When/How/Why The Beach Boys were dismissed and dubbed "unhip"?

[guitarfool2002]

1967

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'd say they became (permanently) uncool/unhip the exact moment the first copy of 15 Big Ones was pressed.

Up until that point they'd evolved and had earned some well worked for hip cred and had just proven with Holland that the Beach Boys of 1973 could comfortably stand both apart and aligned with their former dorky selves and still thrive.

.... Then their fans got home, put on 15 Big Ones, and it was over. I love the album but it basically lobbed a huge grenade on the previous 6 years.

[Justin]

Interesting Erik....never thought of 15 Big Ones like that.

I think it's become clear to me that there were a whole series of factors that caused the public to shun The Beach Boys.  In the end, doesn't Jack Riely's quote about the band just sum it up perfectly...to borrow it from Rocker's signature:

"To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public."

Rocker, where exactly is this from?

[MBE]

I think people who looked beyond what idiots like Jann Wienner thought knew The Beach Boys were still great, maybe even better in some ways.. Some people back then just like now enjoyed quality music if it' was hip or not. Besides everybody seems to forget that the run of singles from Barbara Ann to Cottonfields was their most sucessfull period in many Europian countries. LP's like 20/20 sold very well in the UK for example. The hip stuff never seemed to be a factor in other countries to the level it was here. It was commented on sometimes overseas but they stayed on the radio. 

I'll defend the 1967-73 period always, but yes after the 1975 tour with Chicago much of what they did as a group was rather dorky and not in an endearing way. After Dennis was gone it was cheese all the way with maybe two or three exceptions like the Paley/Was stuff or Somewhere Near Japan.

[Mike's Beard]

They blew it with Smiley in 1967 and then they blew it with 15 Big Ones in 1976. Twice they stood on the threshold of becoming one of the biggest bands on the planet and both times they choked.

[filledeplage]

"I don't think The Beach Boys are supposed to be hip. I think they're supposed to move you emotionally whether you like it or not."

Daryl Dragon, 1999

Aye, aye, Captain!

What he said! 

Hip, schmip! They sound great! "Whether you like it, or not."   

[Ron]

Ultimately I don't think hip or cool had much to do with it, it just came down to bad business decisions.  They were as unhip and as uncool as they ever were when Kokomo came out, but it still hit the top of the charts because they supported that song with everything they had.  They also did it without Dennis's coolness.

I've told this story before, but since we're talking about hip and cool this makes the point. 

When I was a kid I was really uncool, I liked old music and loved the Beach Boys, and loved Kokomo.  I remember skating to it at the roller rink. Anyways, one day in school a bunch of kids were picking on me about anything and everything, and the needling of the day was about what was my favorite band.  So I told them their initials were "BB"... so they go "Oh, the Beastie Boys???" eventually I told them I was talking about the Beach Boys, thinking I'd get ridiculded for three weeks over it.... and their response was

"Oh! They're cool."

lol

[I. Spaceman]

Except for the world of musicians, The Beach Boys were never considered hip. They are only considered hip now because of Pet Sounds and Smile, and even that is only to a minority of people. I've known plenty of Beatles/Stones-type music listeners from that time, and nearly every one told me that back then, they didn't want to admit liking anything by The Beach Boys. Strict guilty pleasure, along the lines of The Monkees.

[Ron]

I guess it's similar but I think most people after they look at it would be much more fond of the Beach Boys than the Monkees, simply because of quantity of hit songs.  I think more people grew up (even now!) knowing TONS of Beach Boys songs, plus identifying them with the summer, than grew up knowing more than 3 or 4 Monkees songs. 

Love the Monkees though. 

[I. Spaceman]

Well, I think nearly all those people secretly loved The Beach Boys, and only "came out of the closet" when Paul McCartney made it safe for them. I should also clarify that I am only talking about the US.

[drbeachboy]

Well, I think nearly all those people secretly loved The Beach Boys, and only "came out of the closet" when Paul McCartney made it safe for them. I should also clarify that I am only talking about the US.

Exactly. This perception issue is strickly here in the U.S..

[Jon Stebbins]

Except for the world of musicians, The Beach Boys were never considered hip. They are only considered hip now because of Pet Sounds and Smile, and even that is only to a minority of people. I've known plenty of Beatles/Stones-type music listeners from that time, and nearly every one told me that back then, they didn't want to admit liking anything by The Beach Boys. Strict guilty pleasure, along the lines of The Monkees.

Not true. The Beach Boys were a hip trend in '62/'63. There wasn't anything on the national scene like them. You gotta remember they were THE top rock act in the U.S. in '63, and they were kind of grungy compared to anything else that was mainstream. They definitely were considered hip then, especially compared to clean-cut stuff like Elvis, Everlys, Bobby Rydell, Rick Nelson, Four Seasons etc... The Beach Boys were like punk rock in comparison to what was around. The Beatles changed that a year later.

[oldsurferdude]

I'd say they became (permanently) uncool/unhip the exact moment the first copy of 15 Big Ones was pressed.

Up until that point they'd evolved and had earned some well worked for hip cred and had just proven with Holland that the Beach Boys of 1973 could comfortably stand both apart and aligned with their former dorky selves and still thrive.

.... Then their fans got home, put on 15 Big Ones, and it was over. I love the album but it basically lobbed a huge grenade on the previous 6 years.

Absolutely correct-well said-however , as uncool as they may have been they still filled auditoriums for awhile.

[donald]

Except for the world of musicians, The Beach Boys were never considered hip. They are only considered hip now because of Pet Sounds and Smile, and even that is only to a minority of people. I've known plenty of Beatles/Stones-type music listeners from that time, and nearly every one told me that back then, they didn't want to admit liking anything by The Beach Boys. Strict guilty pleasure, along the lines of The Monkees.

Not true. The Beach Boys were a hip trend in '62/'63. There wasn't anything on the national scene like them. You gotta remember they were THE top rock act in the U.S. in '63, and they were kind of grungy compared to anything else that was mainstream. They definitely were considered hip then, especially compared to clean-cut stuff like Elvis, Everlys, Bobby Rydell, Rick Nelson, Four Seasons etc... The Beach Boys were like punk rock in comparison to what was around. The Beatles changed that a year later.

Jon, I agree totally, but, when the Beatles hit they DID NOT look cool.   Talk about dorky outfits.  Glad the Boys didn't try to copy THAT.  They would have looked  as dorky as the Young Rascals on their first albums.    Would have been even worse than the white suits.

I liked the analogy of an earlier poster on this thread who said the Beatles were like a meteor, bright across a trajectory and then gone while the Beachboys have been like the north star, always there and sometimes, when the clouds part, you look up and they are still there, shining as always.

One other thing I would point out about the Beachboys loosing popularity in the later 60's is that a LOT of bands lost popularity and some totally disappeared after the British invasion.  Some of the hip bands, garage band sensations,  and would-be Beatles of the period were gone in a short time.  Whereas, the Beachboys resurfaced as a major league touring band and the darlings of Rolling Stone Magazine in the early 70's.    Something seriously misfired after the release of Endless Summer but certainly their economic fortunes were cemented forever with that album and the release of the Movie American Graffitti.  It has become commonplace, even to this day,  for the Beachboys songs to be featured in movies.  And people just can't seem to get enough of those repackaged compilations.

[I. Spaceman]

Except for the world of musicians, The Beach Boys were never considered hip. They are only considered hip now because of Pet Sounds and Smile, and even that is only to a minority of people. I've known plenty of Beatles/Stones-type music listeners from that time, and nearly every one told me that back then, they didn't want to admit liking anything by The Beach Boys. Strict guilty pleasure, along the lines of The Monkees.

Not true. The Beach Boys were a hip trend in '62/'63. There wasn't anything on the national scene like them. You gotta remember they were THE top rock act in the U.S. in '63, and they were kind of grungy compared to anything else that was mainstream. They definitely were considered hip then, especially compared to clean-cut stuff like Elvis, Everlys, Bobby Rydell, Rick Nelson, Four Seasons etc... The Beach Boys were like punk rock in comparison to what was around. The Beatles changed that a year later.

Yes, good point, I was definitely referring to the post-Beatles world. The Boys were definitely at the cutting edge of rock before that. I did, however, meet a couple who used to dance at the Rendezvous Ballroom while Dick Dale played, among other surf acts in that era, and they were as snooty as anyone regarding the Boys, claiming that they were "fake surf" and ruined the genre.

[guitarfool2002]

You'll get fans like that in many genres, I know many may have felt that way about the early Beach Boys and surf music, and to some degree they were justified, but at the same time Brian and the BB's eventually transcended the "surf music" genre and created the California mythology for millions of kids who are still seduced by the imagery.

At the same time I wonder how true all of the hardcore surf fandom really was, because I was blown away recently by seeing a video of the well-groomed young Chantays performing Pipeline on the Lawrence Welk Show in the early 60's, where I had assumed the Chantays were part of that hardcore surf-garage ethic and were more underground despite a national hit. Maybe I bought into the myth because it fit the sound of that record. For the record, I think "Pipeline" is one of the best records I've ever heard, but I'd never guess I'd see them on the Welk show at that time.

[Jon Stebbins]

Except for the world of musicians, The Beach Boys were never considered hip. They are only considered hip now because of Pet Sounds and Smile, and even that is only to a minority of people. I've known plenty of Beatles/Stones-type music listeners from that time, and nearly every one told me that back then, they didn't want to admit liking anything by The Beach Boys. Strict guilty pleasure, along the lines of The Monkees.

Not true. The Beach Boys were a hip trend in '62/'63. There wasn't anything on the national scene like them. You gotta remember they were THE top rock act in the U.S. in '63, and they were kind of grungy compared to anything else that was mainstream. They definitely were considered hip then, especially compared to clean-cut stuff like Elvis, Everlys, Bobby Rydell, Rick Nelson, Four Seasons etc... The Beach Boys were like punk rock in comparison to what was around. The Beatles changed that a year later.

Yes, good point, I was definitely referring to the post-Beatles world. The Boys were definitely at the cutting edge of rock before that. I did, however, meet a couple who used to dance at the Rendezvous Ballroom while Dick Dale played, among other surf acts in that era, and they were as snooty as anyone regarding the Boys, claiming that they were "fake surf" and ruined the genre.

Right, that's why I said "on the national scene"...as you pointed out there was a relatively small regional core in So Cal who would not of thought of the Beach Boys as hip...but there were people who danced at the Cavern who thought the Beatles were sell-outs too...so I guess in the big picture that's fairly meaningless, but notable.

[guitarfool2002]

What is hip? As mentioned in my post, here's The Chantays miming "Pipeline" on the Lawrence Welk Show, 1963 from YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo

One of the best records ever made, one of the most hip and dark and imposing instrumentals ever recorded, some of the best Fender sounds ever captured on tape...does your image of the band or the record match the video image, and if so or if not, does it matter?

(Note similarity to the Beach Boys' dance moves...)

[Justin]

Okay, well, I see now that almost all my questions could have been answered had I read the What's Wrong? Artistic Missteps by The Beach Boys chapter in Jon Stebbins' The Beach Boys FAQ Book! Like I said earlier, I had just gotten the book and I"m skipping around...but didn't see get to that chapter when I started the thread  

Anyway, I think we had a great discussion here!

[guitarfool2002]

Okay, well, I see now that almost all my questions could have been answered had I read the What's Wrong? Artistic Missteps by The Beach Boys chapter in Jon Stebbins' The Beach Boys FAQ Book! Like I said earlier, I had just gotten the book and I"m skipping around...but didn't see get to that chapter when I started the thread  

Anyway, I think we had a great discussion here!

If everyone has the book, just lock the thread. Nothing left to discuss here.

(joking... )

[Justin]

haha this thread was a great way to complement the chapter in the FAQ book...and a lot of the info said here was touched on in that chapter and I recognized most of the points discussed because of this thread.  Regardless, this board still hasn't failed me when I'm in need of info!

[donald]

What is hip? As mentioned in my post, here's The Chantays miming "Pipeline" on the Lawrence Welk Show, 1963 from YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo

One of the best records ever made, one of the most hip and dark and imposing instrumentals ever recorded, some of the best Fender sounds ever captured on tape...does your image of the band or the record match the video image, and if so or if not, does it matter?

(Note similarity to the Beach Boys' dance moves...)

Ever see the scene in More American Graffitti where Pipeline is playing as the helicopters buzz accross the Vietnam landscape?