"I Was Made to Love Her" on Wild Honey and Carol Kaye's claims

[endofposts]

I just re-read the Jamerson part of the Bassland site.  Anyone who defends Carol should think again.   What a bald-faced liar she is.  She must be some kind of psychopath to lie in the face of people refuting every one of her claims, including all the Motown people who were producing the sessions and her Wrecking Crew compatriots as well.  She says there was an agenda against her by "black males" because she was a white, female musician.  Racist much?  She's such a con artist she even goes into fantasies about how you can hear she was "scuffling" with the bass strings while she, Carol, was banging out that bass part on Stevie Wonder's "I Was Make to Love Her."  Yeah, right.  What a horrid woman.  I wonder if those people popped up on the Blueboard recently to defend her because she asked them to, in order to counteract the thread over here?  It wouldn't surprise me, since she does send confederates out to defend her.  What a piece of work. 

[adamghost]

What about The Standells story..??Like to read it..Had most of their LP'S + played their songs in my band in High School..Also The Raiders were faves back then..Both kinda punk for their day..!!

My part of it wouldn't be particularly edifying.  But there's a book out there I believe that tells their overall history.

[c-man]

There's a fresh Carol Kaye thread on Brian's board where they are calling out us "historian types" for doubting poor Carol. Facts are such a problem for sheep when they don't fit the established myth.

Really ? I finally bailed there recently because I couldn't stand the luminous stupidity of certain posters any more. Guess they'll be burning our books soon, Jon... 

Last people to burn books like that were those pesky nazi germans.

Well, actually, no. The last people to burn books are generally christian folks who can't stand anything they don't like being printed in books; it happens every few years...

Also Beatles LPs over one sarcastic comment from John Lennon about being bigger than Jesus.

Actually, I think it's most recently been done by extremist radical Muslim people...along with blowing up statues of certain spiritual leaders held in esteem by people of other faiths.

[OneEar/OneEye]

It's very sad.  She has plenty of legitimate credits on major league hits, so why she should continue on with trying to take credit away from someone else is just mind boggling.  Is she that in need of love?  Sad.  Very very sad.

[shelter]

Coincidentally, a DVD with highlights from a Dutch music TV show called 'Top 2000 A Gogo' came out yesterday, which includes a short item about Carol Kaye. In the introduction, they play two of the many examples of her excellent bass playing: 'Good Vibrations' and 'I Was Made to Love Her'.  The item includes a rather painful scene where Kaye takes the camera crew to the Ocean Way studios. She walks in unannounced, mumbles something to a receptionist about having played on thousands of sessions there and having made a whole lot of money for the studio, and tries to just walk into one of the recording rooms. When someone tells her she can't go in because all the studios are booked, she storms out and walks away from the studio and the camera crew. End of item.

[Mr. Wilson]

OOH..!!..That is painful..Kinda like Dont you know who i am..?..OOH..EGO..!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SMiLE Brian]

There's a fresh Carol Kaye thread on Brian's board where they are calling out us "historian types" for doubting poor Carol. Facts are such a problem for sheep when they don't fit the established myth.

Really ? I finally bailed there recently because I couldn't stand the luminous stupidity of certain posters any more. Guess they'll be burning our books soon, Jon... 

Last people to burn books like that were those pesky nazi germans.

Well, actually, no. The last people to burn books are generally christian folks who can't stand anything they don't like being printed in books; it happens every few years...

Also Beatles LPs over one sarcastic comment from John Lennon about being bigger than Jesus.

Actually, I think it's most recently been done by extremist radical Muslim people...along with blowing up statues of certain spiritual leaders held in esteem by people of other faiths.

Forgot about that, that whole statue distruction was nuts.

[c-man]

OOH..!!..That is painful..Kinda like Dont you know who i am..?..OOH..EGO..!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe a little of Spector rubbed off on her...

[DonnyL]

I'm not really into defending false claims. 

For every Brian Wilson or Paul McCartney, there's a Carol Kaye, a Sky Saxon, a James Jamerson, or Arthur Lee ... people who were there, made great contributions to some of the greatest art of all time but who maybe have had to struggle to pay the bills later on.  Some of them have skewed views of their history.  I just feel there are respectful and disrespectful ways to interact with them.

Carol Kaye was there and we weren't.  I have nothing but respect for her; end of story.

[Awesoman]

It's very sad.  She has plenty of legitimate credits on major league hits, so why she should continue on with trying to take credit away from someone else is just mind boggling.  Is she that in need of love?  Sad.  Very very sad.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm not really into defending false claims.  

For every Brian Wilson or Paul McCartney, there's a Carol Kaye, a Sky Saxon, a James Jamerson, or Arthur Lee ... people who were there, made great contributions to some of the greatest art of all time but who maybe have had to struggle to pay the bills later on.  Some of them have skewed views of their history.  I just feel there are respectful and disrespectful ways to interact with them.

Carol Kaye was there and we weren't.  I have nothing but respect for her; end of story.

So you have respect for someone who has consistently claimed credit for something she's not done at the expense of the true contributor, who is no longer here to defend himself ? You say she was there ? Not in Detroit, she wasn't: she admits that herself. I don't dispute she was an iconic bass player in the LA studio scene and her contribution to to literally hundreds, thousands of classic songs is rightly lauded. She is unquestionably a legend. Equally, given the evidence presented here and elsewhere over the past few decades, neither you nor any other CK 'defenders' can dispute that she's been thoroughly unpleasant and vindictive to anyone who disputes her recollections and has demonstrably lied about playing on some iconic rock sessions.

Sir, if that is your idea of respect, I don't wish to know you.

[DonnyL]

I'm not really into defending false claims.  

For every Brian Wilson or Paul McCartney, there's a Carol Kaye, a Sky Saxon, a James Jamerson, or Arthur Lee ... people who were there, made great contributions to some of the greatest art of all time but who maybe have had to struggle to pay the bills later on.  Some of them have skewed views of their history.  I just feel there are respectful and disrespectful ways to interact with them.

Carol Kaye was there and we weren't.  I have nothing but respect for her; end of story.

So you have respect for someone who has consistently claimed credit for something she's not done at the expense of the true contributor, who is no longer here to defend himself ? You say she was there ? Not in Detroit, she wasn't: she admits that herself. I don't dispute she was an iconic bass player in the LA studio scene and her contribution to to literally hundreds, thousands of classic songs is rightly lauded. She is unquestionably a legend. Equally, given the evidence presented here and elsewhere over the past few decades, neither you nor any other CK 'defenders' can dispute that she's been thoroughly unpleasant and vindictive to anyone who disputes her recollections and has demonstrably lied about playing on some iconic rock sessions.

Sir, if that is your idea of respect, I don't wish to know you.

i get it bro.  but with the tone around here, you'd think we were talking about someone who did not play on 'pet sounds' and 'smile'.

you can be a little hot-headed yourself at times.  but don't take offense -- i still respect you as a historian.  but i can see why the history makers and those who chronicle them could perhaps be at odds at times.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Did you actually read this part of my post - "I don't dispute she was an iconic bass player in the LA studio scene and her contribution to to literally hundreds, thousands of classic songs is rightly lauded. She is unquestionably a legend." - ?

Actually, we're talking about someone who says she played on a mess of Motown hits, The Doors "Light My Fire" and "Surfin' USA" and "Surf City" when the AFM contracts say she didn't (e.g Surf City AFM).

[Jay]

I'm not really into defending false claims.  

For every Brian Wilson or Paul McCartney, there's a Carol Kaye, a Sky Saxon, a James Jamerson, or Arthur Lee ... people who were there, made great contributions to some of the greatest art of all time but who maybe have had to struggle to pay the bills later on.  Some of them have skewed views of their history.  I just feel there are respectful and disrespectful ways to interact with them.

Carol Kaye was there and we weren't.  I have nothing but respect for her; end of story.

So you have respect for someone who has consistently claimed credit for something she's not done at the expense of the true contributor, who is no longer here to defend himself ? You say she was there ? Not in Detroit, she wasn't: she admits that herself. I don't dispute she was an iconic bass player in the LA studio scene and her contribution to to literally hundreds, thousands of classic songs is rightly lauded. She is unquestionably a legend. Equally, given the evidence presented here and elsewhere over the past few decades, neither you nor any other CK 'defenders' can dispute that she's been thoroughly unpleasant and vindictive to anyone who disputes her recollections and has demonstrably lied about playing on some iconic rock sessions.

Sir, if that is your idea of respect, I don't wish to know you.

i get it bro.  but with the tone around here, you'd think we were talking about someone who did not play on 'pet sounds' and 'smile'.

you can be a little hot-headed yourself at times.  but don't take offense -- i still respect you as a historian.  but i can see why the history makers and those who chronicle them could perhaps be at odds at times.

With all due respect, I don't care if she did or didn't play on Smile. This is a question about proper behaviour of a human being. I don't care if you are the President of the United States Of America. If you don't show respect and proper conduct, then you aren't worthy of being shown the same respect. The part about AGD's mother was particularly vicious, inexcusable and, IMO, unforgivable.

[DonnyL]

Well, I don't think it's a good idea to fight fire with fire.  This is a public forum and many here are making disrespectful & offensive statements quite casually.  It just reeks, that's all.

[DonnyL]

Did you actually read this part of my post - "I don't dispute she was an iconic bass player in the LA studio scene and her contribution to to literally hundreds, thousands of classic songs is rightly lauded. She is unquestionably a legend." - ?

Actually, we're talking about someone who says she played on a mess of Motown hits, The Doors "Light My Fire" and "Surfin' USA" and "Surf City" when the AFM contracts say she didn't (e.g Surf City AFM).

sometimes people believe things that are not true.  and i don't think the 'facts' of the '60s are black & white.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, I don't think it's a good idea to fight fire with fire.  This is a public forum and many here are making disrespectful & offensive statements quite casually.  It just reeks, that's all.

Ah... so CK can call me a liar, a thief and a phony on her website forum, and drag my mother into the nonsense purely to try and make me look small, and that's OK, but when I reply in kind by calling her a proven liar according to the very AFM contracts she holds as near-gospel, that's disrespectful and offensive ?

You're related to her, aren't you ? I'll bet she could come over to your place, break the windows, steal your car and set fire to the house and that'd be OK with you because hey, it's Carol Kaye, and you have the utmost respect for her. I may be a picky historian, but I'm not blinkered that badly.

Carol Kaye says she has never visited Detroit. All the Motown hits she claims to have played on were recorded in Detroit. End of argument.

[Awesoman]

Well, I don't think it's a good idea to fight fire with fire.  This is a public forum and many here are making disrespectful & offensive statements quite casually.  It just reeks, that's all.

Hear, hear.  I always get amused at how my fellow Beach Boys fans like to take things so personally.  Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.  Sure, she said some nasty things directed at AGD.  But there is a simple reason for that: she's crazy.  And you can't fix crazy.    

[DonnyL]

Well, I don't think it's a good idea to fight fire with fire.  This is a public forum and many here are making disrespectful & offensive statements quite casually.  It just reeks, that's all.

Ah... so CK can call me a liar, a thief and a phony on her website forum, and drag my mother into the nonsense purely to try and make me look small, and that's OK, but when I reply in kind by calling her a proven liar according to the very AFM contracts she holds as near-gospel, that's disrespectful and offensive ?

You're related to her, aren't you ? I'll bet she could come over to your place, break the windows, steal your car and set fire to the house and that'd be OK with you because hey, it's Carol Kaye, and you have the utmost respect for her. I may be a picky historian, but I'm not blinkered that badly.

Carol Kaye says she has never visited Detroit. All the Motown hits she claims to have played on were recorded in Detroit. End of argument.

nah, i wasn't really talking about you, but some of the others.  but you are a little hot-headed, as least on the internet.  i'm sure you're a nice guy in real life.  i am too.

no relation to Carol; the only person in the Beach Boys world I know if real life and would consider a personal friend is Durrie Parks, who is a very sweet lady incidentally.

[The Heartical Don]

Did you actually read this part of my post - "I don't dispute she was an iconic bass player in the LA studio scene and her contribution to to literally hundreds, thousands of classic songs is rightly lauded. She is unquestionably a legend." - ?

Actually, we're talking about someone who says she played on a mess of Motown hits, The Doors "Light My Fire" and "Surfin' USA" and "Surf City" when the AFM contracts say she didn't (e.g Surf City AFM).

Good points, well made. Perhaps the upshot of it all must be: she's a great artist, and also a pathological liar. The latter means: for the last decade or so, she can't act otherwise, kind of a compulsion. Which does not diminish the gravity of the insults she spreads around.

[shelter]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.

What's also too bad is, if you read that link AGD posted a few pages back, there are people out there who have tried to be helpful to Ms. Kaye, and then she's banned them, or whatever, and then they end up specifically trying to avoid listening to music she's recorded.  Nobody should feel compelled to voluntarily exclude themselves from some of the greatest music ever recorded.

[The Heartical Don]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.

What's also too bad is, if you read that link AGD posted a few pages back, there are people out there who have tried to be helpful to Ms. Kaye, and then she's banned them, or whatever, and then they end up specifically trying to avoid listening to music she's recorded.  Nobody should feel compelled to voluntarily exclude themselves from some of the greatest music ever recorded.

...but can't one, with all the modern tech gizmos, just excise ms Kaye's contributions? With an antikayolizer?

[runnersdialzero]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It's not my issue, obviously, but it's always upsetting to see this sort of thing being a part of something I love. Either way, I don't like seeing people try their damnedest to discredit others, especially others who are not around to defend themselves. Nothing personal at all, obviously, but yeah.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

Carol Kaye wants to believe she played bass on everyone's tracks?  Fine.  Her living in her fantasy land don't bother me none.

It wouldn't be a problem if everyone would know that Kaye is living in a fantasy world and shouldn't always be taken too seriously. But unfortionately there are writers and journalists who don't do their homework and write her claims down as if they are the facts, so that history gets distorted and some people don't get the credit they deserve.

What's also too bad is, if you read that link AGD posted a few pages back, there are people out there who have tried to be helpful to Ms. Kaye, and then she's banned them, or whatever, and then they end up specifically trying to avoid listening to music she's recorded.  Nobody should feel compelled to voluntarily exclude themselves from some of the greatest music ever recorded.

...but can't one, with all the modern tech gizmos, just excise ms Kaye's contributions? With an antikayolizer?

Well, you could certainly cut off all frequencies in the bass range.  I feel like the result would be rather tinny, though.