Smile Sessions vs. Smiley Smile

[I. Spaceman]

The middle section of "Wonderful" on Smiley is disturbing because of the chatter.  It has a sick, high school locker-room tone to it that is not at all appropriate for the song into which it intrudes.  That's one of the hardest things for me to take about Smiley Smile.  And yet, even that did not keep me from recognizing the greatness of the song when I first heard it.

I believe that is the entire point of the interlude. It presents the "locker-room tone" that symbolizes the band itself. The high voice takes the part of the voices inside Brain's head. Both intruding right into the middle of a song that perhaps best exemplifies Brian's fragile SMiLE art-world. That Smiley trashing of Wonderful is Brian's own commentary on the end of the SMiLE project, whether subconscious or not.

[Reverend Rock]

The middle section of "Wonderful" on Smiley is disturbing because of the chatter.  It has a sick, high school locker-room tone to it that is not at all appropriate for the song into which it intrudes.  That's one of the hardest things for me to take about Smiley Smile.  And yet, even that did not keep me from recognizing the greatness of the song when I first heard it.

I believe that is the entire point of the interlude. It presents the "locker-room tone" that symbolizes the band itself. The high voice takes the part of the voices inside Brain's head. Both intruding right into the middle of a song that perhaps best exemplifies Brian's fragile SMiLE art-world. That Smiley trashing of Wonderful is Brian's own commentary on the end of the SMiLE project, whether subconscious or not.

You may well be right on that.  Brian was doing a lot of truly brutal self-parody at that point, such as the scathing critique of "Heroes and Villains" that he put into the mouth of Mike Love during the Leid In Hawaii sessions.  But that makes the whole matter even more disturbing for me, to be honest.

[I. Spaceman]

The middle section of "Wonderful" on Smiley is disturbing because of the chatter.  It has a sick, high school locker-room tone to it that is not at all appropriate for the song into which it intrudes.  That's one of the hardest things for me to take about Smiley Smile.  And yet, even that did not keep me from recognizing the greatness of the song when I first heard it.

I believe that is the entire point of the interlude. It presents the "locker-room tone" that symbolizes the band itself. The high voice takes the part of the voices inside Brain's head. Both intruding right into the middle of a song that perhaps best exemplifies Brian's fragile SMiLE art-world. That Smiley trashing of Wonderful is Brian's own commentary on the end of the SMiLE project, whether subconscious or not.

You may well be right on that.  Brian was doing a lot of truly brutal self-parody at that point, such as the scathing critique of "Heroes and Villains" that he put into the mouth of Mike Love during the Leid In Hawaii sessions.  But that makes the whole matter even more disturbing for me, to be honest.

Oh yes, absolutely it is disturbing. But I don't think music, and specifically, the music of The Beach Boys, should never be disturbing. Much of their 1966-1971 output is, in varying degrees, and I think it gives their music and image a welcome three-dimensional quality. That is what brought me into the fold as a fan, anyway, and many fans I have met along the way.

[Paul J B]

Smiley Smile is a train wreck pure and simple. A year's worth of brilliant music/vocals/arrangements during TSS and then they put this out and people to this day wonder what caused the Beach Boys to fall off of the music scene in popularity overnight?

Brian was done when he did not finish Smile. Anyone who listens to Smiley and does not reach that conclusion is delusional.

I would add to Carl's statement about Smiley being "a bunt instead of a grand slam" and say that it was a bunt that ended in a double play instead of advancing the runner. Brian and the Boys were both out.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Brian was done when he did not finish Smile. Anyone who listens to Smiley and does not reach that conclusion is delusional.

I love Smiley. You're getting pure Brian Wilson, think Well Tempered Clavier. In a lot of ways I prefer it to SMiLE. I love both.  And sorry, if you say Brain was done after SMiLE then you're delusional. Wild Honey? Friends?

There are a lot of different opinions on this board. Try to respect this. Calling people delusional for not thinking the same as you is highly confrontational. You wouldn't want to get labelled as a troll or anything after just 4 posts!

[Alex]

Let me just say this: LITTLE PAD ROCKS!!  And to respond to Newguy a few posts back, I think a majority of us veteran fans have heard Sandy/Sherry/She Says She Needs Me. Summer Days outtake, worked on in 15BO era, revamped for Imagination. AGD`s website would have more detailed info.

[Paul J B]

Brian was done when he did not finish Smile. Anyone who listens to Smiley and does not reach that conclusion is delusional.

I love Smiley. You're getting pure Brian Wilson, think Well Tempered Clavier. In a lot of ways I prefer it to SMiLE. I love both.  And sorry, if you say Brain was done after SMiLE then you're delusional. Wild Honey? Friends?

There are a lot of different opinions on this board. Try to respect this. Calling people delusional for not thinking the same as you is highly confrontational. You wouldn't want to get labelled as a troll or anything after just 4 posts!

No, I wouldn't. Would you want to be labeled as condescending and easily offended after 751 posts? I would argue implying I'm a troll is confrontational.

Getting back to my point, "pure Brian" is the guy in the background telling dozens of people what to do during TSS in my opinion. The guy who took astonishingly brilliant pieces of music and complex vocals and stripped them down to nonsense like Smiley's Wonderful and Vegetables is a guy who was pretty much done. Again, I guess I should clarify IMO.

For the record, I saw the Beach Boys live about 18 times between 1975 and 1997. I've seen Brian live 5 times since Imagination was released. I own almost all of their regular released albums on both vinyl and CD. I have been posting under the same user name as I use here on the SD board for a few years and have been reading over there for more than ten. Due to the Smile release I've since been reading a ton over here.

So no I'm not a troll. I just happen to be another person in agreement with those that feel albums like Smiley and Love You are not very good.

[SMiLE Brian]

Brian was done when he did not finish Smile. Anyone who listens to Smiley and does not reach that conclusion is delusional.

I love Smiley. You're getting pure Brian Wilson, think Well Tempered Clavier. In a lot of ways I prefer it to SMiLE. I love both.  And sorry, if you say Brain was done after SMiLE then you're delusional. Wild Honey? Friends?

There are a lot of different opinions on this board. Try to respect this. Calling people delusional for not thinking the same as you is highly confrontational. You wouldn't want to get labelled as a troll or anything after just 4 posts!

No, I wouldn't. Would you want to be labeled as condescending and easily offended after 751 posts? I would argue implying I'm a troll is confrontational.

Getting back to my point, "pure Brian" is the guy in the background telling dozens of people what to do during TSS in my opinion. The guy who took astonishingly brilliant pieces of music and complex vocals and stripped them down to nonsense like Smiley's Wonderful and Vegetables is a guy who was pretty much done. Again, I guess I should clarify IMO.

For the record, I saw the Beach Boys live about 18 times between 1975 and 1997. I've seen Brian live 5 times since Imagination was released. I own almost all of their regular released albums on both vinyl and CD. I have been posting under the same user name as I use here on the SD board for a few years and have been reading over there for more than ten. Due to the Smile release I've since been reading a ton over here.

So no I'm not a troll. I just happen to be another person in agreement with those that feel albums like Smiley and Love You are not very good.

Brian's work on wild honey, friends, 20/20 and sunflower show a man far from washed up musically. The limited work he did on Surf's up, CATP, and Holland were great as well. Granted, the lyrics on love you are rough sometimes, but the backing tracks are as great as ever even with Brian getting a different sound from instruments like the moog. 

[Chris Moise]

The middle section of "Wonderful" on Smiley is disturbing because of the chatter.  It has a sick, high school locker-room tone to it that is not at all appropriate for the song into which it intrudes.  That's one of the hardest things for me to take about Smiley Smile.  And yet, even that did not keep me from recognizing the greatness of the song when I first heard it.

I believe that is the entire point of the interlude. It presents the "locker-room tone" that symbolizes the band itself. The high voice takes the part of the voices inside Brain's head. Both intruding right into the middle of a song that perhaps best exemplifies Brian's fragile SMiLE art-world. That Smiley trashing of Wonderful is Brian's own commentary on the end of the SMiLE project, whether subconscious or not.

Brilliant analysis!

[Newguy562]

Let me just say this: LITTLE PAD ROCKS!!  And to respond to Newguy a few posts back, I think a majority of us veteran fans have heard Sandy/Sherry/She Says She Needs Me. Summer Days outtake, worked on in 15BO era, revamped for Imagination. AGD`s website would have more detailed info.

thank you but do any of you have the song?

[Puggal]

I really liked Smiley Smile, despite its numerous flaws, until I heard The Smiley Sessions. Then it became obsolete.

The real question is The Smile Sessions vs BWPS.

[sidewinder572]

Smiley Smile is a great album, however you have to let it grow on you. My introduction to the SMiLE music was BWPS and my introduction to the BB versions was the Good Vibrations box set. I had never heard SS so I went into it thinking that it would simply be slightly different versions of the Smile songs. What I heard of course wasn't that at all. With the exception of Good Vibrations and maybe Heroes and Villains all songs were stripped down to their bare minimum. My initial reaction was that it was a piece of crap. That opinion of course has changed. While I don't feel it's by any means a masterpiece on par with Pet Sounds and Smile. It is a great little album. The kind to just relax to.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Brian was done when he did not finish Smile. Anyone who listens to Smiley and does not reach that conclusion is delusional.

I love Smiley. You're getting pure Brian Wilson, think Well Tempered Clavier. In a lot of ways I prefer it to SMiLE. I love both.  And sorry, if you say Brain was done after SMiLE then you're delusional. Wild Honey? Friends?

There are a lot of different opinions on this board. Try to respect this. Calling people delusional for not thinking the same as you is highly confrontational. You wouldn't want to get labelled as a troll or anything after just 4 posts!

No, I wouldn't. Would you want to be labeled as condescending and easily offended after 751 posts? I would argue implying I'm a troll is confrontational.

Getting back to my point, "pure Brian" is the guy in the background telling dozens of people what to do during TSS in my opinion. The guy who took astonishingly brilliant pieces of music and complex vocals and stripped them down to nonsense like Smiley's Wonderful and Vegetables is a guy who was pretty much done. Again, I guess I should clarify IMO.

For the record, I saw the Beach Boys live about 18 times between 1975 and 1997. I've seen Brian live 5 times since Imagination was released. I own almost all of their regular released albums on both vinyl and CD. I have been posting under the same user name as I use here on the SD board for a few years and have been reading over there for more than ten. Due to the Smile release I've since been reading a ton over here.

So no I'm not a troll. I just happen to be another person in agreement with those that feel albums like Smiley and Love You are not very good.

That's cool, a far different post from "anyone who disagrees with me is delusional" That more than warranted a condescending reply. Maybe I should develop a thicker skin, but....no, I like the way I see things.

You're obviously more a production man. Fair enough. I tend to listen more to the actual written music. In those terms, Smiley is equally as brilliant as SMiLE.

Different strokes.

[Paul J B]

[/quote]

That's cool, a far different post from "anyone who disagrees with me is delusional" That more than warranted a condescending reply. Maybe I should develop a thicker skin, but....no, I like the way I see things.

You're obviously more a production man. Fair enough. I tend to listen more to the actual written music. In those terms, Smiley is equally as brilliant as SMiLE.

Different strokes.


[/quote]

Agreed. In hindsight I guess delusional was too strong of a word. Sorry.

My whole thing that has me fascinated since receiving the boxset started with Brian's '67 Surf's Up solo that blew me away. The fact that he was still the Smile Brian (the Brian that made him and the BB's who they were up to then) on that and it was recorded after Smiley really has me puzzled. From Smiley on, IMO, the released albums to me reek of Brian not caring and holding back. Not just the fact that he was no longer the main production man, but because of the very way he sings and everything else.

And I will agree that Smiley is unlike anything else, and some parts are hauntingly bizarre and get into your head after a few listens which can make it appealing to some people. What gets me is that Brian shelved his masterpiece, one long held excuse from Brian himself being it was "inappropriate or ahead of it's time" and yet he released Smiley.

I'm in agreement with those who believe shelving Smile was Brian's and the Beach Boys demise.