I Will Never Look At Led Zeppelin The Same After This :'[

[Newguy562]

This is heartbreaking for any zeppelin fan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhPZx7AedE&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL22AB1A020267AAFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdr8PtUPIPo&feature=related

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Yes, this is very well known stuff.

[Newguy562]

Yes, this is very well known stuff.

There's a difference between covering songs and stealing songs :[ ..we both know that.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Can't say I'm much of a fan of LZ anyway. But I think a lot of this stuff is pretty underhanded. It's funny because I was defending Oasis (per usual) on here a few months ago and somebody said that they appreciated true innovation by bands like Led Zeppelin! 

The difference of course is that Oasis wore their influences on their sleeve and took from very popular sources so that everyone would know. LZ took obscure work mostly from a race that is historically subjugated and didn't credit them. So I don't think there's much good to say about it, to be honest.

[Newguy562]

Can't say I'm much of a fan of LZ anyway. But I think a lot of this stuff is pretty underhanded. It's funny because I was defending Oasis (per usual) on here a few months ago and somebody said that they appreciated true innovation by bands like Led Zeppelin! 

The difference of course is that Oasis wore their influences on their sleeve and took from very popular sources so that everyone would know. LZ took obscure work mostly from a race that is historically subjugated and didn't credit them. So I don't think there's much good to say about it, to be honest.

there's nothing good i can say besides their later work was much better than their earlier work
I never checked out oasis..noel talked so badly upon the beach boys & radiohead it truly irritated me since i'm a big fan of both bands so because of that i never took the time to check out their music and i never will based on his negative criticism. (It might not be a good reason to you but so be it.)

[SMiLE Brian]

Can't say I'm much of a fan of LZ anyway. But I think a lot of this stuff is pretty underhanded. It's funny because I was defending Oasis (per usual) on here a few months ago and somebody said that they appreciated true innovation by bands like Led Zeppelin! 

The difference of course is that Oasis wore their influences on their sleeve and took from very popular sources so that everyone would know. LZ took obscure work mostly from a race that is historically subjugated and didn't credit them. So I don't think there's much good to say about it, to be honest.

That was me , learned my lesson and honestly don't know what I was thinking that day.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

there's nothing good i can say besides their later work was much better than their earlier work

It's a complex issue because the fact is art is typically a free exchange of ideas and most art remains heavily indebted to someone else. These days "originality" seems like the easy go-to to evaluate what is a good work of art and what is a bad work of art, but it's pretty flimsy in my opinion. But the difference in this case, like I said, is that LZ took songs that were not commercial hits that very few people outside of connoiseurs knew about at the time (mostly because the music was made by culturally margialized figures), re-vamped them, and made huge sums of money off them without crediting the original writer

I never checked out oasis..noel talked so badly upon the beach boys & radiohead it truly irritated me since i'm a big fan of both bands so because of that i never took the time to check out their music and i never will based on his negative criticism. (It might not be a good reason to you but so be it.)

It's your call but no I don't think that's a great reason not to listen to his music. Artists are free to like and not like whomever they want and I can't expect all my favourite artists to love each other. Leo Tolstoy, one of the most widely regarded writers of the nineteenth century called Nietzsche, another one of the most widely regarded writers of the nineteenth century, "stupid and abnormal." Despite this rather low blow, most critics wouldn't say that that voids the work of Tolstoy and that War and Peace is suddenly not a monumental giant anymore.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Can't say I'm much of a fan of LZ anyway. But I think a lot of this stuff is pretty underhanded. It's funny because I was defending Oasis (per usual) on here a few months ago and somebody said that they appreciated true innovation by bands like Led Zeppelin! 

The difference of course is that Oasis wore their influences on their sleeve and took from very popular sources so that everyone would know. LZ took obscure work mostly from a race that is historically subjugated and didn't credit them. So I don't think there's much good to say about it, to be honest.

That was me , learned my lesson and honestly don't know what I was thinking that day.

Haha - well, see, that's one of the problems with LZ is that they hid it so well. Let's face it - it was a time of plundering. We could make big lists of works that, say, The Beatles and The Beach Boys stole from too. But their stealing was, in my opinion, above board.

[Newguy562]

there's nothing good i can say besides their later work was much better than their earlier work

It's a complex issue because the fact is art is typically a free exchange of ideas and most art remains heavily indebted to someone else. These days "originality" seems like the easy go-to to evaluate what is a good work of art and what is a bad work of art, but it's pretty flimsy in my opinion. But the difference in this case, like I said, is that LZ took songs that were not commercial hits that very few people outside of connoiseurs knew about at the time (mostly because the music was made by culturally margialized figures), re-vamped them, and made huge sums of money off them without crediting the original writer

I never checked out oasis..noel talked so badly upon the beach boys & radiohead it truly irritated me since i'm a big fan of both bands so because of that i never took the time to check out their music and i never will based on his negative criticism. (It might not be a good reason to you but so be it.)

It's your call but no I don't think that's a great reason not to listen to his music. Artists are free to like and not like whomever they want and I can't expect all my favourite artists to love each other. Leo Tolstoy, one of the most widely regarded authors of the nineteenth century called Nietzsche, another one of the most widely regarded authors of the nineteenth century, "stupid and abnormal." Despite this rather low blow, most critics wouldn't say that that voids the work of Tolstoy and that War and Peace is suddenly not a monumental giant anymore.

I just can't give that asshole a chance, the only song i heard by them is "Some Might Say" & well it's probably one of the worst songs i've ever heard in my life.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I just can't give that asshole a chance, the only song i heard by them is "Some Might Say" & well it's probably one of the worst songs i've ever heard in my life.

Then I'd say you'd probably have to hear more songs...

Since you take artist's words seriously, I'd figure you'd like a band like Oasis who has been praised by people like Pete Townshend and Ray Davies.

[Newguy562]

I just can't give that asshole a chance, the only song i heard by them is "Some Might Say" & well it's probably one of the worst songs i've ever heard in my life.

Then I'd say you'd probably have to hear more songs...

Since you take artist's words seriously, I'd figure you'd like a band like Oasis who has been praised by people like Pete Townshend and Ray Davies.

:] Well that's nice to know that they praise townshend because i'm a huge fan of the who.. i dont see how anyone can listen to "Who's Next,Tommy,Quadrophenia" and not be a fan of pete,roger,john & keith moon.   Ray Davies is one of the greatest song writers of 20th century & the kinks are the only british band that when i listen to their music i actually can picture roaming around in london. :] it's beautiful sophisticated english music. It sucks to know that noel doesnt like the beach boys or radiohead :/ but hey different strokes for different folks.

[Alan Smith]

but hey different strokes for different folks.

Yep, that's the most mature thing to do re the Gallagher comments;take a balanced approach.  He needs a good punch in the mouth for dissing the BB's and a good pat on the back for straight shooting about Radiohead 

[Newguy562]

but hey different strokes for different folks.

Yep, that's the most mature thing to do re the Gallagher comments;take a balanced approach.  He needs a good punch in the mouth for dissing the BB's and a good pat on the back for straight shooting about Radiohead 

I agree with the punch in the mouth comment but a pat on the back for dissing radiohead?
you don't like radiohead?

[Newguy562]

I just can't give that asshole a chance, the only song i heard by them is "Some Might Say" & well it's probably one of the worst songs i've ever heard in my life.

Then I'd say you'd probably have to hear more songs...

Since you take artist's words seriously, I'd figure you'd like a band like Oasis who has been praised by people like Pete Townshend and Ray Davies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_8z6gsbqrw

[Alan Smith]

but hey different strokes for different folks.

Yep, that's the most mature thing to do re the Gallagher comments;take a balanced approach.  He needs a good punch in the mouth for dissing the BB's and a good pat on the back for straight shooting about Radiohead  

I agree with the punch in the mouth comment but a pat on the back for dissing radiohead?
you don't like radiohead?

Well, I don't hate them per se, although the Bends nearly gave me the bends (I had to come up for air, pronto) - KidA, Hail, Limbs etc, I find myself drifting off.

Ok Computer is, err, ok - a reasonable listen (Karma Police is nifty and I do like that line about "the Government" in No suprises ("They don't speak for us")) but my reaction is not unlike that I have to Supergrass - OK at the time, but I don't take away a lot, or think about them "later".  Hence, I'm a tad surprised about the fanaticism RH generate - but, that's art (and maybe I'll feel differently in the future)

[Ron]

Personally I have no problem with what Oasis or Led Zeppelin did in regards to stealing music.  Stealing, influenced by, about the same thing.  Led Zeppelin changed it enough to make it their own, I don't think there was malice in it, I think they just didn't think through what they were doing.  It was pretty commonplace in their time anyways. 

Oasis I think pretty clearly were paying obnoxious homage to their idols, they didn't steal a thing just like an elvis impersonator isn't stealing anything from the king. 

I know some people don't like Oasis, but when they came out I thought they were great.  "Some Might Say" is a great song, what's wrong with that one?  I realize all their music is about the same thing, over and over again, but it's kind of got it's own charm,, like AC/DC does.  Same stuff.  Different title.  Still cool. 

[Ron]

but hey different strokes for different folks.

Yep, that's the most mature thing to do re the Gallagher comments;take a balanced approach.  He needs a good punch in the mouth for dissing the BB's and a good pat on the back for straight shooting about Radiohead 

I agree with the punch in the mouth comment but a pat on the back for dissing radiohead?
you don't like radiohead?

Well, I don't hate them per se, although the Bends nearly gave me the bends (I had to come up for air, pronto) - KidA, Hail, Limbs etc, I find myself drifting off.

Ok Computer is, err, ok - a reasonable listen (Karma Police is nifty and I do like that line about "the Government" in No suprises ("They don't speak for us")) but my reaction is not unlike that I have to Supergrass - OK at the time, but I don't take away a lot, or think about them "later".  Hence, I'm a tad surprised about the fanaticism RH attract - but, that's art (and maybe I'll feel differently in the future)

My problem with Radiohead is they take themselves too seriously.  Boring music by a bunch of nerds who think they're important or different than the rest of us.  At least Oasis had swagger but it was ridiculous.  They just wanted to fight, they didn't want to teach us anything. 

[Alan Smith]

Personally I have no problem with what Oasis or Led Zeppelin did in regards to stealing music.  Stealing, influenced by, about the same thing.  Led Zeppelin changed it enough to make it their own, I don't think there was malice in it, I think they just didn't think through what they were doing.  It was pretty commonplace in their time anyways.  

Oasis I think pretty clearly were paying obnoxious homage to their idols, they didn't steal a thing just like an elvis impersonator isn't stealing anything from the king.  

I know some people don't like Oasis, but when they came out I thought they were great.  "Some Might Say" is a great song, what's wrong with that one?  I realize all their music is about the same thing, over and over again, but it's kind of got it's own charm, like AC/DC does.  Same stuff.  Different title.  Still cool.  

  I believe the correct phrase is "based on" - like Do it Again was "alledgedly based on"/"probably f*ckin' ripped off from" the Frogmen, and nearly all of Al Jardine's shi was based on something else.

Oasis did a great job

[MyGlove]

HAHAHAHA!! So they stole a song by another artist. Big Whoop. I wonder if Howard Stern has ever heard the album Houses of the Holy. Newguy, don't be upset. Regardless of what people tell you, music is copied a lot.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

:] Well that's nice to know that they praise townshend because i'm a huge fan of the who.. i dont see how anyone can listen to "Who's Next,Tommy,Quadrophenia" and not be a fan of pete,roger,john & keith moon.   Ray Davies is one of the greatest song writers of 20th century & the kinks are the only british band that when i listen to their music i actually can picture roaming around in london. :] it's beautiful sophisticated english music. It sucks to know that noel doesnt like the beach boys or radiohead :/ but hey different strokes for different folks.

No, I meant that Townshend and Davies have praised Noel Gallagher and Oasis, not the other way around (though they have done that too). I'm pretty sure that Noel and Ray Davies are actually good friends. Noel basically saw Oasis as part of a particular British lineage that was basically this: Beatles, Stones, Who, Kinks, Small Faces --> Bowie, T-Rex --> Sex Pistols, Paul Weller and the Jam --> The Smiths --> The Stone Roses. And most of the people in that list who are alive saw Oasis as a very welcome addition to that party.

Again, I don't care if Noel likes The Beach Boys or not (and I agree with him about Radiohead). Again, I think that Nietzsche was a great writer, and I don't like War and Peace any less because Tolstoy called Nietzsche "stupid and abnormal."

[Chocolate Shake Man]

HAHAHAHA!! So they stole a song by another artist. Big Whoop.

Wellll...it's not just one song, it's virtually every song on the first album, quite a few on their second and while I haven't heard people doing an analysis of the other ones, I'm sure you'll find similar cases there. Again, it's a difficult issue because, like I said, art is primarily about an exchange of ideas not originality. This case is somewhat different though because of the whole history of cultural subjugation. Native artists, for example, have frequently critiqued and lamented the appropriation of their artistic work by the ruling class who have worked to subjugate them throughout history. And these critiques by Native artists is I think completely on the mark. My question might be, how is what Led Zeppelin is doing any different? I'm not really sure it is.

[SMiLE Brian]

Can't say I'm much of a fan of LZ anyway. But I think a lot of this stuff is pretty underhanded. It's funny because I was defending Oasis (per usual) on here a few months ago and somebody said that they appreciated true innovation by bands like Led Zeppelin!  

The difference of course is that Oasis wore their influences on their sleeve and took from very popular sources so that everyone would know. LZ took obscure work mostly from a race that is historically subjugated and didn't credit them. So I don't think there's much good to say about it, to be honest.

That was me , learned my lesson and honestly don't know what I was thinking that day.

Haha - well, see, that's one of the problems with LZ is that they hid it so well. Let's face it - it was a time of plundering. We could make big lists of works that, say, The Beatles and The Beach Boys stole from too. But their stealing was, in my opinion, above board.

Agreed, LZ went way overboard with the stealing to the point of shear ridiculousness.

[MyGlove]

Can't say I'm much of a fan of LZ anyway. But I think a lot of this stuff is pretty underhanded. It's funny because I was defending Oasis (per usual) on here a few months ago and somebody said that they appreciated true innovation by bands like Led Zeppelin! 

The difference of course is that Oasis wore their influences on their sleeve and took from very popular sources so that everyone would know. LZ took obscure work mostly from a race that is historically subjugated and didn't credit them. So I don't think there's much good to say about it, to be honest.

That was me , learned my lesson and honestly don't know what I was thinking that day.

Well I don't know. Maybe. But it's really no reason to not like them. Everybody in the 60's pretty much started off copying other people's music. Maybe not directly copying their songs, but making music that sounded ridiculously close to other artists. For the Beatles it was the everly brothers, for the Beach Boys it was essentially Four Freshman meets Chuck Berry, for the Who it was the Kinks, etc.. Of course Led Zeppelin taking songs from other people and not giving them credit was wrong. But it by no means should mean that they are worthless or anything. I mean where did they get Stairway to Heaven from. Isn't that considered one of the better songs of rock music. And what about No Quarter, or Kashmir. And that sound.

Haha - well, see, that's one of the problems with LZ is that they hid it so well. Let's face it - it was a time of plundering. We could make big lists of works that, say, The Beatles and The Beach Boys stole from too. But their stealing was, in my opinion, above board.

Agreed, LZ went way overboard with the stealing to the point of shear ridiculousness.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Well I don't know. Maybe. But it's really no reason to not like them.

I don't know -- I think their participation in cultural subjugation and exploitation is a good reason not to like them. But I didn't care for them before that - mostly because I find their style too showy. The Who were at their best when they reigned it in - allowing little bursts of their musical craziness to come out every once in a while. But it seemed like LZ was just pure razzle dazzle, and I get turned off by that quickly, the same way that action flicks bore me.

Everybody in the 60's pretty much started off copying other people's music. Maybe not directly copying their songs, but making music that sounded ridiculously close to other artists. For the Beatles it was the everly brothers, for the Beach Boys it was essentially Four Freshman meets Chuck Berry, for the Who it was the Kinks, etc..

Yes - although mostly that was stylistic influence or maybe quoting riffs, rhythms, and lyrics (i.e. Bo Diddley into Not Fade Away and a whole slew of other songs who took that rhythm). But here we have what almost amounts to covers in some cases, and then re-vamped them to sound more, ahem, culturally acceptable, and released them with different titles, not crediting the original artists. So it's a bit different - but, again, what makes it mostly unacceptable is its place in a whole history of marginalization and exploitation.

Of course Led Zeppelin taking songs from other people and not giving them credit was wrong. But it by no means should mean that they are worthless or anything. I mean where did they get Stairway to Heaven from. Isn't that considered one of the better songs of rock music.

Well they seemed to have definitely got the opening riff from Spirt who they opened for at one point early in their career:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czfI66yQUkk

But anyway, doesn't matter too much to me. I made a Top 400 favourite songs list and never would have considered that song.

[Ron]

It was really common, though.  You can't blame them for doing what others were doing to get famous.

FOR INSTANCE, Brian writing "Surfin' USA".  I don't know how you give that a pass but get on Led Zeppelin.  It's the exact same thing.

IMHO, Neither band is wrong for doing it.  It's one way music was made back then. 

It'd be different if we were talking about a band who weren't capable of good music without stealing, but Led Zeppelin is surely one of the greatest bands of all time, incredibly creative, and even stealing songs managed to create a sound nobody else even imitates.  I've never heard anybody play like that, and I've never heard anybody sing like that.