So Sad About BB's Career After "Smile" Incident :'[

[pixletwin]

For the record, I love both Honey Pies, Yer Blues, and everything "of those indian harrison songs lol".

i like honey pie , and all the harisson songs too i'm just pointing out their weaker songs .

What exactly do you find "weak" about them?

honey pie..when i'm 64..maggy mae it's all granny music lol

So you are 14 then.

my age doesnt matter..whether i was 14 or not, age is just a number.

In your case it matters a great deal I'm afraid because it could provide a much needed context when reading your posts. I don't mean that to be rude either. Sometimes I find your posts very thoughtful. At other times I find them a bit shallow and erratic. Knowing your age would help us understand you better.

[Paulos]

So what exactly is wrong with 'granny music' NG? I assume you are referring to music made in the period 1920-1950, when lots of brilliant music was actually made? What a tool. LOL    LOL

[Newguy562]

For the record, I love both Honey Pies, Yer Blues, and everything "of those indian harrison songs lol".

i like honey pie , and all the harisson songs too i'm just pointing out their weaker songs .

What exactly do you find "weak" about them?

honey pie..when i'm 64..maggy mae it's all granny music lol

So you are 14 then.

my age doesnt matter..whether i was 14 or not, age is just a number.

In your case it matters a great deal I'm afraid because it could provide a much needed context when reading your posts. I don't mean that to be rude either. Sometimes I find your posts very thoughtful. At other times I find them a bit shallow and erratic. Knowing your age would help us understand you better.

thanks for the 1st part and well i am young but i don't wanna say my age on here cuz i dnt want anybody treating me any differently or passing off anything i say because i'm young.

[Jay]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit something that I've never said to anybody before. With the exception of Pet Sounds, everything that The Beach Boys recorded, starting with Smiley Smile and ending with Holland, is better than anything that they recorded from Surfin' Safari to Party!.

[Andrew G. Doe]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit something that I've never said to anybody before. With the exception of Pet Sounds, everything that The Beach Boys recorded, starting with Smiley Smile and ending with Holland, is better than anything that they recorded from Surfin' Safari to Party!.

Four words - The Beach Boys Today !

Oh, and you left this out - "IMO". 

[Andrew G. Doe]

my age doesnt matter..whether i was 14 or not, age is just a number.

Age is generally immaterial, but attitude, especially on a forum such as this where one can't see facial expressions, isn't. You're sailing very close to trolling territory, not to mention beginning to piss people off with your immaturity, real or feigned. Time to rethink your stance.

[Newguy562]

my age doesnt matter..whether i was 14 or not, age is just a number.

Age is generally immaterial, but attitude, especially on a forum such as this where one can't see facial expressions, isn't. You're sailing very close to trolling territory, not to mention beginning to piss people off with your immaturity, real or feigned. Time to rethink your stance.

hmmm re-thinking ------->

[lee]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit something that I've never said to anybody before. With the exception of Pet Sounds, everything that The Beach Boys recorded, starting with Smiley Smile and ending with Holland, is better than anything that they recorded from Surfin' Safari to Party!.

I agree with that.

[cablegeddon]

What this thread tells me is that among the BB-fanbase the albums Smiley smile through Holland are overrated and put on a pedestal. Listen the only post PS album that lives up to their legacy is Sunflower IMHO. I listen to Summer days, Party, All summer long and it's a worlds apart from Wild honey, Holland and Friends.

[shelter]

What this thread tells me is that among the BB-fanbase the albums Smiley smile through Holland are overrated and put on a pedestal. Listen the only post PS album that lives up to their legacy is Sunflower IMHO. I listen to Summer days, Party, All summer long and it's a worlds apart from Wild honey, Holland and Friends.

Why are they overrated? Don't you think it's just a matter of taste? Why on earth would people say that they prefer Wild Honey, Holland and Friends over Summer Days, All Summer Long and Party if they don't really mean it? Smiley Smile, Friends or Wild Honey are extremely pleasant albums without any real filler, they each have their unique atmosphere and some of the coolest songs I've ever heard. What's not to love? I like early Beach Boys too, but if you ask me about the band that I'm really a somewhat obsessed fan of, than I'm talking mostly about 1966-1971 Beach Boys.

[drbeachboy]

What this thread tells me is that among the BB-fanbase the albums Smiley smile through Holland are overrated and put on a pedestal. Listen the only post PS album that lives up to their legacy is Sunflower IMHO. I listen to Summer days, Party, All summer long and it's a worlds apart from Wild honey, Holland and Friends.

Please define "overrated". I think if we as a fanbase like something. we like something. There's no overrating or underrating it. I take it you don't consider yourself as part of the fanbase? For me, it is not so much "worlds apart" than styles apart; Good songs, different production, and some genre bending to find their niche in the ever changing world of late sixties and early seventies rock scene.

[SMiLE Brian]

What this thread tells me is that among the BB-fanbase the albums Smiley smile through Holland are overrated and put on a pedestal. Listen the only post PS album that lives up to their legacy is Sunflower IMHO. I listen to Summer days, Party, All summer long and it's a worlds apart from Wild honey, Holland and Friends.

Well listen to "in concert" then because the Beach Boys rock hard on it and surpass the legacy.

[LostArt]

One thing I've learned about Beach Boys fans is that if you ask 100 of them what their favorite Beach Boys song is, you just might get 100 different answers, and for 100 different reasons.  It's all good.  People like what they like.  Nothing wrong with that.

[Paul J B]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit something that I've never said to anybody before. With the exception of Pet Sounds, everything that The Beach Boys recorded, starting with Smiley Smile and ending with Holland, is better than anything that they recorded from Surfin' Safari to Party!.

I Get Around, In My Room, The Little Girl I Once Knew.......All gems like dozens more with Brian in control. I'll take any of those tunes over most anything on Wild Honey, Friends or Smiley. I like a lot of songs from the late 60's albums but I don't get the dismissal by some folks of the early stuff much of it being brilliant. You think Carl's lead on Wild Honey is better than his lead on Girl Don't Tell Me?

There is a portion of Beach Boys fans that think the late sixties stuff is great and so be it, but really.........plenty of tunes on those albums are just as bad as County Fair.

For me Brian was the Beach Boys, and his lack of involvement after Smile's collapse is glaringly obvious from that point on.

[Dr. Tim]

I know I will be hearing this whole thread again verbatim standing in line for this year's Record Store Day sales.

Meanwhile I will stare off into the distance, claim to know nothing, say I'm just there to pick up "Now That's What I Call Music #42" for the kiddos.

Confirming AGD's point indirectly: it is somewhat amusing to eavesdrop on newly-minted 20-something music freaks arguing over the LP stacks about which BB record is best, or did King Crimson do anything good after "Crimson King", or is post-Gabriel Genesis better or worse than Gabriel-era Genesis, or is Metallica more progressive than Zeppelin, etc. ...

[SMiLE Brian]

I know I will be hearing this whole thread again verbatim standing in line for this year's Record Store Day sales.

Meanwhile I will stare off into the distance, claim to know nothing, say I'm just there to pick up "Now That's What I Call Music #42" for the kiddos.

Confirming AGD's point indirectly: it is somewhat amusing to eavesdrop on newly-minted 20-something music freaks arguing over the LP stacks about which BB record is best, or did King Crimson do anything good after "Crimson King", or is post-Gabriel Genesis better or worse than Gabriel-era Genesis, or is Metallica more progressive than Zeppelin, etc. ...

It can be funny and the joke is definitely on me at times, but least we are passionate about wonderful music.

[LostArt]

I know I will be hearing this whole thread again verbatim standing in line for this year's Record Store Day sales.

Meanwhile I will stare off into the distance, claim to know nothing, say I'm just there to pick up "Now That's What I Call Music #42" for the kiddos.

Confirming AGD's point indirectly: it is somewhat amusing to eavesdrop on newly-minted 20-something music freaks arguing over the LP stacks about which BB record is best, or did King Crimson do anything good after "Crimson King", or is post-Gabriel Genesis better or worse than Gabriel-era Genesis, or is Metallica more progressive than Zeppelin, etc. ...

It can be funny and the joke is definitely on me at times, but least we are passionate about wonderful music.

[filledeplage]

I know I will be hearing this whole thread again verbatim standing in line for this year's Record Store Day sales.

Meanwhile I will stare off into the distance, claim to know nothing, say I'm just there to pick up "Now That's What I Call Music #42" for the kiddos.

Confirming AGD's point indirectly: it is somewhat amusing to eavesdrop on newly-minted 20-something music freaks arguing over the LP stacks about which BB record is best, or did King Crimson do anything good after "Crimson King", or is post-Gabriel Genesis better or worse than Gabriel-era Genesis, or is Metallica more progressive than Zeppelin, etc. ...

That was funny! I do love to see young people embrace the music, but, there is a certain place of distinct advantage, (for me, and, maybe yourself,) having purchased those old LP's hot-off-the-presses, among the rest of the music of that era.  I worry that there is an attempt to apply 2012 standards to a 60's and 70's mindset, and to write off other band members, who came into their own, by necessity, and stretch their skills, to become even Grammy winners.  

It is cool to see new passion for the music, but, important to look at the Big Picture of 50 years.  None of this occurred  overnight.  The new fans are full of fire and learning.  I love it even if I don't agree with all the viewpoints.  

We need to at least try to be patient, while they explore the music...and not throw water on their fiery enthusiasm...they are listening to it among the competition of their own generation of music.  They might even be taking heat from their peers, as many of us got, for being fans when it was not potically correct, even if it did not change our status as fans.

And, maybe, sometimes, be a little "dumb."  

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm probably one of the very few people who have listened to the BB canon straight through, in sequence, from Lost And Found to Stars & Stripes over the course of several weeks (for them as don't know, I was paid to because I sure as hell wouldn't do it for pleasure ) and there's an undeniable exponential curve leading up to Pet Sounds just as there's a definite falling off afterwards (and an almighty thud post-Love You). Thing is, the band releasing Wild Honey, Surf's Up and Holland isn't anything like the band that gave us All Summer Long, Surfer Girl and Today, or (thankfully) the band that came up with Summer In Paradise or KTSA. Have The Beach Boys released an entirely worthless album ?  No, although take it from me, SIP comes as close as is humanly possible. Have they ever released a flawless album ? Again, no, although four or five titles* come damn close. Fact is, over the course of a 35 year active recording career, such peaks and troughs are inevitable, just as personal preference is. I happen to think that the 1963-66 period is their absolute peak, but that doesn't mean I can't rate the early 70s stuff highly as well, any more than it means I can be arrogant enough to lay down the law here and baldly state that nothing post-Smile is worth a fart in a colander. That's both your opinion and your loss, which is fine by me, but don't tell me I'm in some way an idiot for going counter to your beliefs unless you want to see the less lovable side of my character. No-one knows it all (not even me - amazing, true, but there it is) and some folk even like the "BA" song, notably one Wilson, B. D., which to my mind shows that even genius has its brain farts. The BB canon is expansive enough to accommodate us all.



[* - OK, since you asked: Surfer Girl, All Summer Long, Today !, Pet Sounds and Holland. YMMV]

[LostArt]

We need to at least try to be patient, while they explore the music...and not throw water on their fiery enthusiasm...they are listening to it among the competition of their own generation of music.  They might even be taking heat from their peers, as many of us got, for being fans when it was not potically correct, even if it did not change our status as fans.

Absolutely agree.

The BB canon is expansive enough to accommodate us all.

Truth.

[drbeachboy]

For we fans that followed the band from it's inception, I think we grew along with their musical changes that took place along the way. I like all of their music. I tend to listen to Sunflower through In Concert a bit more, because that was the time when I followed them as a teenager and watched them rise from the ashes like a phoenix. I have a brother who was 14 when the band broke nationally and for many, many years only liked their stuff through 1965. Afterwards, except for the singles, he really didn't care much for Pet Sounds and beyond. Newer fans who have come on board much after their hey day have the luxury of history and hindsight to pick and chose what music era floats their boat. The Beach Boys have been my favorite band since I was 6 years old in 1963. I can even appreciate SIP to an extent. When you are a lifelong fan you tend to look at most of their career through rose-colored glasses. All I can say is that performance and that special blend of voices could take album filler and make them sound like classics to my ear.

[I. Spaceman]

...everything sounded so low budget after smile even though i loved it i'm still saddened that he didnt work with the wall of sound and create more mastrpieces

You've not heard an album called Sunflower, I take it. 

That album was decent actually besides wild honey it's my favorite post smile album . ..None of us fans can honestly say that the post smile material is what made us beach boy fans lol..we all know it's the pre-pet sounds and pet sounds and smile songs that really made us want 2 tap into the beach boys music. and really made us fanatics.

Uhhhhh, no. Smiley Smile is what made me a Beach Boys fanatic. Practically everything you say on this board is utterly wrongheaded and incorrect, but this is a flat-out howler. I think you need to be less cocky and loud, and just READ for a while.

[I. Spaceman]

  i just feel sad when i listen to "Pet Sounds" then i listen to "Friends" :[ it's such a downgrade :/.

No, it isn't. In fact, I like Friends more.

[pixletwin]

I can't help but regard the BB 1962-1967 as an almost different entity from the BB 1967-1973. Both versions have a wonderful trajectory though. It's almost as though you have to view them as BB v.1, BB v.2, BB v.3 (1974 - 1983), BB v.4 (1984 - ). They are like the Doctor Who of bands and always regenerating. Some incarnations you like better than others. But each one has interesting bits. Hopefully BB v.5 (2012) is awesome. LOL

[filledeplage]

I'm probably one of the very few people who have listened to the BB canon straight through, in sequence, from Lost And Found to Stars & Stripes over the course of several weeks (for them as don't know, I was paid to because I sure as hell wouldn't do it for pleasure ) and there's an undeniable exponential curve leading up to Pet Sounds just as there's a definite falling off afterwards (and an almighty thud post-Love You). Thing is, the band releasing Wild Honey, Surf's Up and Holland isn't anything like the band that gave us All Summer Long, Surfer Girl and Today, or (thankfully) the band that came up with Summer In Paradise or KTSA. Have The Beach Boys released an entirely worthless album ?  No, although take it from me, SIP comes as close as is humanly possible. Have they ever released a flawless album ? Again, no, although four or five titles* come damn close. Fact is, over the course of a 35 year active recording career, such peaks and troughs are inevitable, just as personal preference is. I happen to think that the 1963-66 period is their absolute peak, but that doesn't mean I can't rate the early 70s stuff highly as well, any more than it means I can be arrogant enough to lay down the law here and baldly state that nothing post-Smile is worth a fart in a colander. That's both your opinion and your loss, which is fine by me, but don't tell me I'm in some way an idiot for going counter to your beliefs unless you want to see the less lovable side of my character. No-one knows it all (not even me - amazing, true, but there it is) and some folk even like the "BA" song, notably one Wilson, B. D., which to my mind shows that even genius has its brain farts. The BB canon is expansive enough to accommodate us all.

[* - OK, since you asked: Surfer Girl, All Summer Long, Today !, Pet Sounds and Holland. YMMV]

Andrew, you are correct, in that there is room for everyone.  But, first, there is a really underrepresented point of view, and that is the woman's point of view.  Even if much is "universal."

Second, what you consider a "learning curve," I completely (but respectfully) disagree.  Even Sir Elton concedes that in order to advance, one must go back to one's roots.  I think there was enormous growth post Smile.  Because America was once a "colony" there is a certain empathy for those under the yoke of a colonial empire.  The Band could not help learning.  Travel is one of the best professors.  I found a profound awareness of this from Holland.  

Third, that, despite your magnificent catalogue work, which I truly respect, that people have not gone pretty much (I don't have all the early stuff.) retrospectively through the work, is incorrect.  Not often, and not for compensation, but, there are plenty of geezers out there, who pull out the old LPs on a Saturday afternoon, and, have a listen. That early era might not be my preferred one, but I am open to it.  

A lot of the work, when listened to by a woman, takes on a different meaning.  Summer in Paradise is one of those with some songs directed to a woman...it is unfortunate it did not have bigger sales. I happen to like it.  A lot.

Honkin' is (in my opinion) a "guy" song.  A woman I know, felllow teacher, talked about this after Al's show in Newport, in September. She, too, holds a graduate education degree, and is a lifer fan.  We discussed the music as sometimes, (as an observation and not a criticism) being almost as written to a "woman/lover" or from a completely male perspective.  

But, you are correct, that there is room for all.