Beach Boys vs Beatles in the same years

[RangeRoverA1]

As I said before in another thread, if it is between Beach Boys and Beatles, it'll always be Beach Boys no matter what year. The Beatles are essential listening however.

You said the same in this thread as well. And yes, I agree that the Beatles are essential listen, I'll even go further saying they're the kings of the 60s music & decade overall. That's my objective idea, agree or not agree. On the other hand, The Beach Boys to me, with all their drawbacks & flaws, are 10.000 times better than Fab Four. There is magic in their music, even the worst. Which I can't say about the great, the legendary, their Highness The Beatles. In other words, The Beach Boys rule!

Btw, I read somewhere that there are only 3 great BB figures: B.B. King, The Beach Boys & Brigitte Bardot. Don't know about the latter, since I didn't watch a single movie with her, but with others I agree. The rest BB were trainwrecks, as I got from that article. So, seems like The BBs are in a good company.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I'm no hip hop fan, but the Beastie Boys can't really be describes as a train wreck. They did some highly influential albums, including one which is often referred to as the "Pet Sounds of Hip Hop"

[RangeRoverA1]

I'm no hip hop fan, but the Beastie Boys can't really be described as a train wreck. They did some highly influential albums, including one which is often referred to as the "Pet Sounds of Hip Hop"

Wow, really? I must check it then. Anyway, I think the author of the said article was a bit too rough when he used this "trainwreck" term. Every artist, be it JJ or KK etc., has sth. to offer, their moments of greatness, so to speak.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Yes, Berthold Brecht and Billy Bragg as well spring to mind also 

Bobby Brown though........ stick him in the train wreck pile

[Theydon Bois]

Bix Beiderbecke, man.

[Mike's Beard]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

Absolutely agreed. I don't imagine that on Beatles message boards people are starting endless threads about "who was better, the Beatles or the Beach Boys?"

Well because its part of our culture to accept that the Beatles were the best band ever. Even on this board to question this marks you out as some sort of pariah. We can talk about the Beach Boys greatness as much as we want, but the Beatles must be in there as a measuring stick.

As soon as the last of the baby boomers have gone, we may be able to start piecing together a real unbiased history.

Any history that begins with "There was all the boring music our parent listened to, and then there was rock n'roll, which had absolutely no relation to swing or big band" is bullshit. And yet that's the bullshit we're fed.

Nearly as good as "Rock n roll died in 1959, and all American and British pop was sh*t and sterile and manufactured till the Beatles came along" Another of my favourites.

I've also had someone tell me that The Beatles made the first ever psychedelic record. Members of the Hoffman board will tell you they invented Heavy Metal with Helter Skelter. I'm sure we can trace the origin of Hip Hop to one of their songs if we look hard enough....  

[AndrewHickey]

Bix Beiderbecke, man.

Indeed. And Bobby Bland, Big Bill Broonzy, Blind Blake...
And in non-musical fields (since Brigitte Bardot counts) there's Brian Blessed...

[Jukka]

I've also had someone tell me that The Beatles made the first ever psychedelic record. Members of the Hoffman board will tell you they invented Heavy Metal with Helther Skelter. I'm sure we can trace the origin of Hip Hop to one of their songs if we look hard enough.... 

Easily. Baby, You're a Rich Man has a kind of hip hop beat. And that fast gibberish in Everybody's got something to hide... That's Lennon inventing rapping right there. Oh, and Come Together!

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Surely The Surfaris did one of the first raps, Surfer Joe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD6LKzhQcDc

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Bix Beiderbecke, man.

Smacks head. I've just bought a double CD, how could I have forgotten Bix!

[Jeff]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

Absolutely agreed. I don't imagine that on Beatles message boards people are starting endless threads about "who was better, the Beatles or the Beach Boys?"

Well because its part of our culture to accept that the Beatles were the best band ever. Even on this board to question this marks you out as some sort of pariah. We can talk about the Beach Boys greatness as much as we want, but the Beatles must be in there as a measuring stick.

As soon as the last of the baby boomers have gone, we may be able to start piecing together a real unbiased history.

Any history that begins with "There was all the boring music our parent listened to, and then there was rock n'roll, which had absolutely no relation to swing or big band" is bullshit. And yet that's the bullshit we're fed.

Nearly as good as "Rock n roll died in 1959, and all American and British pop was sh*t and sterile and manufactured till the Beatles came along" Another of my favourites.

I've also had someone tell me that The Beatles made the first ever psychedelic record. Members of the Hoffman board will tell you they invented Heavy Metal with Helter Skelter. I'm sure we can trace the origin of Hip Hop to one of their songs if we look hard enough....  

Ummm.  I've seen people on this board claim that the Beach Boys invented everything from rap (Games People Play) to the concept album (Little Deuce Coupe).  More recently, I've seen people claim that the Stones are to old to be on the cover of Rolling Stone, but at the same time complain that the Beach Boys should have been on the cover.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

Absolutely agreed. I don't imagine that on Beatles message boards people are starting endless threads about "who was better, the Beatles or the Beach Boys?"

Well because its part of our culture to accept that the Beatles were the best band ever. Even on this board to question this marks you out as some sort of pariah. We can talk about the Beach Boys greatness as much as we want, but the Beatles must be in there as a measuring stick.

As soon as the last of the baby boomers have gone, we may be able to start piecing together a real unbiased history.

Any history that begins with "There was all the boring music our parent listened to, and then there was rock n'roll, which had absolutely no relation to swing or big band" is bullshit. And yet that's the bullshit we're fed.

Nearly as good as "Rock n roll died in 1959, and all American and British pop was sh*t and sterile and manufactured till the Beatles came along" Another of my favourites.

I've also had someone tell me that The Beatles made the first ever psychedelic record. Members of the Hoffman board will tell you they invented Heavy Metal with Helter Skelter. I'm sure we can trace the origin of Hip Hop to one of their songs if we look hard enough....  

Ummm.  I've seen people on this board claim that the Beach Boys invented everything from rap (Games People Play) to the concept album (Little Deuce Coupe).  More recently, I've seen people claim that the Stones are to old to be on the cover of Rolling Stone, but at the same time complain that the Beach Boys should have been on the cover.

Exactly. It seems as if it's only acceptable to do that if you are talking about any group BUT The Beatles since The Beatles are attributed with so much already.

[Mike's Beard]

This seemingly endless contrast with The Beatles as well as Brian's "genius" label are the biggest albatrosses The Beach Boys have had to continually deal with throughout their career.

Absolutely agreed. I don't imagine that on Beatles message boards people are starting endless threads about "who was better, the Beatles or the Beach Boys?"

Well because its part of our culture to accept that the Beatles were the best band ever. Even on this board to question this marks you out as some sort of pariah. We can talk about the Beach Boys greatness as much as we want, but the Beatles must be in there as a measuring stick.

As soon as the last of the baby boomers have gone, we may be able to start piecing together a real unbiased history.

Any history that begins with "There was all the boring music our parent listened to, and then there was rock n'roll, which had absolutely no relation to swing or big band" is bullshit. And yet that's the bullshit we're fed.

Nearly as good as "Rock n roll died in 1959, and all American and British pop was sh*t and sterile and manufactured till the Beatles came along" Another of my favourites.

I've also had someone tell me that The Beatles made the first ever psychedelic record. Members of the Hoffman board will tell you they invented Heavy Metal with Helter Skelter. I'm sure we can trace the origin of Hip Hop to one of their songs if we look hard enough....  

Ummm.  I've seen people on this board claim that the Beach Boys invented everything from rap (Games People Play) to the concept album (Little Deuce Coupe).  More recently, I've seen people claim that the Stones are to old to be on the cover of Rolling Stone, but at the same time complain that the Beach Boys should have been on the cover.

Well I agree they are talking out of their backside but it doesn't make my Beatle fan examples any less stupid.

[Jeff]

Every fan base has its share of people who exaggerate a group's importance and accomplishments.  Visit a board devoted to any well-known group, and you'll find some of them there.  Certainly we have plenty of them on this site.

But that doesn't justify dismissing a group's legitimately good or great work.  I just don't get the compulsion some have to drag down other bands just because some of their fans are silly.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I don't have a problem with the Rolling Stones being on the magazine cover. But I do think that the Beach Boys should have been on there for their 50th tour.

[RangeRoverA1]

I've seen people on this board claim that the Beach Boys invented rap (Games People Play). 

Really? I heard something different, i.e. it were The Beatles who first invented rap with Rocky Raccoon (imo one of the best songs by the group). To me, that sounds more credible, because Games 2 Can Play has very tiny amount of rap talk & obviously it isn't the most memorable bit of the song.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I think in Rocky Racoon, Paul is just emulating that sort of spoken introduction which was common in many US folk songs. It's that whole Woodie Guthrie sort of thing.                

It seems to me these people claiming "firsts", on behalf of any group, often have a very limited knowledge of musical history.

The earliest examples that I can think of of someone speaking in rhythm over music in what we'd call pop, are Monster Mash, and Surfer Joe. There are probably older examples. I'm sure I've  heard this sort of thing in jazz, and swing, and, as noted, american folk music. It probably predates all of this. Suffice to say, neither the Beach Boys or The Beatles invented rap.

[RangeRoverA1]

The earliest examples that I can think of of someone speaking in rhythm over music in what we'd call pop, are Monster Mash and Surfer Joe.

Yep, forgot about Monster Mash. Very nifty & cool song, I would say. No wonder it got to #1 in Billboard Hot-100.

[bluesno1fann]

Early 63: Please, Please Me
Late 63: With The Beatles
Early 64: Shut Down Volume II
Mid 64: A Hard Day's Night
Late 64: The Beach Boys' Christmas Album
Mid 65: The Beach Boys Today and Summer Days (And Summer Nights!)
Late 64: Rubber Soul
Mid 66: Pet Sounds
Mid 67: The Smile Sessions
Late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey
68: Friends
69: 20/20
70: Sunflower

I would have dropped the Christmas album and put the Party album in it's place, and moved Summer Days against Rubber Soul.
Also, I would have put Smiley Smile up against Yellow Submarine.

Problem is, this thread is about putting BB's and Beatles albums up from their same year, so...

[Gabo]

I don't really listen to the albums before 65.

Mid 65: The Beach Boys Today and Summer Days (And Summer Nights!)
Late 65: Rubber Soul
Mid 66: Pet Sounds
Mid 67: Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
Late 67: Smiley Smile and Wild Honey
68: The Beatles
69: Abbey Road
70: Sunflower

I overall think The Beatles made more consistently brilliantly music than The Beach Boys. I just love The Boys' aesthetic so much that it doesn't matter.

That's the way it goes with every band that isn't The Beatles, I guess.

[TMinthePM]

A thought provoking thread here, to be sure. But I think one very important element is missing in the discussion, and that is the Rolling Stones, who, along with the Beach Boys and Beatles dominated the 60's. All three bands deeply indebted to Chuck Berry, with the Beach Boys on one side drawing heavily from jazz, the Beatles in the middle drawing heavily from popular song, and the Stones, obviously, remaking the blues. Although the three bands emerged virtually simultaneously, the Beach Boys seem to have peaked first and have never been able to shake that fun-in-the-sun legacy, the Beatles absolutely owning the mid-60's, and the Stones justifiably billing themselves "the world's greatest rock n roll band," at the end.

Smiley Smile - The Magical Mystery Tour - Their Satanic Majesties Request - three very odd dogs, and all outclassed by any number of bands that year.

[Blue2013]

Early 63: Please Please Me

late 63: With the Beatles

Early 64:Meet the Beatles

mid 64: All Summer Long

late 64: Beatles for Sale

mid 65: Today

late 65: Rubber Soul

mid 66: Pet Sounds

mid 67:  Sgt Pepper

late 67: Magical Mystery Tour

68:  White Album

69:  Abbey Road

70: Sunflower

[kookadams]

Id say itd be: shut down vol 2 and meet the beatles, all summer long and hard days night, today and help, summer days and rubber soul, pet sounds and revolver, smiley smile and sgt pepper, wild honey and magical mystery, friends and white and 20/20 and abbey rd.....maybe sunflower and let it be but let it be was posthumous....