Brian's production on Sunflower

[busy doin nothin]

In another thread, it was mentioned that Brian's production efforts on Sunflower have generally been overstated.  This got me thinking.  I assumed the tracks on that album were produced as follows:

Slip on Through -- Dennis

This Whole World -- Brian

Add Some Music -- Brian

Got to Know the Woman -- Dennis

Deirdre -- Bruce

It's About Time -- Carl or Dennis

Tears in the Morning -- Bruce

All I Wanna Do -- Brian

Forever -- Dennis

Our Sweet Love -- Brian

At My Window -- Brian

Cool Cool Water -- Brian

I'm not basing this on any particular knowledge, really, just the songwriting credits.  Does my list overstate Brian's involvement?  Did Carl really produce some of the tracks I'm crediting to Brian?  I'd be curious to know folks' insight and knowledge on this.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

It's probably something more like this:

Slip on Through -- Dennis

This Whole World -- Carl and Brian

Add Some Music -- Brian

Got to Know the Woman -- Dennis

Deirdre -- Bruce

It's About Time -- Carl or Dennis

Tears in the Morning -- Bruce

All I Wanna Do -- Carl (at least he's credited as such on the original tape tracklist)

Forever -- Dennis

Our Sweet Love -- Brian and Carl

At My Window -- Al, originally as the Raspberries Strawberries cover.

Cool Cool Water -- Carl and Brian

Carl essentially produced the record from top to bottom, in terms of the more nitty-gritty stuff.  Brian and Dennis no doubt directed the musicians at the sessions for their songs, but Carl was ultimately responsible for what was produced to tape.  From what I understand Brian never saw a production through from start to finish at this point in his life.  He would bring a song to the table, start production, but generally Carl would finish it up.

[busy doin nothin]

It's probably something more like this:

Slip on Through -- Dennis

This Whole World -- Carl and Brian

Add Some Music -- Brian

Got to Know the Woman -- Dennis

Deirdre -- Bruce

It's About Time -- Carl or Dennis

Tears in the Morning -- Bruce

All I Wanna Do -- Carl (at least he's credited as such on the original tape tracklist)

Forever -- Dennis

Our Sweet Love -- Brian and Carl

At My Window -- Al, originally as the Raspberries Strawberries cover.

Cool Cool Water -- Carl and Brian

Carl essentially produced the record from top to bottom, in terms of the more nitty-gritty stuff.  Brian and Dennis no doubt directed the musicians at the sessions for their songs, but Carl was ultimately responsible for what was produced to tape.  From what I understand Brian never saw a production through from start to finish at this point in his life.  He would bring a song to the table, start production, but generally Carl would finish it up.

Very, very interesting, aeijtzsche.  Thanks for the post.  When you say "at this point in his life," I assume that covers through "Holland."   Is "'Til I Die" an exception, or did Carl have to finish that one up as well?

And what about prior to Sunflower?  Does the same hold true for tracks like Do It Again, Time to Get Alone, and I Went to Sleep, or did Brian see any of them all the way through?  How about the seemingly heavily Brian-centric tracks on Friends, like Busy Doin' Nothin' and Passing By?

Sorry about all the questions, but I find this a fascinating topic.

[punkinhead]

i always thought brian produced Deidre. Or did he just write it, if not all, what did he write of it?

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Very, very interesting, aeijtzsche.  Thanks for the post.  When you say "at this point in his life," I assume that covers through "Holland."   Is "'Til I Die" an exception, or did Carl have to finish that one up as well?

And what about prior to Sunflower?  Does the same hold true for tracks like Do It Again, Time to Get Alone, and I Went to Sleep, or did Brian see any of them all the way through?  How about the seemingly heavily Brian-centric tracks on Friends, like Busy Doin' Nothin' and Passing By?

I think that Friends was kind of the last album where Brian might complete an entire production more or less on his own.  From what I get from Steve Desper and some things Carl had said, the 20/20 stuff was more like Sunflower.  I think Do It Again was probably equal parts Carl, Brian and Desper.  Brian was at the mixdown session at Capitol, at least.

'Til I Die and A Day in the Life of a Tree seem to be Brian-run shows.  However, it sounds to me like Brian was probably not involved in the final mixes of those, but was heavily involved in the tracking.

i always thought brian produced Deidre. Or did he just write it, if not all, what did he write of it?

No, Bruce wrote and produced Deirdre.  Brian contributed a couple of small ideas but Bruce magnanimously elected to split the credit with Brian half and half.

[busy doin nothin]

Very, very interesting, aeijtzsche.  Thanks for the post.  When you say "at this point in his life," I assume that covers through "Holland."   Is "'Til I Die" an exception, or did Carl have to finish that one up as well?

And what about prior to Sunflower?  Does the same hold true for tracks like Do It Again, Time to Get Alone, and I Went to Sleep, or did Brian see any of them all the way through?  How about the seemingly heavily Brian-centric tracks on Friends, like Busy Doin' Nothin' and Passing By?

I think that Friends was kind of the last album where Brian might complete an entire production more or less on his own.  From what I get from Steve Desper and some things Carl had said, the 20/20 stuff was more like Sunflower.  I think Do It Again was probably equal parts Carl, Brian and Desper.  Brian was at the mixdown session at Capitol, at least.

'Til I Die and A Day in the Life of a Tree seem to be Brian-run shows.  However, it sounds to me like Brian was probably not involved in the final mixes of those, but was heavily involved in the tracking.

i always thought brian produced Deidre. Or did he just write it, if not all, what did he write of it?

No, Bruce wrote and produced Deirdre.  Brian contributed a couple of small ideas but Bruce magnanimously elected to split the credit with Brian half and half.

Thanks again, aeijtzsche.  This is the kind of information one can only get on these boards, as far as I know.

One other question I've been wondering about lately.  Carl seems to have been a really great producer who came into his own in the early 70s.  Why did he stop producing for the Beach Boys?  He gave way to Brian in the "Brian's Back" period, which is understandable, but then when Brian receded into the background again, Carl never tried to retake the reins.  Is it because he was too much at loggerheads with Mike in the late 70s?  It just seems too bad Carl didn't have more input starting with MIU.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Carl really produced most of Love You.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Yeah, it would seem that Carl ended up finishing up after Brian on Love You as well, however, it has to be said that Brian brought a lot more to the table in terms of tracking than he had for quite some time.  But Carl was left to produce the mixdowns.

Is it because he was too much at loggerheads with Mike in the late 70s?

Yeah, the factionalized blocs lessened Carl's input for sure.

[Roger Ryan]

Carl is barely on "MIU" as he decided not to go Iowa as I recall (same story with Dennis). The "LA" album and "Keepin' The Summer Alive" came at a time when Carl was starting up his own solo career and I imagine Bruce Johnston was deemed a good intermediary to keep everybody happy. I'm certain that CBS probably insisted the band work with a hot producer for 85's "The Beach Boys" which is how Steve Levine managed to create the worst produced BB album of all time. Did anyone care by the time "Summer In Paradise" was made? Certainly not Carl. After "Holland", we pretty much have a few isolated tracks like "Good Timin'", the finishing work he did on "Love You", the two solo albums and finally the Beckley, Lamm & Wilson material to judge Carl's production work on. Not much really.

[Glenn Greenberg]

Did Brian go to Iowa for the MIU album?

[punkinhead]

I heard he did but didnt enjoy himself. Which Brian would you rather hang out with? the one that went to MIU or Holland?   The latter sounds better...more creative...

[Glenn Greenberg]

I heard he did but didnt enjoy himself. Which Brian would you rather hang out with? the one that went to MIU or Holland?   The latter sounds better...more creative...

But from what I hear, he was also more reclusive--the Beach Boys barely saw Brian the entire time they were all in Holland. He'd go into the studio in the middle of the night, after everyone was gone.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I'd rather go to the Netherlands than visit Iowa, but that's neither here nor there! 

[Aegir]

Did anyone ever read that blurb that I think came from some Holland press book or something, how it took like four tries to get Brian to Holland, how they would put him on the plane but by the time the plane was taking off he wouldn't be in his seat and then he'd sleep in the airport that night so no one would find him?

Don't think he enjoyed Holland that much, either.