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Author Topic: The Stephen Desper Thread  (Read 718887 times)
c-man
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« Reply #775 on: February 06, 2007, 04:40:47 AM »

I also believed to hear that steve left the boys around 73 because the boys didnt pay him constant. Steve correct me if i am wrong. Any info about this hidden concert ?

Well, Steve DID come back in '79/'80 to engineer "KTSA" and mix several of their concerts that were broadcast and/or filmed (the aforementioned April 1980 Philly radio show, Knebworth June '80, and Washington DC July '80, the second and third of which featured all six Boys...maybe the DC show is the one he's referring to?).  Well, I don't wanna speculate too much.  Steve will either have to answer this question or make us wait until the right time to find out.  Which means we may have to be patient for awhile.  In the meantime, it is fun to think about.  Personally, I hope it's the Whisky shows.
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« Reply #776 on: February 06, 2007, 05:09:47 AM »

ok C man, i learned something today. Thanks for the info
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« Reply #777 on: February 06, 2007, 02:57:58 PM »

Jeroen,

Any idea where I can see that photo you have as your avatar, but at a larger size?
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Glenn
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« Reply #778 on: February 07, 2007, 04:04:01 AM »

COMMENT TO SLOOP JOHN B

To answer your questions in their order,  It's too bad you did not join earlier.  Before I wrote the 77 pages there were around 250 pages of technical comments about recording the Beach Boys in the early form called cabinessece.com. Those pages never made it over to this thread. I think someone has them in a file.  My copies were all lost because of a incomptent computer repair guy who ereased them.   That is when I decided to put many of those thoughts into my book. 

The matrix device was offered for many months to Beach Boy fans.  It is no long available because a commercial device using the topology and formulas of this device is now on the market.  Price is $1200 and it is not that much different  from that device offered as 360Surround, although the internal parts are high grade and it is adjustable.  The sound is almost identical.  Those folks who have one of these devices have a little jewel of a device. If you are interested in the audiophile product send me an email about the details.

I'm about ready to just give away discs made through the matrix, offered as educational examples to people who bought my book and other fans showing interest in the subject.  It becomes more of a study point because the record company does not issue any of these mixes in their final form.  Since no issues include the matrixed sound, to hear it is more of an educational point, or a point in the history of Beach Boy recording.  So I think I'm on safe ground with respect to the law.  The law allows for copies of songs to be made if they illustrate a particular point about the recording, as a recording.
 

Good Listening ~Stephen W.Desper

Thanks a lot for your answer!

I had already been considering getting a copy of your book, but now it seems that it's an essential buy!  Smiley About the 360Surround device, I may wait a little longer given the relatively high price...  Undecided But it's good to know that it's still available somewhere!
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« Reply #779 on: February 07, 2007, 04:17:39 AM »

TO GLENN GREENBERG

Jeroen,

Any idea where I can see that photo you have as your avatar, but at a larger size?

I've just posted a larger version of Jeroen's avatar in the BB/BW picture thread (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=1990.msg59141#msg59141)! 

Smiley
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« Reply #780 on: February 07, 2007, 10:58:33 AM »

 Cheesy you beat me to it. Glad you like it. Found it somewhere on the web.
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« Reply #781 on: February 18, 2007, 08:48:39 AM »

I'd like to order a copy of Mr. Desper's "Recording the Beach Boys" book, but I can't access the web site anymore. Anyone?
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« Reply #782 on: February 18, 2007, 10:23:25 AM »

Stephen wrote to me in January that I had purchased the very last copy (#570) of the books that he had on hand, and that he has no immediate plans for reprinting.
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« Reply #783 on: February 18, 2007, 11:23:03 AM »

Stephen wrote to me in January that I had purchased the very last copy (#570) of the books that he had on hand, and that he has no immediate plans for reprinting.

Shoot (as our beloved Mike would've said)! Why, oh WHY didn't I buy it  earlier... Oh, well... Thanks for informing me.
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« Reply #784 on: February 28, 2007, 03:24:38 AM »

Hi Mr. Desper. I posted this elswhere on the message board but someone recommend I ask you. I was wondering if you could answer my question. A friend of mine argued that Mike Love's bass vocals at the Child Is Father of The Man section at the tag of "Surf's Up" were heavily processed. When it comes to recording music etc... I'm not very musically inclined but my ear tells me that Mike Love is singing twice in this section (though I'm probably wrong). Anyway, my question is, are Mike Love's backing vocals on this section processed at all?
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« Reply #785 on: March 02, 2007, 11:06:27 PM »

He's definitely double tracked, and also compressed/limited. 
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« Reply #786 on: March 05, 2007, 04:17:12 PM »

Stephen hope you have been well. Listened to a funny Halloween themed track Brian cut in 1970 called My Solution today. Sounded like a fun session, any memories of it?
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #787 on: March 23, 2007, 05:39:01 AM »

Hi Mr. Desper.  are Mike Love's backing vocals on this section processed at all?


COMMENT TO MIKEYJ:  Love is double tracked, but the voice limited by gain-riding, not a machine.  Gain-riding is keeping the dynamics under control by moving the slider yourself. I did this quite often with Mr. Love and on leads. Doing it manually extends the reach of a weak voice without compressing the loud singing.  Michael could hit very low notes with good tonation, but could only sing down low very softly. Sometimes it would take an increase of 20dB to reach his voice and bring it up to the other notes. A machiine could not do this and sound good, but a human can. Using a ribbon mic on Mike helped keep his resonance even, from low to high notes. The reason being that his recorded resonance was more from the microphone than the larynx and therefore was more even, no matter how loudly or softly he sang. Ribbon microphones have what is termed a "proximity effect" which gives a boost to the bass when you sing close to them. The resonance is quite musical and unlike an EQ boost. We used this effect to help bring out the natural resonance in Mike's voice. He learned how to use the effect and "played" the mic when recording.

GENERAL COMMENT:  You can get to the book site here http://community-2.webtv.net/askswd/BookOrderingInfo/ and leave a message concerning a third printing. Just follow instructions on page two.

Good Listening,
  ~Stephen W. Desper
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 05:41:43 AM by Stephen W. Desper » Logged
Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #788 on: March 23, 2007, 05:52:35 AM »

If Steve mixed it and all six are on stage, it might be the 4/18/80 Spectrum show in Philadelphia.

COMMENT TO ANDREW:  I did indeed mix the show.  One of the last times all six Beach Boys were on stage performing at the same time. A good set for sure!  ~swd
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« Reply #789 on: March 23, 2007, 07:09:33 AM »

Hi Mr. Desper.  are Mike Love's backing vocals on this section processed at all?


COMMENT TO MIKEYJ:  Love is double tracked, but the voice limited by gain-riding, not a machine.  Gain-riding is keeping the dynamics under control by moving the slider yourself. I did this quite often with Mr. Love and on leads. Doing it manually extends the reach of a weak voice without compressing the loud singing.  Michael could hit very low notes with good tonation, but could only sing down low very softly. Sometimes it would take an increase of 20dB to reach his voice and bring it up to the other notes. A machiine could not do this and sound good, but a human can. Using a ribbon mic on Mike helped keep his resonance even, from low to high notes. The reason being that his recorded resonance was more from the microphone than the larynx and therefore was more even, no matter how loudly or softly he sang. Ribbon microphones have what is termed a "proximity effect" which gives a boost to the bass when you sing close to them. The resonance is quite musical and unlike an EQ boost. We used this effect to help bring out the natural resonance in Mike's voice. He learned how to use the effect and "played" the mic when recording.

GENERAL COMMENT:  You can get to the book site here http://community-2.webtv.net/askswd/BookOrderingInfo/ and leave a message concerning a third printing. Just follow instructions on page two.

Good Listening,
  ~Stephen W. Desper

Thanks so much for answering my question Mr. Desper, I can tell me friend now that he was wrong Smiley Also, Ive sent an email to you in reference to the third printing notice as I am very keen to get my hands on a copy of your book as those two albums are two of my favourites. Also, ive got another question, I was listening to the Sunflower album a while back and was listening really carefully to everything that was going on (at least trying to). And in "Got To Know The Woman" I heard somebody say "hey" at about 0:49. Do you know who that might be and whats the story of that? Thanks once again.
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« Reply #790 on: March 23, 2007, 11:31:31 AM »

Hi Steve,
You emailed me a while back with an offer to master some of my music. Does the offer still stand?
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« Reply #791 on: March 24, 2007, 08:08:13 AM »

I've posted this elsewhere around the boards, but heck...why not go right to the master?

Stephen, i've just scored a fostex vf80 8-track digital recorder, and i want to record my voice and my Martin guitar, mostly.  I have a Rode NT3, area/choral-type mic, and a Dean-Markley [dark-stained] pickup.  But i am almost positive i can get a better guitar sound with a microphone...and that i can get better vocals with a better/different microphone.

Thoughts?
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« Reply #792 on: April 02, 2007, 05:16:19 PM »

Hi Steve,
You emailed me a while back with an offer to master some of my music. Does the offer still stand?

COMMENT TO KING OF ANGLIA:  I forget what I said, but send me a CD of some of your work and I'll give it a shot. Certainly not going to master anything.  That requires a special studio.  I just meant that I'd pass your CD through some of my equipment to give you an idea of what may be possible.  Send the CD if you like. It may be some time before you get it back. ~swd
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Stephen W. Desper
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« Reply #793 on: April 02, 2007, 06:53:46 PM »

I've posted this elsewhere around the boards, but heck...why not go right to the master?

Stephen, i've just scored a fostex vf80 8-track digital recorder, and i want to record my voice and my Martin guitar, mostly.  I have a Rode NT3, area/choral-type mic, and a Dean-Markley [dark-stained] pickup.  But i am almost positive i can get a better guitar sound with a microphone...and that i can get better vocals with a better/different microphone.

Thoughts?
COMMENT TO SUSAN:  Hello Susan my friend!  The key to understanding how to record the guitar is remembering that the instrument propagates sound from its entire body, the front, back, and sides.

Although most of the sound is from the "sound hole" the bridge also excites the body of the instrument, unless a solid body. This is called Coupling. Coupling simply refers to an interaction between two or more vibrating elements. First of all, on a guitar, the string is excited (plucked or picked) by your fingers, vibrating the bridge, which then goes on to vibrate the soundboard and the internal air cavity, then the back and sides and so on. If these these elements interact well, the whole system is said to be strongly coupled.

The body of the guitar acts so that the high pressure vibrations at the bridge are turned into low pressure vibrations of the surrounding air. This is a form of "impedance matching", in much the same way an electrical transformer raises or lowers a potential difference and is the main principle behind speaker cone design.

The higher frequency (pitch) sounds are produced by string interaction with the bridge and then the sound board, whereas the lower frequencies are essentially driven by the internal air cavity/sound hole and ribs/back coupling effects.

Coupling between parts depends on geometry, sound frequency and the materials used. these all interplay to make a super sounding acoustic guitar such as your Martin.

Using the sound hole pickup may be OK for concert work, but if you want the beauty of the sound to be captured, discard the pickup.

So now on to recording using your new eight-track, which I see as a four-track stereo recorder.

The Rode NT3 is a Hypercardioid which would not be my first or second choice if you came to me for a recording.  I would use two ribbon microphones or perhaps, two condenser microphones using the figure-8 pattern. Place one above the other 90 degrees offset. One microphone will be upsidedown. The ribbon is most suited for the guitar. Most all microphone designs have the lowest distortion figures with the figure-8 pattern, although this is not the reason here for using that pattern.  By the way, using two microphones in an offset double figure-8 array like this is completely mono compatible because both microphone elements occupy the same space at the same time,i.e., one mic is not at a distance from the other.

Using your stereo four-track recorder follow the guidlines on page 36 of my book for Common Time Domain Tracking.

Before we get started let me say that if you record the guitar in stereo and then back the tape up and record your singing in mono placing it in the center, you will get just that. An overall sound that says, I double tracked this. But if you want to have a sound that seems as if you are singing and playing at the same time -- although you may double track it, use the CTDT system.

First lay down stereo tracks of your guitar.  The microphones, in offset figure-8, should be about two or three feet (or more) from the guitar. You must be in a very quiet room. If you wish to bring out harmonics of the instrument, arrange for nearby large objects to reflect the sound from behind you, i.e., a screen, or bookcase, or some boxes.  If you are doing one pass of the guitar, sit in front of the two microphones.  If you wish to double the guitar, place two chairs side by side and sit in the left chair for the original track and in the right chair for the double. Both microphones are used at each pass.  Next, record your singing at around 18 inches to two feet from the microphones' center using a pop screen if you have one. If I remember, you are a rather loud singer so you may need one.  If you are double-ing your voice you may move SLIGHTLY to one side for the first pass and over slightly off-center for the second pass. Again, both microphones are recorded at each pass. Once the levels have been set for the guitar passes and then the vocal passes, the levels are not changed.

See what we have done. First we have captured the sound of the instrument in stereo, that is, we have captured almost all that the instruement can offer with respect to its various vibrating elements. We have allowed the instrument to breath. Second, we have made it seem that all the sound heard in the mix was recording at the same time, i.e., in the same time domain. All the acoustics captured in each pass are identical and sound as if two of you played and sang at the same time.  But we have given the guitar "room" to sound it's best by backing off the microphones.  Then when you sang you came closer, but did not loose the acoustics of the recording area. 

That is how I would do it.  If you only have the one Rode NT3, then use it for each pass and also for your voice.  But that is just three track mono and not a real acoustic recording, IMO.

Hope that helps,
  ~Good Listening, Stephen W. Desper

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« Reply #794 on: April 02, 2007, 07:00:47 PM »

Mr. Desper, I don't want to sound corny or anything, but it is so fantastic that you share your knowledge with us around this site, you have no idea how much some of us appreciate it! As someone who fumbles with (mostly home) recording, your information ranges from interesting to invaluable. You're really almost unbelievable. Thanks.
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« Reply #795 on: April 02, 2007, 09:54:20 PM »

Hi Steve, I hope you're well.

I have some questions for you about monitoring for my, as yet hypothetical, future studio...

I'd love to know your thought/opinions on the best way to go about creating a good monitoring system, on a budget, for tracking, mixing, possibly mastering, "all purpose" I suppose.  I imagine any "control room" that I would be using would not really be acoustically tuned, would probably be a bedroom or something, so I'd set it up on a temporary basis probably, to get the best environment I could.  Any recommendations about signal paths, amplifiers, bi-amping, etc, would be great.

Thanks!
COMMENT TO AEIJTZSCHE:  I haven't forgotton your question. Plan to answer in the near future. ~swd
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« Reply #796 on: April 02, 2007, 11:59:28 PM »

No problem, Steve.  I know you've got a lot going on and you've always answered everything I've asked, so take as much time as you need.  Thanks for the update.  I'm really looking forward to learning some more.
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« Reply #797 on: April 03, 2007, 02:30:51 AM »

Hi Steve,
You emailed me a while back with an offer to master some of my music. Does the offer still stand?

COMMENT TO KING OF ANGLIA:  I forget what I said, but send me a CD of some of your work and I'll give it a shot. Certainly not going to master anything.  That requires a special studio.  I just meant that I'd pass your CD through some of my equipment to give you an idea of what may be possible.  Send the CD if you like. It may be some time before you get it back. ~swd

Okey dokey. Thanks.
Steve
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« Reply #798 on: April 04, 2007, 04:01:22 PM »

Wow - thank, Steve!  This is certainly enough to get started with, and then some!

First to get some ribbon mics... :-/

I will report back as and when events warrant...in the meantime, my friend, be well.  And thanks for sharing your knowledge.  I'm with Luther; your generosity with your knowledge and time is very much appreciated.

S
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« Reply #799 on: April 04, 2007, 04:32:30 PM »

Susan, you might feel better knowing that the price of Ribbon mics are going down, and the quality seems to be getting a little better.  There has been a resurgence of ribbons, and a bunch of companies are offering them now.  They are, of course, cheaper models mostly made in China, but I have been happy with my Nady RSM-2 which is about 200 dollars now, I think.

Of course, at some point in  my life, I would like to have 3 or 4 AEA ribbon mics, that recreate the RCA 44.  They are, of course, 4000 dollars...
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