The Stephen Desper Thread

[mike8902]

What the hell is wrong with you losers? I'm not a hacker and I'm not posing as steve desper. Check the fucking IP addresses if you want. You nerds have no lives at all. I wasn't stirring up trouble I was just expressing my hatred of smiley smile. You people can't listen to  the other side of the argument so you just acuse.

[I. Spaceman]

BYE!

[king of anglia]

Steve the Despmeiser general,
Simulating natural stereo. How?
Say I've got a mono source - a lead guitar line. Normally I would put the dry guitar line panned over to one channel and put a reverbed version of it in the other. It's gives a kinda unusual effect, not natural at all really. You've mentioned processing mono sources into stereo before using comb filtering, echo and such like. Can you give me detailed, practical way to make a mono source into a "natural" sounding stereo THING?

[Glenn Greenberg]

Mr. Desper:

Quick question: Did you do the engineering on the song "San Miguel"?

I have it courtesy of the "Good Vibrations" box set, and it's a great song.

[Stephen W. Desper]

OFF TOPIC, BUT FUN CONCEPT:

>>> with sound >>> http://www.industrial-technology-and-witchcraft.de/movs/roundabout.mov

Thanks to David Kelley

[Stephen W. Desper]

Steve the Despmeiser general,
Simulating natural stereo. How?
Say I've got a mono source - a lead guitar line. Normally I would put the dry guitar line panned over to one channel and put a reverbed version of it in the other. It's gives a kinda unusual effect, not natural at all really. You've mentioned processing mono sources into stereo before using comb filtering, echo and such like. Can you give me detailed, practical way to make a mono source into a "natural" sounding stereo THING?

(1)  Since its a lead guitar line, and I assume you want a BIG sound -- wall to wall -- the first thing that comes to mind is to take a mono feed of the recorded guitar track and feed it back into your recording room, be that a studio or a bedroom.  Take the mono signal and feed it back into a speaker/amp in the room.  Split the same signal and feed that second signal into a short delay line of 10 milliseconds or so, and then into a second amp/speaker in the same room.  Seperate the two amp/speakers several feet.  Next setup two or three microphones in the room -- not right at the amp/speakers, but out in the room six to ten feet from the two amp/speakers.  Try different positions and arrangments of the mics and speakers.  Record the two microphones onto two tracks which you pan hard left and right.  Next blend this "room sound" back with the original "direct" guitar track panned center until you get the blend you like. It's called "re-amping" and it works.

(2)  If you are using computer generated reveb, suggest you use a setting of stereo reverb for "small room" or "living room" and NOT do the left-direct / right-echo thing.  Rather, just use a tight reverb in stereo, blended with the direct guitar sound.   

(3)  Of course you can use a comb filter, but if you don't have one, try ----- take the mono guitar signal and split it.  Feed each side into a 1/2 or 1/3 octave graphic equalizer. Set the band selectors so that all even's of one EQ and all the odd's of the other EQ are fully up and down -- so as to resemble a comb in which the sliders of the EQ's are in alternate boost and cut.  Then take one EQ to the left and one to the right.  That will spread the sound out.  You can add "small room" reverb to that also.

All the above are mono compatible.  Hope that helps.   ~swd 

 

 

 

[Stephen W. Desper]

Mr. Desper:

Quick question: Did you do the engineering on the song "San Miguel"?

I have it courtesy of the "Good Vibrations" box set, and it's a great song.

Yes. ~swd

[Glenn Greenberg]

Mr. Desper:

Quick question: Did you do the engineering on the song "San Miguel"?

I have it courtesy of the "Good Vibrations" box set, and it's a great song.

Yes. ~swd

Thanks for the response, Mr. D!

One more related question: since "San Miguel" wasn't commercially released until WAY after it was recorded, do you know if it ever made it to proper final mix stage? 

The reason I ask is because the sound quality is so different from the Sunflower tracks that are included in the box set.  The Sunflower tracks sound so full, lush, and dynamic, just as they do on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2-fer CD, but "San Miguel" sounds a little murky and limited, almost like it wasn't fully mastered, or perhaps REmastered for the CD format.

Am I off-base on this?

I'd love to make my own version of "Sunflower" on CD, dropping "Tears in the Morning" and replacing it with "San Miguel," but the difference in sound quality is so vast that it's jarring.

Thanks again for your generous time!

[Stephen W. Desper]

[
The reason I ask is because the sound quality is so different from the Sunflower tracks that are included in the box set.  The Sunflower tracks sound so full, lush, and dynamic, just as they do on the Sunflower/Surf's Up 2-fer CD, but "San Miguel" sounds a little murky and limited, almost like it wasn't fully mastered, or perhaps REmastered for the CD format.

I did several mixes with Al, Mike, and Carl and some others in general.  All were considered the "final mix" at the time, then someone would want to do another mix. Then that mix was considered the final mix and on to the shelf it would go.  So I don't know what mix was used on the box set.  It could be that Linett mixed it again.  I just don't know.  As to the difference in sound, it was a very early recording compared to Sunflower. Recorded around town in different studios at various times. I don't think much attention was paid to the stereo-ness of it when it was recorded -- at least to the extent we were giving spatial quality by the time Sunflower rolled around. I don't remember mastering the song.  I remember cutting many acetates of, so-called, final mixes, but not a real mastering session where the matrix lacquer would be shipped to a pressing plant and final pressing samples would be evaluated. ~swd

[king of anglia]

Hi Steve,
It'd be great if you could give us an analysis of some of the unreleased tracks recorded in that period.
My first request would be "Wouldn't it be nice to live again" by Dennis. It is legendary amonst us fans, as it has never been bootlegged. I've heard a cover version of it, and can only imagine the recorded version being overwhemingly lush and emotional.
Any details would greatly appreciated.

[Stephen W. Desper]

COMMENT -- I posted some photos at another thread. ~swd

>>>  http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=713.105

[Big Bri]

Hi Steve,
   Just wondering if you ever got to watch the "Day In the Life..." video that I posted in Reply #292 back on Pg. 20?
Brian

[Stephen W. Desper]

Hi Steve,
   Just wondering if you ever got to watch the "Day In the Life..." video that I posted in Reply #292 back on Pg. 20?
Brian

Yes I did listen to 'Tree at >>> http://www.martylog.com/films/tree.mpg

Looks like he put a lot of time into it.  Too bad the sound is off balance.  It's not my concept of the song, but at least he took the trouble of making a video on the theme of 'Tree, which is more that anyone has done before.  So on that note alone he gets high marks. Trouble is, I get more imagery from just listening to the song than from watching and listening.  In other words, the animation limits my imagination rather than stimulating it. Thanks for the "heads-up."  ~swd

[Big Bri]

Isn't that always the case!
When ever you read a book the visual in your mind is always better than when you see it as a movie.
Brian

[Uncomfortable Seat]

Hi Stephen,

Can you tell me what songs Mike played the Moog ribbon controller on onstage, how long he used this instrument, and where it might be right now?

[Stephen W. Desper]

Hi Stephen,

Can you tell me what songs Mike played the Moog ribbon controller on onstage, how long he used this instrument, and where it might be right now?

Read back, this was answered before -- with pictures too. ~swd

[Uncomfortable Seat]

Hi Stephen,

Can you tell me what songs Mike played the Moog ribbon controller on onstage, how long he used this instrument, and where it might be right now?

Read back, this was answered before -- with pictures too. ~swd

Thanks, but - I think I found the thread you're referring to, and none of my questions are answered in it

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I think it was on the old board, so it should be archived now or soon on Chuck's main site.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Either way, it was only used for GV to my knowledge, probably through the early 70s, but that's just a guess. 

[Jeff Mason]

Nope.  It was also used for Student Demonstration Time live, and I just got some great video (thanks, Chance!) of the band in 1972, the GV in London set, that has Mike with the ribbon controller on camera doing the Tannerin line in Wild Honey (the version that KILLS with Blondie on leads).  Mike also used it for Wild Honey in 1967 concerts, and I would not be surprised to see it trotted out along the way on other tracks.

This isn't even counting Dennis using the Moog with a keyboard controller either.

The Moog setup is very obvious in the Whiskey 1970 photos.  No way that they go to so much trouble setting that up and only use it on one song...

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

I figured if I spewed some completely wrong information somebody would be more likely to correct me than someone taking initiative themselves.   

[Jeff Mason]

Well, if you check your timestamps, you will see how close they are.  I had written one reply then it said that there was a response while I was typing -- so I edited it to respond to you.  In other words, I WAS going to reply anyway...

 

 

[Uncomfortable Seat]

I've read that it was used on California Girls, too.  Also, I was under the impression it could be used independent of the synthesizer setup

[Jeff Mason]

Trying to think of songs I know that use the Moog in keyboard form live...

Funky Pretty DEFINITELY did.  Plainly obvious.  I think that Don't Go Near the Water did as well.  Maybe Feel Flows but the version I have makes it hard to tell.  Also, I don't know whether at any given time Dennis or Daryl or someone else is playing it when I hear it (trying to sort out live keyboards in the early 70's can be a pain, since Carl too occasionally played electric piano, and Bruce wasn't the only organist, though I liked his organ playing best).


Another interesting thing to note from that video I saw.  It has a (poorly aged) full unedited version of GV in Central Park from 1971, and it shows just how badly edited the American Band footage was.  Carl said "do you want to hear an oldie?" before "I Get Around", and Bruce is on bass for Okie From Muskogee.  But there is a version of It's About Time that just soars.  Someone has GOT to release these two shows on DVD before the videotape decays to no repair.

Mr. Desper, were you mixing at either of these shows?  One was Central Park 1971 for ABC, and one was London in 1972 for the BBC.  The latter had Ricky and Blondie and guest Elton John.

[Jeff Mason]

I've read that it was used on California Girls, too.  Also, I was under the impression it could be used independent of the synthesizer setup

Well, SOMETHING has to control it to produce the sounds -- either the ribbon, or a keyboard, or something; otherwise you get random noise.  All synths have some type of controller, and the controller has no purpose outside of the synth.