Radio" need to have a sticker on it telling the buyer that it includes "the new hit single That's Why God Made The Radio"?

 

[Jonathan Blum]

There's personal opinions ("I don't like the style"), and then there's claims of fact ("therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show").  I don't think anyone's failing to respect the first, it's the second that they're saying really doesn't stand up.

If you take that second statement the way it was written, it would appear to be stated as a fact. But, hopefully, people can UNDERSTAND - meaning, it's understood - that's what he THINKS. Of course it's all the way it is written.[/quote]

Yup -- and I'd say it's the way it's written which is what's getting DonnyL so much grief.  If it didn't sound like he was saying "well, it's only my opinion, but if you don't think Brian's been obviously usurped you're clearly blind or deluding yourself", the opinion bit might seem more heartfelt...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Andy B]

Personally, I don't really hear these elements much (a little here and there).

And I'd like to add one more -- the one that really seems to be missing: SOUND BLISS.

Yeah it's true on some of the tracks, the BW elements are somewhat lacking, but listen to From There To Back Again. Total SOUND BLISS. All the way through. It's one giant bliss out track. Easily the most beautiful BW tune he's done in an absolute age.

[DonnyL]

It's about people - individuals - having an opinion and taking advantage of a message board to express it. What causes the hard feelings are people not respecting opinions they don't agree with, and trying to prove an opinion as being wrong.

There's personal opinions ("I don't like the style"), and then there's claims of fact ("therefore Brian clearly wasn't running the show").  I don't think anyone's failing to respect the first, it's the second that they're saying really doesn't stand up.

Regards,
Jon Blum

If you take that second statement the way it was written, it would appear to be stated as a fact. But, hopefully, people can UNDERSTAND - meaning, it's understood - that's what he THINKS. Of course it's all the way it is written. How does this sound: "In my opinion, it clearly sounds like Brian wasn't running the show". It's the exact same point, obviously phrased differently.

Many threads/posts ago, somebody said that there should be a disclaimer, automatically showing up on each post, that clearly states: IN MY OPINION. Well, since that's not possible (or maybe it is), in my opinion, it would be helpful if we kept that little phrase in mind when reading somebody's posts. And then destroy them!

EDIT: Wow, DonnyL, we must've been reading each other's minds. In my opinion, of course. We weren't really READING each other's minds....

thanks for understanding !

But I don't see how you can say we were reading each others' minds.  First of all, mind reading is technically not possible.  Have you researched this at all and actually verified anything before you go around posting things like that?  I mean, there is some evidence to suggest astral projection is possible, but mind-reading is occult mumbo-jumbo at best.

HA !