Van Dyke Parks pulls a Mike Love over painting....

[guitarfool2002]

Agreed very much with the two posts above.

Keep in mind that Van Dyke Parks has been fiercely loyal and dedicated to Frank Holmes' visual contributions to Smile receiving due credit: financially, historically, and artistically.

[The Heartical Don]

Agreed very much with the two posts above.

Keep in mind that Van Dyke Parks has been fiercely loyal and dedicated to Frank Holmes' visual contributions to Smile receiving due credit: financially, historically, and artistically.

Well put. He repeatedly spoke about Holmes, his importance as an artist and as a player in the SMiLE saga, and his status before TSS was finally released - in the most sympathetic and empathic turns of phrase.

[b00ts]

I am certain that Van Dyke Parks will handle the issue with dignity and honesty, and in a courteous manner. That is his very nature.

I don't have any insight into the legal issues involved. But, had I been an author or lyricist, I would certainly not like it to see my own texts, or parts thereof, suddenly appearing at an exhibition, and having been put up there with commercial intentions. Regardless of the artistic quality, I must add. I would have been wanted to be informed beforehand, at least.

What is very important to note here, and what I haven't seen yet in this thread: Van Dyke Parks has a lifelong and faithful habit of making absolutely sure that royalties and other forms of remuneration related to copyrights are paid in full to the people he worked and works with, and the artists whose works he performs on record and in a live setting. That is not as common a practice as many people think. Should he owe you just one dime for something you created 50 years ago, he would pay you that dime.

He is not a greedy or a jealous man. He's not in his business to get rich. He's the definition of a true artist.

I think he's sensitive in the right way, here. IIRC he once advised potential customers to stay away of the Edsel re-releases of his classic first three albums - precisely because that company hadn't treated him properly with regard to royalties. That is a justified protection of your own interests, in my book.

Agreed, and I think Van Dyke is in the right here as well. I wonder if his silence about the Smile Sessions Box has to do with not being renumerated properly...

[filledeplage]

Anyone know the outcome of this dispute?

Thanks!

[Andrew G. Doe]

Keep in mind that Van Dyke Parks has been fiercely loyal and dedicated to Frank Holmes' visual contributions to Smile receiving due credit: financially, historically, and artistically.

More than you imagine, and recently.

[Cliff1000uk]

Keep in mind that Van Dyke Parks has been fiercely loyal and dedicated to Frank Holmes' visual contributions to Smile receiving due credit: financially, historically, and artistically.

More than you imagine, and recently.

I could way off here but would it have something to do with Frank's images appearing in the MiC booklet? I'm not saying this was part of the delay on the boxset, I'm just being inquisitive!

[leggo of my ego]

Keep in mind that Van Dyke Parks has been fiercely loyal and dedicated to Frank Holmes' visual contributions to Smile receiving due credit: financially, historically, and artistically.

More than you imagine, and recently.

I could way off here but would it have something to do with Frank's images appearing in the MiC booklet? I'm not saying this was part of the delay on the boxset, I'm just being inquisitive!

You'll never get him to tell. its a secret.

[filledeplage]

Keep in mind that Van Dyke Parks has been fiercely loyal and dedicated to Frank Holmes' visual contributions to Smile receiving due credit: financially, historically, and artistically.

More than you imagine, and recently.

I could way off here but would it have something to do with Frank's images appearing in the MiC booklet? I'm not saying this was part of the delay on the boxset, I'm just being inquisitive!

You'll never get him to tell. its a secret.

One of his (Andrew's) countrymen said, "Discretion is the better part of valour." (Shakespeare)
Henry The Fourth, Part 1 Act 5, Scene 4, 115-121. 

I couldn't find a judgment decision online, and that is why I asked.   

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Anyone know the outcome of this dispute?

Thanks!

These things usually take a few years to litigate.

When the US Consititution was drafted, largely by Jefferson...

Not to be pedantic, but Jefferson was off in France when the Constitution was drafted and more or less ended up disliking it.


I'm a philosophical anarchist, so I would love nothing better than the elimination of the state.  But I can't agree with the ha-ha hee-hee dismissiveness of Grillo.  And I'm sorry I missed this discussion when it was current, by the way.

By way of the grocery store example, ideally yes, I would be willing to pay the grocery store what the groceries are worth to me.  But if I steal a loaf of bread, either because I can't afford it, or I just don't really feel like paying for it, what is the grocery store's recourse in a stateless construct?  Is that simply the price of a truly free market?  Do we hire bounty hunters to track down thieves and extract the replacement cost of the bread?  In any case, it's no utopia.  Doesn't there always have to be the threat of a stick somewhere?

[filledeplage]

Anyone know the outcome of this dispute?

Thanks!

These things usually take a few years to litigate.

When the US Consititution was drafted, largely by Jefferson...

Not to be pedantic, but Jefferson was off in France when the Constitution was drafted and more or less ended up disliking it.
(quote)
Not to digress too far, but large sections (Declaration of Independence - US) were "borrowed" from Rousseau...they say that, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery," but the words of Rousseau returned to his homeland, when France wrote a comparative "Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen de  1789. But Jefferson was a strong supporter of intellectual property for the Constitution and to promote "science and the useful arts." It's been a while since my Siècle de Lumières course...And many of our law concepts come from England.

There is a reason for transformative works inclusion, and deritivative classes, and parody.  I don't know how long this case, beyond the equitable relief provided by an injunction, has taken (more than a year at this point) xand whether it became a permanent one, and whether a remedy has been fashioned if the claim was found meritorious. 

Any good BB tribute that is an educational tool is a great thing in my book, having bought the vinyl on the day of release.  I felt it could almost (where I put on my flack jacket) be analogous for the more obscure work, to what the TV cameos via John Stamos did for the more popularized work.

And, not looking at the overall benefit conferred by a relatively later-generation artist is short-sighted, especially for the more obscure and marginalized work.  And this depends upon whether it is transformative/derivative/parody, etc., or whether there's "substantial similarity." That is a question for the court.

 This is not a linear process.  It seems like  a set of concentric rings.  I hope I don't sound like a "pseudo intellectual," I'm just a hard working "B" student.   

[grillo]

Anyone know the outcome of this dispute?

Thanks!

These things usually take a few years to litigate.

When the US Consititution was drafted, largely by Jefferson...

Not to be pedantic, but Jefferson was off in France when the Constitution was drafted and more or less ended up disliking it.


I'm a philosophical anarchist, so I would love nothing better than the elimination of the state.  But I can't agree with the ha-ha hee-hee dismissiveness of Grillo.  And I'm sorry I missed this discussion when it was current, by the way.

By way of the grocery store example, ideally yes, I would be willing to pay the grocery store what the groceries are worth to me.  But if I steal a loaf of bread, either because I can't afford it, or I just don't really feel like paying for it, what is the grocery store's recourse in a stateless construct?  Is that simply the price of a truly free market?  Do we hire bounty hunters to track down thieves and extract the replacement cost of the bread?  In any case, it's no utopia.  Doesn't there always have to be the threat of a stick somewhere?

I admit I haven't read all the replies since my snide comments from whenever that was, so I'll address only this last post...
I seek no utopia. As long as humans remain human no one should expect anything perfect, ever. I think property rights are the basis for any kind of civilization, but I believe IP, as currently enforced is totally stupid. As usual, the whole thing comes down to this...Don't hit people and don't take their stuff. Right? Wait, I know what your saying, just give me a second.
Don't hit, don't steal...and the organization that supposedly insures this (government, or the state) gives itself permission to do those very things (and many others). It is insane. Society accepts the brute force of the vampire state because someone might steal a song idea, or print your book with their name on it, or a million other things that don't matter at all.You could substitute anything else that the government enforces instead of IP and I would have the same reaction.
    I have no way of knowing how anything might work without the leviathan state sitting in the room holding the gun, but that doesn't matter. Just as is didn't matter that no one knew who would pick the cotton after slavery. Who could have guessed there would be giant machines doing the work of hundreds of individuals in the cotton fields? And let us not forget it was the state that enforced slavery and then, when the tide turned against that idea it was the state that killed 6000,000 people to enforce "it's" new idea (civil war, folks)
    Anyway, being a musician and a writer I understand the desire to protect what you create, but I also know that nothing I've ever done is/was wholly unique. I think the fashion industry is a good example of how someone may come up with an idea for the fall season in january, but by autumn every store at the mall has similar, if not identical items for 15 bucks. Is versace going out of business because the gap ( or whoever) copies their ideas? Of course not.
    Sorry about being so catty in the past. I realize its not a very effective way to communicate ideas, especially ideas that may be new to some folks. I am, unfortunately, only human. I have heard every argument for why a government is needed and none make sense to me. Everything the state does it bars everyone else from doing.  I like universal rules, not rules that leave out the rule makers. Ip is just another symptom of the disease of statism.
   Lastly, http://www.techdirt.com/blog/innovation/articles/20130502/10513922919/over-90-most-innovative-products-past-few-decades-were-not-patented.shtmls a new article about how over 90% of the most innovative products of recent times were not patented.