Wow...Mike, Al and Dave Reunion!

[mammy blue]

Why do some fans seem to think that Brian owes them something more than we've already been given?  

Why, indeed. Brian, BTW, has been working very hard promoting the new box set release, which you wouldn't even know it existed if you recently attended one of Mike's shows. The "band" clearly wants to just keep doing what they're comfortable doing, so why shouldn't Brian? The other guys need Brian a lot more than he needs them nowadays.

[oldsurferdude]

Why do some fans seem to think that Brian owes them something more than we've already been given?  

Why, indeed. Brian, BTW, has been working very hard promoting the new box set release, which you wouldn't even know it existed if you recently attended one of Mike's shows. The "band" clearly wants to just keep doing what they're comfortable doing, so why shouldn't Brian? The other guys need Brian a lot more than he needs them nowadays.

 

[drbeachboy]

Why do some fans seem to think that Brian owes them something more than we've already been given? 

Why, indeed. Brian, BTW, has been working very hard promoting the new box set release, which you wouldn't even know it existed if you recently attended one of Mike's shows. The "band" clearly wants to just keep doing what they're comfortable doing, so why shouldn't Brian? The other guys need Brian a lot more than he needs them nowadays.

The Beach Boys name will sell more than anything put out solo by any of the individuals. BWPS may be the one exceptiion in a 50 year career. Too, Brian makes a lot of money off what Mike comfortably does. It is done that way by agreement of which Brian is also a part of.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

The legacy belongs to The Beach Boys too. Including Carl, and Dennis who I dare anyone to accuse of not deserving it. Say what you will about Mike.

These guys, formed the band with Brian, went to bat for the band, showed up for the damn gigs, sang like angels, played their instruments, wrote songs for the band/lyrics, sang wonderful leads with each member's personality and voice being distinct with the public. How in hell does this belong to Brian and Brian only! How come you never hear anyone yelling and screaming that The Rolling Stones are JUST Mick and Keith. How come Charlie, Bill, Mick Taylor, Ron Wood all get back slapped with great acclaim, yet Dennis, Carl, Dave, Bruce, Mike, Al are accused of being coattail riders to the guy who's barely shown his face onstage for the band's entire damn career? It sickens me! Some people just can't deal when the word genius is tossed around! YES YES YES Brian IS A  F*ck#ng GENIUS! Get over it! Move on! Brian was a freaking genius IN A BAND!!!!! A band that could survive and thrive with or without him, not to mention!!!! Sure is an easy thing for a bunch of no-talents to manage, right?

Ok, where's my bottle of scotch?

Hold on a sec.  Wirestone rightfully responded to the absurd comment that Brian needs to go out and claim the Beach Boys' legacy.  He doesn't.  He has nothing to prove to anyone at this stage in his career, no matter how many fans might desperately want to see this reunion.  Anyone who knows anything about the band knows that Brian was the driving creative force, the author of most of their best music and the architect of their sound.  This is certainly not to diminish the considerable contributions of the other members.  Yes, Brian needed the band to help realize his vision.  Those songs required the lovely, complex group harmonies to really flourish.  He needed a confident front man like Mike to go out there and sell it to the audience.  And of course, as Brian's personal problems caught up to him, the rest of the band had to pick up the slack--first in terms of their live performances and eventually in terms of the songwriting/arrangements too.  Still, the Beach Boys would not exist without Brian's vision.  

"Brian Wilson is the Beach Boys. He is the band. We're his f*cking messengers. He is all of it. Period." --Dennis Wilson

Maybe he just doesn't want to do the reunion, doesn't feel that all of the stress and anxiety is worth the reward.  Maybe he feels like he can express himself better as a solo artist than he can within the complicated interpersonal/business constraints of the Beach Boys.  This isn't to say that he's somehow crapping on the Beach Boys legacy, just that the old band format doesn't work for him anymore.  Why try to force the old guy out for a nostalgia tour when his heart's clearly not in it?  Wouldn't that potentially do more harm to the legacy than sitting it out?  Why do some fans seem to think that Brian owes them something more than we've already been given?  

I don't buy the "Brian's vision" line either. Not as the whole story. How many times on this board has someone written something along the lines of (myself included) "Yes, Brian needed the band to help realize his vision.  Those songs required the lovely, complex group harmonies to really flourish.  He needed a confident front man like Mike to go out there and sell it to the audience.  And of course, as Brian's personal problems caught up to him, the rest of the band had to pick up the slack--first in terms of their live performances and eventually in terms of the songwriting/arrangements too"? ..... Just isolate that sentence and think about it for a moment. That line represents a sizable chunk of what the Beach Boys are and I don't see the logic of stating such and then going, yeah, yeah, well, sure, but, but.... it's all about Brian's vision! Hell, we all have visions and grand schemes and plans and great novels we'd love to write, great movies we'd love to direct, classic albums we'd like to write and produce, but we can't do it all on our own. Brian had vision but he also had a lot of motivation fostered upon him by the other Beach Boys. He had these guys who's voices blended so wonderfully, he had a Chuck Berry obsessed, guitar playing little brother, he had a cocky/confident lead singer in Mike who had the nerve to put himself out in front, he had Dennis who somehow managed to learn to bash the drums very well seemingly overnight. he had Al, not even a relation, but who somehow sounded liked he belonged in harmony with the others, he had Mike (and others) providing lyrics and the narrative/emotional identity for a great number of the songs: in other words he had a band! Give these guys their due.

[mammy blue]

The Beach Boys name will sell more than anything put out solo by any of the individuals. BWPS may be the one exceptiion in a 50 year career. Too, Brian makes a lot of money off what Mike comfortably does. It is done that way by agreement of which Brian is also a part of.

I'm pretty sure POB outsold some late 70s BB releases of the time, at least by some measures. The "Beach Boys", BTW, haven't released an album of original new material in nearly two decades, so it's difficult to test your theory. I'm not so sure a Mike-led album of new "BB" material would outsell something like Lucky Old Sun, actually...

[donald]

In reading this about attending awards ceremonies, I am recalling what George Harrison said to his wife toward the end of his life when she said he should go and accept a "very important" award;     "let them find another monkey"


maybe BW just wants everybody to find another monkey......

[Wirestone]

The Beach Boys name will sell more than anything put out solo by any of the individuals. BWPS may be the one exceptiion in a 50 year career. Too, Brian makes a lot of money off what Mike comfortably does. It is done that way by agreement of which Brian is also a part of.

I'm pretty sure POB outsold some late 70s BB releases of the time, at least by some measures. The "Beach Boys", BTW, haven't released an album of original new material in nearly two decades, so it's difficult to test your theory. I'm not so sure a Mike-led album of new "BB" material would outsell something like Lucky Old Sun, actually...

Exactly. Brian is higher profile to the record-buying public than the Beach Boys, at least right now.

[drbeachboy]

The Beach Boys name will sell more than anything put out solo by any of the individuals. BWPS may be the one exceptiion in a 50 year career. Too, Brian makes a lot of money off what Mike comfortably does. It is done that way by agreement of which Brian is also a part of.

I'm pretty sure POB outsold some late 70s BB releases of the time, at least by some measures. The "Beach Boys", BTW, haven't released an album of original new material in nearly two decades, so it's difficult to test your theory. I'm not so sure a Mike-led album of new "BB" material would outsell something like Lucky Old Sun, actually...

Exactly. Brian is higher profile to the record-buying public than the Beach Boys, at least right now.

I don't know Brian's numbers, but I doubt he sold all that much. At this point his music, except maybe BWPS,  is pretty much a niche market. To any single Brian solo album, I'll bet The Beach Boys TSS sold better. The point is, is that The Beach Boys name is a bigger market draw than Brian's name alone. Of course Brian will be a higher profile, as he is the only one releasing new material since 1998.

[Jon Stebbins]

The Beach Boys name will sell more than anything put out solo by any of the individuals. BWPS may be the one exceptiion in a 50 year career. Too, Brian makes a lot of money off what Mike comfortably does. It is done that way by agreement of which Brian is also a part of.

I'm pretty sure POB outsold some late 70s BB releases of the time, at least by some measures. The "Beach Boys", BTW, haven't released an album of original new material in nearly two decades, so it's difficult to test your theory. I'm not so sure a Mike-led album of new "BB" material would outsell something like Lucky Old Sun, actually...

No but Dennis' 2008 POB Legacy reissue did outsell TLOS that year...and charted higher in the UK than any Brian solo release other than BWPS. It also (again) outsold the only BB's release within a year of it...Summer Love Songs. So Dennis as a solo artist outsold the BB's in '77/78 and again  in 2008/2009.

[endofposts]

Let Brian try to play and sell out as many gigs as the Beach Boys do in a year. It won't happen.  Brian doesn't object to collecting the 20% of the tour royalties he gets while those guys go out there and work hard doing over 100 plus gigs a year that the public is happy to go see under the Beach Boys name.  While Brian once did a show a few years ago in a large theater where less than 20% of the house was filled.  I know, because I was there.

I say that knowing that the product that the touring Beach Boys puts out can vary widely in quality.  I saw them one time and the line up was not a good one, Mike had laryngitis, and they were pretty bad.  But the crowd loved them.  I've seen Brian shows that were really good and ones that were so-so, but they all were relatively small shows with Brian enthusiasts.  Neither the Beach Boys or Brian can sell based on material that's less than over 40 years old. 

I know some people think those of us who thought it would have been nice for Brian to show up to the California HOF are being ridiculous, but some of the people here are acting like those Beach Boys who did show up were somehow dishonoring Brian for doing so, or that they didn't deserve to be there.  It's good they were there even if Brian was not, for whatever his reasons were.  Maybe he's still thinking about the reunion and didn't want to let the cat out of the bag too soon or face press questions. 

[b00ts]

Let Brian try to play and sell out as many gigs as the Beach Boys do in a year. It won't happen.  Brian doesn't object to collecting the 20% of the tour royalties he gets while those guys go out there and work hard doing over 100 plus gigs a year that the public is happy to go see under the Beach Boys name.  While Brian once did a show a few years ago in a large theater where less than 20% of the house was filled.  I know, because I was there.

(SNIP SNIP SNIP)

I know some people think those of us who thought it would have been nice for Brian to show up to the California HOF are being ridiculous, but some of the people here are acting like those Beach Boys who did show up were somehow dishonoring Brian for doing so, or that they didn't deserve to be there.  It's good they were there even if Brian was not, for whatever his reasons were.  Maybe he's still thinking about the reunion and didn't want to let the cat out of the bag too soon or face press questions. 

A voice of sanity! One of precious few in this thread.

[Tristero]

I don't buy the "Brian's vision" line either. Not as the whole story. How many times on this board has someone written something along the lines of (myself included) "Yes, Brian needed the band to help realize his vision.  Those songs required the lovely, complex group harmonies to really flourish.  He needed a confident front man like Mike to go out there and sell it to the audience.  And of course, as Brian's personal problems caught up to him, the rest of the band had to pick up the slack--first in terms of their live performances and eventually in terms of the songwriting/arrangements too"? ..... Just isolate that sentence and think about it for a moment. That line represents a sizable chunk of what the Beach Boys are and I don't see the logic of stating such and then going, yeah, yeah, well, sure, but, but.... it's all about Brian's vision! Hell, we all have visions and grand schemes and plans and great novels we'd love to write, great movies we'd love to direct, classic albums we'd like to write and produce, but we can't do it all on our own. Brian had vision but he also had a lot of motivation fostered upon him by the other Beach Boys. He had these guys who's voices blended so wonderfully, he had a Chuck Berry obsessed, guitar playing little brother, he had a clocky/confident lead singer in Mike who had the nerve to put himself out in front, he had Dennis who somehow managed to learn to bash the drums very well seemingly overnight. he had Al, not even a relation, but who somehow sounded liked he belonged in harmony with the others, he had Mike (and others) providing lyrics and the narrative/emotional identity for a great number of the songs: in other words he had a band! Give these guys their due.

Sure.  Any of us could score dozens of top forty hits and come up with timeless, critically acclaimed works of art if we just had a talented band behind us to help make it happen.     If some give the rest of the Boys short shrift, it seems that others are intent on resentfully undercutting Brian's accomplishments.  As I stated, Brian got a lot of help over the years, not just from the band but also from his other songwriting collaborators and all of the talented session musicians involved--none of this should be lightly dismissed.  Obviously, he wasn't magically making it all happen by himself, but in my view, Brian's writing/arranging/producing talents were the one truly indispensable component in this equation and the notion that they could have even gotten off the ground, much less have thrived without him is ludicrous.  (And before you say "Kokomo", that hit never would have happened if they weren't already major stars selling the sound that Brian played such a large role in developing.)

[SMiLE Brian]

The genius of Brian is that he combined the music he liked with the different styles of music his peers, and created a totally new sub-genre of rock/pop.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I'm not (nor does anyone else seem to be) trying to undercut Brian's accomplishments. Brian has been praised, honored, awarded to high heaven. His legacy is secure for all-time. However this legacy should NOT come at the expense and dismissal of the other Beach Boys. Record making is a collaboration whether Brianistas like it or not. And the Beach Boys certainly were a collaborative entity. YES, Brian was the main guy, but he was not the only guy.

Also, it's not necessary to point to the Beach Boys chart success (while shrugging off Kokomo) as the only point that matters. The Velvet Underground are in the R&R hall or fame and they had no chart success whatsoever in their existence. Lou Reed wrote all songs but no one insults Moe, John, Sterling, Doug and claims they don't deserve a shred of the band's legacy. Why the Beach Boys get this merda tossed at them truly boggles my mind.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Let Brian try to play and sell out as many gigs as the Beach Boys do in a year. It won't happen.  Brian doesn't object to collecting the 20% of the tour royalties he gets while those guys go out there and work hard doing over 100 plus gigs a year that the public is happy to go see under the Beach Boys name. 

25%. BRI is a 4-way split: Brian, Mike, Alan & Carl's estate.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

What about Dennis' estate?

[joshferrell]

In reading this about attending awards ceremonies, I am recalling what George Harrison said to his wife toward the end of his life when she said he should go and accept a "very important" award;     "let them find another monkey"


maybe BW just wants everybody to find another monkey......

or maybe he mistankingly thought he was in the Monkees instead of the Beatles..I would get the two confused as well,especially if I was in one of them...

[18thofMay]

What about Dennis' estate?

I am sure this has been explained 100 times

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

Yeah, it's coming back to me slowly

[18thofMay]

Yeah, it's coming back to me slowly

Ha!!
It is Christmas!!

[Ron]

Lets roll it back a little bit so we can fight some more.

This isn't about the reunion... this is about the Beach Boys being honored at a pretty important event and us wondering why Brian couldn't be bothered to show up. 

[18thofMay]

Lets roll it back a little bit so we can fight some more.

This isn't about the reunion... this is about the Beach Boys being honored at a pretty important event and us wondering why Brian couldn't be bothered to show up. 

Who said he could not be bothered?

[drbeachboy]

He did not show up, so if that is bothered, what is not bothered? If he was supposed to show and something happened, they would have put out a release and said so.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

No big deal Brian didn't show up. He's been under no obligation to show up at anything Beach Boys related since, what, 1965?

[The Shift]

Maybe he's aware that he's the icing on this reunion cake. Al, Mike, Dave & Bruce can glam up for all the parties they care to attend but what'll really turn heads is when BW walls in the room and brings the whole thing together. So he's just biding his time - the reunion don't start until Brian says it's started.