Who hated SMiLE?

[BananaLouie]

It's pretty much a given that Mike "Don't F*ck With The Formula" Love was opposed to the SMiLE project from the get go but does anyone know specifically which other Beach Boys didn't like the SMiLE songs? Any specific quotes by band members? What did Murray think of SMiLE? I'm certain that at least Dennis supported Brian's bold new musical direction.

[Andrew G. Doe]

It's pretty much a given that Mike "Don't F*ck With The Formula" Love was opposed to the SMiLE project from the get go...

It is ?  News to me, and I suspect many other folk here. Based on this statement, I gather you've not listened to any of the Smile sessions where Mike not only sings something you claim he was bitterly oppose to, but sings it outstanding well.

Oh, and many have tried to track down the origin of the "DFWTF" quote, and who said it, with a complete lack of success to date.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It's pretty much a given that Mike "Don't F*ck With The Formula" Love was opposed to the SMiLE project from the get go

Yeah, I've had some bitter arguments with ardent Mike Love supporters on this board, and I have trouble buying this. Just from listening to the sessions, it seems fairly clear that all the guys are into the project. I think the turn against it comes in December when Brian starts losing focus. With that in mind, I'm equally unsatisfied with the position that you can't say Mike wasn't into the project since he sang so well on the material. How many songs that John Lennon later said he felt were sh*t at the time did he sing on? Maxwell Silver Hammer, Eight Days A Week, etc. Moreover, the most significant (read: not the only) element missing from Smile are vocals - and I think it's ultimately telling that there are no lead vocals from the lead singer of the band.

[shelter]

I don't think that anyone who cares about Brian Wilson's and/or his music can possibly hate 'SMiLE'. No doubt there were people in and around the band at the time who had the opinion that it wasn't exactly the right type of music for The Beach Boys, but I'm sure that in any case "hate" is a much too strong word.

[MyGlove]

From all the information i've gathered, I'm pretty sure Mike was pretty much just opposed to the lyrics. I don't think the music was what bothered him. I mean he didn't seem to have a problem with Smiley Smile. The music on the SMiLE tapes is way more accessible than on that of Smiley Smile. So I don't think it was the music people had trouble with, whoever it was. It was the lyrics. And a lot of the actual reason Brian quit it was because of other things than opposition.

[BananaLouie]

Thanks gentlemen, you're all correct. I think "hate" is too strong a word, I should've used the words "unsure" or "concerned" about the SMiLE material. Andrew you're quite right about Mike's vocal work on SMiLE, it was well executed and I recall Mike recently praising SMiLE and even stated Wonderful as his favorite.

[Howie Edelson]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

Sorry - forgot about Maxwell Silver though we do know that he played on the song in sessions despite criticism that it was "the corny one". As for Eight Days, it was mostly a Paul song and John still called it "lousy" despite being the predominant vocalist on it.

[BananaLouie]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

This is true, John was not a fan of Paul's song which he called "Granny Music", in fact there's a YouTube video of John goofing around during the Let It Be sessions singing Maxwell's Silver Hammer in a mocking
manner, it's quite funny. 

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

This is true, John was not a fan of Paul's song which he called "Granny Music"

That was actually in reference to Ob-la-di Ob-la-da, another one that John hated. He's all over that one vocally and musically.

[Rocky Raccoon]

It is ?  News to me, and I suspect many other folk here.

In I Just Wasn't Made For These Times, both Brian and Carl say that Mike didn't like Smile.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

As did Brian in Beautiful Dreamer, Marilyn, Van Dyke Parks, and others. But, of course, they're all infected with the "I hate Mike Love for no good reason" chromosome...Right? 

[SMiLE Brian]

Brian wasn't crazy about SMiLE until he finished BWPS, and then this year listened to the box set, reminding him that the original sessions weren't all bad for him.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Brian wasn't crazy about SMiLE until he finished BWPS, and then this year listened to the box set, reminding him that the original sessions weren't all bad for him.

Oh come on. Smile was Brian's baby but he was in a fragile state and the criticism made him re-think everything he had been doing.

[SMiLE Brian]

Brian wasn't crazy about SMiLE until he finished BWPS, and then this year listened to the box set, reminding him that the original sessions weren't all bad for him.

Oh come on. Smile was Brian's baby but he was in a fragile state and the criticism made him re-think everything he had been doing.

I meant Brian's viewpoint in the 1970s- 1990s where he looked at the SMiLE era as the beginning of  the dark period in his life where he couldn't write hits like the old days and the mental illness started coming on strong.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I meant Brian's viewpoint in the 1970s- 1990s where he looked at the SMiLE era as the beginning of  the dark period in his life where he couldn't write hits like the old days and the mental illness started coming on strong.

Did he, though? In the mid-70s he was calling Friends his favourite Beach Boys album. Not a hit, certainly, but he certainly felt at that point, that his creative peak was post-Smile. I think his negative feelings about Smile were mostly about how The Beach Boys may have missed a golden opportunity and, sure, it could have been viewed in retrospect as a moment in time that could have changed a whole course of action.

[I. Spaceman]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

Sorry - forgot about Maxwell Silver though we do know that he played on the song in sessions despite criticism that it was "the corny one". As for Eight Days, it was mostly a Paul song and John still called it "lousy" despite being the predominant vocalist on it.

References to Hammer as "the corny one" come from bad editing in the Let It Be film. In actuality, that comment is made referring to a scrapped backing vocal part in Don't Let Me Down.

[SMiLE Brian]

I meant Brian's viewpoint in the 1970s- 1990s where he looked at the SMiLE era as the beginning of  the dark period in his life where he couldn't write hits like the old days and the mental illness started coming on strong.

Did he, though? In the mid-70s he was calling Friends his favourite Beach Boys album. Not a hit, certainly, but he certainly felt at that point, that his creative peak was post-Smile. I think his negative feelings about Smile were mostly about how The Beach Boys may have missed a golden opportunity and, sure, it could have been viewed in retrospect as a moment in time that could have changed a whole course of action.

Friends was one of his favorites, but his hard work on the album combined with its flopping in in the hell of 1968 had to hurt. SMiLE's non-event was a huge letdown.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

Sorry - forgot about Maxwell Silver though we do know that he played on the song in sessions despite criticism that it was "the corny one". As for Eight Days, it was mostly a Paul song and John still called it "lousy" despite being the predominant vocalist on it.

References to Hammer as "the corny one" come from bad editing in the Let It Be film. In actuality, that comment is made referring to a scrapped backing vocal part in Don't Let Me Down.

You're kidding! How was that discovered? Bootlegs?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I meant Brian's viewpoint in the 1970s- 1990s where he looked at the SMiLE era as the beginning of  the dark period in his life where he couldn't write hits like the old days and the mental illness started coming on strong.

Did he, though? In the mid-70s he was calling Friends his favourite Beach Boys album. Not a hit, certainly, but he certainly felt at that point, that his creative peak was post-Smile. I think his negative feelings about Smile were mostly about how The Beach Boys may have missed a golden opportunity and, sure, it could have been viewed in retrospect as a moment in time that could have changed a whole course of action.

Friends was one of his favorites, but his hard work on the album combined with its flopping in in the hell of 1968 had to hurt. SMiLE's non-event was a huge letdown.

Agreed.

[I. Spaceman]

It should be noted that John Lennon co-wrote "Eight Days A Week" and appears nowhere on the released recording of "Maxwell's Silver Hammer."

Sorry - forgot about Maxwell Silver though we do know that he played on the song in sessions despite criticism that it was "the corny one". As for Eight Days, it was mostly a Paul song and John still called it "lousy" despite being the predominant vocalist on it.

References to Hammer as "the corny one" come from bad editing in the Let It Be film. In actuality, that comment is made referring to a scrapped backing vocal part in Don't Let Me Down.

You're kidding! How was that discovered? Bootlegs?

I discovered it when I heard the unedited tape of the session on the Purple Chick A/B Road set, and was quite astounded, as I had also always assumed the comment referred to Hammer. There are many other howlingly bad editing choices in the film as well. It is almost as if Michael Lindsay-Hogg was attempting to make the sessions look much worse than they actually were.

[Justin]

So are we concluding or confirming that Brian's perception that Mike hated SMiLE is incorrect? 

As mentioned above, he clearly says that Mike is one of the reasons he shelved the project in the Beautiful Dreamer documentary.  Mike may have participated in the recording sessions, but what about the spats with VDP?  Those didn't happen, then?  I don't see it as that black and white myself.  It wasn't just Mike...or just Brian as the issue..it was an clusterball of crap that Brian got from many directions (including himself).  But to now rule out Mike Love completely...I don't know about all that.

[Outtasight!]

My mate Dave hates SMiLE!

[GuyOnTheBeach]

As mentioned before, I don't think that Mike was opposed to SMiLE either, not only did he sing those parts pretty damn well, but on the box set he contributed quite a lengthy essay about the project, now I remember from High School, writing essays about things you hate is not something that you tend to do.

IF Mike did say the DFWTF thing, I think it's possible that he was taken out of context over the course of time, not talking about how Brian was writing the songs, but how he was recording them, it must be frustrating for anyone to go into a studio, record vocals for a 30 second segment and then go, only to watch the man putting it together slowly begin to lose focus.

Just my opinions of course

[BananaLouie]

I did some further searching on the topic and there was some dialogue in the movie An American Family where they're working on the SMiLE sessions and Bruce says something like "Gee, Brian I'm not sure I even know what were singing about." and Carl something along the lines of "It's just all bits and pieces." not sure how accurate this would be but perhaps it's further insight into how the band felt about the song's subject matter.