Who hated SMiLE?

[I. Spaceman]

Mike did write the lyrics to I'm Waiting For The Day...

Hardly. It's been reported that the lyrical difference between the originally copyrighted version (in 1964) credited only to Brian and the Pet Sounds track is less than ten words.

Is it possible that the copyrighted version left off Mike's name, ala the songs that he had to fight and win credit for later on?

[Chris Brown]

It's possible that after Today, Mike didn't want to write those kinds of lyrics anymore. But then explain GV.

I think it's entirely possible Mike may not have wanted to continue with the usual girls, cars and surfing themes. Mike did write the lyrics to I'm Waiting For The Day which I think are as good as any of Tony Asher's lyrics and the lyrics on Good Vibrations are quintessential Mike with the whole boy/girl perspective. Having said that I actually believe Mike was very capable of progressing as a lyricist and could've plunged into surreal Americana type stuff though probably no where near as good as Mr. Parks but he did after all go on to write Big Sur.

It isn't just about being capable though - using new lyrical collaborators allowed Brian to feel more free and creative, like he could push himself into doing new things musically and thematically.  Working with Mike as he had done for the last few years may have felt constricting to him.  His music really benefitted from the fact that he used collaborators from different backgrounds, who brought different things to the table.  It's not as simple as saying "Mike could have written the lyrics for Pet Sounds and Smile" because the musical approaches on those projects would not have been the same without Tony Asher and Van Dyke, respectively.  

[Cam Mott]

This argument will likely go on forever.

Probably.

Tony has said he felt like the Boys were dissing him and/or his lyrics at the session he attended. I don't know if I'll be able to find it [or remember to look] but Tony has also said that he is not really positive he was being criticised, he allows it may have been a ribbing. Grain of salt time-out until I do or don't find that.

[SG7]

Tony Asher said that during the recording of Pet Sounds, as soon as BW was in another room, the entire band would bash the songs saying things like "why are we even singing these stupid songs".

I imagine that the same thing happened during the smile sessions. It was probably worse at that point. Seems like they were all full of themselves

Play some unsurpassed masters. They couldn't even take Girls on The Beach seriously 

[Bicyclerider]

As did Brian in Beautiful Dreamer, Marilyn, Van Dyke Parks, and others. But, of course, they're all infected with the "I hate Mike Love for no good reason" chromosome...Right? 

I think I'll go with the recollections of Brian, Carl, Van Dyke, Marilyn, and David Anderle that Mike didn't like Smile - rather than all the experts on this board that weren't there butlove to insist Mike was nothing but supportive of Brian's second "ego music" album.

[oldsurferdude]

As did Brian in Beautiful Dreamer, Marilyn, Van Dyke Parks, and others. But, of course, they're all infected with the "I hate Mike Love for no good reason" chromosome...Right? 

I think I'll go with the recollections of Brian, Carl, Van Dyke, Marilyn, and David Anderle that Mike didn't like Smile - rather than all the experts on this board that weren't there butlove to insist Mike was nothing but supportive of Brian's second "ego music" album.

Ahhh, somebody finally opened the window and let the fresh air in-May this  reside in the top ten best ever posts on this board. Thank you.

[Cam Mott]

I think I'll go with what was actually said and done at the time instead of 60 year old second hand opinions.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

Sorry - forgot about Maxwell Silver though we do know that he played on the song in sessions despite criticism that it was "the corny one". As for Eight Days, it was mostly a Paul song and John still called it "lousy" despite being the predominant vocalist on it.

Aren't you actually making a good argument toward Mike not exactly being satan here? It's OK for John Lennon to call something the corny one, or lousy, or sh*te, but Mike can't ask what a lyric means?

Uh, bands have disagreements all the freaking time. Lots of bands are nothing but disagreement and strife! Trick is, will any or all of them show up for work when needed and get on with it? Mike showed up and sang when asked to and sang well.... Get over it!

[SG7]

On the subject of Lennon, he is also someone who was extremely critical of himself. He called "Yes it is" a failed "This Boy." That man's failure is better than most bands hits! So I wouldn't take his word.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, he did also call "Cry Baby Cry" "just another piece of shite" and that's one of my all-time faves!

[Chris Brown]

I think I'll go with what was actually said and done at the time instead of 60 year old second hand opinions.

I'm not sure you know the definition of "second hand."  All those people listed were there when everything went down.  You can't just dismiss what they've said over the years by arguing that since Mike sang what he was asked (as far as we know, anyways), he was supportive of the project.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I guess my point is: The Beach Boys were Mike's band too and he didn't like the people hanging around Brian, didn't like the drugs (a fact alone that likely created ill will and spawned a host of Beautiful Dreamer quotes) and thought they were influencing the lyrics and probably had an attitude. We all may not feel the same as he might have (we have no way of really knowing this because we weren't there and Brian is not our bandmate/cousin) but the guy had the right to feel that way and to say something about it. However, Smile did not collapse because Mike refused to come in and sing when Brian asked him to. I'm sure Mike's attitude and vibe didn't help Brian, but trying to pin the entire collapse of Smile on Mike just seems petty and like an easy shot at the uncool bald guy.

[Cam Mott]

I understand "second hand". Mike's account of whether he did or did not like SMiLE would be a first hand account. Brian's, Marilyn's, David's, Carl's would be their opinion as a "second hand" account.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Aren't you actually making a good argument toward Mike not exactly being satan here? It's OK for John Lennon to call something the corny one, or lousy, or sh*te, but Mike can't ask what a lyric means?

Since I never called Mike "satan" nor did I say it was "OK for John Lennon to call something the corny one" (because neither of those statements would have had anything to do with what I was talking about) then, no, I'm not making that argument.

Uh, bands have disagreements all the freaking time. Lots of bands are nothing but disagreement and strife! Trick is, will any or all of them show up for work when needed and get on with it? Mike showed up and sang when asked to and sang well.... Get over it!

But again, the point is that just because he "showed up and and sand when asked to and sang well", that's no reason to conclude that he liked the project.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I understand "second hand". Mike's account of whether he did or did not like SMiLE would be a first hand account. Brian's, Marilyn's, David's, Carl's would be their opinion as a "second hand" account.

In other words, you don't actually understand what "first hand" or "second hand" account means and you will only accept Mike Love's word on the issue. 

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

"But again, the point is that just because he "showed up and and sand when asked to and sang well", that's no reason to conclude that he liked the project."

But he didn't HAVE to like it!

That's not how it works!

Roger Daltry BEGGED Townsend to abandon the Lifehouse project! (which he did) .....

I'm just saying every member of a band in rock history liking/loving/being 100 percent behind each and every project/new direction is hideously rare.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I understand "second hand". Mike's account of whether he did or did not like SMiLE would be a first hand account. Brian's, Marilyn's, David's, Carl's would be their opinion as a "second hand" account.

In other words, you don't actually understand what "first hand" or "second hand" account means and you will only accept Mike Love's word on the issue. 

Are you a lawyer? Seriously!!!

And if so, do you give free consultations? 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

But he didn't HAVE to like it!

That's not how it works!

I never said he had to like it and I never said that's how it works. Someone said that Mike didn't dislike the project and the proof was that he sang on it. My response was strictly to that and nothing else. This thread's title is not "Did Mike Love HAVE to like Smile?"

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Then what's all the fuss about and what's the point?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Then what's all the fuss about and what's the point?

I'm not the one who started the thread!

But one could extrapolate many things from Mike not liking the album, none of which I'll get into right now because I'm going to sleep. Gotta big case in the morning...no not really.

[Runaways]

i don't see how Mike singing on it had anything to do with him liking it or not.  or if there was nothing on the tapes.  It's not like the tapes were everything, i'm sure they all had sense not to discuss these things while recording, and brian probably wouldn't want to keep it if it was recorded.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

But once again, where are we getting? Where does any of this get us? Brian's people/friends say Mike hated Smile, Mike says he did/does not. What can possible be done in this situation other than to admit the situation is too shaded with gray and shrouded in time to come to some useless conclusion.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Who hated Smile the most ?

Brian, patently, as he decided to abandon it. One thing everyone concurs on is that it was his call and his alone.

[MBE]

Who hated Smile the most ?

Brian, patently, as he decided to abandon it. One thing everyone concurs on is that it was his call and his alone.

+1

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Who hated Smile the most ?

Brian, patently, as he decided to abandon it.

And refused to talk about it for years, as well.