Gary Usher origins

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I did some searches and I found this on AGD's website:

January      Brian meets Gary Usher (born December 14th, 1938, San Gabriel, CA) for the first time and
 immediately begins a songwriting partnership with him.

Where can I find more info on him before he met Brian?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

After I posted this, I thought about google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Usher

Now I wish I could figure out how to erase this topic to avoid a thrashing from AGD.

But I'm learning....slowly.

[NatureShowInStereo]

Are there pictures of Gary Usher?

[Jon Stebbins]

Are there pictures of Gary Usher?

Try Google Images...(note calm response)

[stack-o-tracks]

Wikipedia. I know a guy who looks just like him.

[NatureShowInStereo]

Are there pictures of Gary Usher?

Try Google Images...(note calm response)

I've looked in the past, but only really found one very formal looking photo of him. I was wondering if anyone had anything Google couldn't give me.

[Andrew G. Doe]

After I posted this, I thought about google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Usher

Now I wish I could figure out how to erase this topic to avoid a thrashing from AGD.

But I'm learning....slowly.

No sweat. Just need a little work on the order in which you're doing this kind of thing. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Are there pictures of Gary Usher?

Try Google Images...(note calm response)

I've looked in the past, but only really found one very formal looking photo of him. I was wondering if anyone had anything Google couldn't give me.

Google images, first page, second row.

[Alan Smith]

After I posted this, I thought about google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Usher

Now I wish I could figure out how to erase this topic to avoid a thrashing from AGD.

But I'm learning....slowly.

But the wiki site leaves out these crucial items, I hope this helps:
GU was a bank teller at City National Bank in Beverly Hills by day 
He was trailblazing the rockstar lifestyle by living with his Granny 

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I love Sagittarius. His work with the Byrds was great as well. I wish the 80's sessions with Brian had borne more fruit.

[Jon Stebbins]

Are there pictures of Gary Usher?

Try Google Images...(note calm response)

I've looked in the past, but only really found one very formal looking photo of him.

Huh? There's about 10 or more candid photos of Gary on Google images from all different eras.

[guitarfool2002]

I love Sagittarius. His work with the Byrds was great as well. I wish the 80's sessions with Brian had borne more fruit.

So "My World Fell Down" isn't blatant theft from what Brian was doing with Smile? Not that it isn't an enjoyable piece of pop-psychedelia, but damn if I were Brian in '67 and heard that some heads would roll.

Having said that I think Usher and Brian made a terrific songwriting team. But "My World Fell Down"...it's just too blatant.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So "My World Fell Down" isn't blatant theft from what Brian was doing with Smile?

No, it's not. Point me in the direction of a similar collage of musique concrete from the Smile sessions and I'll reconsider, but until then...

[guitarfool2002]

So "My World Fell Down" isn't blatant theft from what Brian was doing with Smile?

No, it's not. Point me in the direction of a similar collage of musique concrete from the Smile sessions and I'll reconsider, but until then...

Heroes And Villains for one, of the variety Brian would play for people as he was creating it. The kind of dubs he'd play for Vosse, Anderle, et al.

The first section, the intro of the record...would that keyboard arrangement have sounded that way if one of those producers-writers had not heard "Bicycle Rider"? Various sections sound like Smile-lite to me, the various production touches like the specific drum hits, the modulation in the chorus and the heavy 4/4 parade beat, the overall sounds, the piano winding down at the very end...tell me that doesn't sound like Smile music!

And maybe it was just a rumor, but didn't Brian himself think this specific record was "stealing" his production ideas, since it came out in summer '67? If that is just a rumor, please correct because it's something I've heard for years and it has biased me a bit in the discussion.

[Andrew G. Doe]

So "My World Fell Down" isn't blatant theft from what Brian was doing with Smile?

No, it's not. Point me in the direction of a similar collage of musique concrete from the Smile sessions and I'll reconsider, but until then...

Heroes And Villains for one, of the variety Brian would play for people as he was creating it. The kind of dubs he'd play for Vosse, Anderle, et al.

Allegedly - their recollections are are both fuzzy and contradictory, plus when the "MWFD" single came out (the album version lacks the collage) i don't recall anyone saying "My God, that sounds just like the stuff Brian used to play is !".

The first section, the intro of the record...would that keyboard arrangement have sounded that way if one of those producers-writers had not heard "Bicycle Rider"? Various sections sound like Smile-lite to me, the various production touches like the specific drum hits, the modulation in the chorus and the heavy 4/4 parade beat, the overall sounds, the piano winding down at the very end...tell me that doesn't sound like Smile music!

To me it sounds like a sunshine pop song psychedoozied up. Is all.

And maybe it was just a rumor, but didn't Brian himself think this specific record was "stealing" his production ideas, since it came out in summer '67? If that is just a rumor, please correct because it's something I've heard for years and it has biased me a bit in the discussion.

Can only speak for myself, but I've never seen anything that even obliquely indicated that Brian ever thought that. The closest I've seen is this, from the liners of the excellent Sundazed reissue: "There is an intriguing rumor that Usher took the bullfight section straight from the Smile cutting room floor, but there is no evidence to substantiate it." Of course there's no evidence to substantiate it: exactly the reverse, in fact - there's a session sheet detailing what's on each track of both the 4- and 8-track tapes for the central section. It's entirely an Usher concoction.

[NatureShowInStereo]

Thanks for the pic, AGD. Never seen that before.

Another question about Usher- how did he die? Forgive me if the Wiki article covers this, I just didn't see it when I skimmed.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Thanks for the pic, AGD. Never seen that before.

Another question about Usher- how did he die? Forgive me if the Wiki article covers this, I just didn't see it when I skimmed.

Lung cancer. Brian came to see him just before he passed on.

[guitarfool2002]

I was a bit too harsh in my original post, but I'm trying to remember where I heard about Brian thinking his production ideas were stolen, and relating it to this specific record. Maybe it was a few statements like that which just got attached to My World Fell Down through the years, because of the similarities? I just can't remember.

It is interesting to hear the original release by The Ivy League, and then play it back to back with Usher's production. The sonic elements Usher added sound a lot like what Brian was doing in the studio at the same time with Smile, or at least in the half-year or so leading up to the release of My World Fell Down. Those elements were not there on the original, and unless Usher had those sounds on another release before this, it sounds a lot like it *could* have come from some Smile sessions.

It would be an interesting question to ask Bruce and Brian, if they have not been asked before.

[Roger Ryan]

Whether true or not, it was reported in some book somewhere that Brian became suspicious of outsiders hearing the SMiLE tapes after becoming aware of what Usher had done with MY WORLD FELL DOWN (Bruce Johnston appears on both MWFD and the SMiLE tracks, right?). If there is any truth to this, I suspect Brian was responding to the modular arrangement of MWFD and how it hard edits dramatic dynamic shifts in a similar manner to the SMiLE material.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bruce's contribution to "MWFD" was one vocal session.

[Malc]

Stephen McParland's epic research into the life of Gary Usher. Phenomenal read ... and over 600 goshdarn pages !! 
http://www.pipeline.moonfruit.com/#/reading-reviews-2/4516681984

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Weather or not My World Fell Down had any parts stolen from SMiLE, I think its an awesome song!

[guitarfool2002]

Whether true or not, it was reported in some book somewhere that Brian became suspicious of outsiders hearing the SMiLE tapes after becoming aware of what Usher had done with MY WORLD FELL DOWN (Bruce Johnston appears on both MWFD and the SMiLE tracks, right?). If there is any truth to this, I suspect Brian was responding to the modular arrangement of MWFD and how it hard edits dramatic dynamic shifts in a similar manner to the SMiLE material.

I know I've heard it or read it somewhere before, so it's good to see someone else who remembers this aspect of "My World Fell Down" - the part where Brian thought it was too close to what he had been recording for Smile, and how many people had access to hear those tapes in 1966-67?

I'm not a believer of conspiracy theories as facts can conveniently get in the way of even the best of those theories, but I am an aficionado and someone who devours the details of the better ones. So if there are such theories about My World Fell Down and Smile, the dots aren't that hard to connect.

The song was the first song project he did which he'd eventually name Sagittarius, so it stands alone apart from the album where it eventually appeared. He originally wanted Chad and Jeremy to record the cover, but they balked, so Usher did it himself. He was recording at and working on the staff of Columbia Records, so there is *no doubt* of the possibility that he and Brian (and Bruce and Terry) were in the same place at the same time (Columbia studios in LA) and hanging out at each others' sessions. Note the Pet Sounds-era photos of Bruce, Terry, and Asher sitting around Brian at Columbia's mixing board...they were always hanging out and listening.

One of the things Brian did when he started to feel his ideas were being taken was to *close* access to his recording sessions. No outsiders or non-essential people allowed. This is mentioned in Jules' Goodbye Surfing article. Brian's paranoia, or was there something specific that triggered this?

It's just too damn easy to connect at least 4 people involved with "My World Fell Down", not to mention a shared recording facility and other shared things like some of the Wrecking Crew, if there were any there who someone could name. What I'd like to know, if anyone has this, is the recording session dates, the release date (not as important), and any similar info on "My World Fell Down" with the dates and such.

But I guess it ultimately comes down to whether you think the record sounds like parts of Smile or not, and I just happen to think it shares some production elements with Smile.

[Alan Smith]

I love Sagittarius. His work with the Byrds was great as well. I wish the 80's sessions with Brian had borne more fruit.

Weather or not My World Fell Down had any parts stolen from SMiLE, I think its an awesome song!

Thank you both for singing it's praises; just checked it out and I'm adding Sagittarius to my MORE PLEASE list!

[guitarfool2002]

Jolly Good!