gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680597 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 11:06:19 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: What Would Brian have Done After SMiLE?  (Read 8920 times)
Freddie French-Pounce
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1571


A.K.A. mrmoustachioto


View Profile
« on: November 26, 2011, 10:30:32 AM »

Imagine SMiLE had been released. What would Brian have done next to follow it up? I personally think that a better produced version of an album like Wild Honey would hve been released, but still as a 'cool down' album.
Logged

Check out the Mono/Stereo Mix Breakdown podcast Mixology here: https://mixology.podbean.com/
Peter Reum
Honored Guest
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 704

Serving fine tortillas since 1965


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 10:38:05 AM »

I could have seen Brian scoring films...that's  what Run James Run was all about.
Logged

If it runs amuck, call the duck
WaxOn
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 155


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 10:45:16 AM »

I think every single person on this board has run this scenario through their minds a zillion times.

For me, I think there's basically 2 routes

1) Brian finishes SMiLE, it's a failure in the US and big in GB (like PS). The band/label are upset and "x" and "y" happens. The toll it takes to complete is overwhelming, and in light of its perceived failure he continues copious drug intake/mental decline and dies from one of many possible causes. WH never happens as the band is devastated and disintegrates for a period.

2) Brian finishes SMiLE, and it's a smash hit and/or at the very least a moderate success in US, and huge in GB. The band/label say, hey! that wasn't so bad - let's have more please! Brian (having learned from his mistakes) goes on to work with the BB's streamlining his production for perhaps the true prog/psychedelic movement beating Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Hendrix et al to the punch, do the Monterey festival and BB's retain their street cred. Eventually the BB's grow up and move off into the same WH direction, Brian taking a backseat role in the band if at all, instead moving on to produce the greatest acts of the 70's. He never really gets involved in drugs, and the huge boost to his ego keeps his mental state in balance for decades to come. And of course, Dennis is still with us. Sometime in the latter part of the first decade of the 21st century after producing dozens of hit bands and scoring a hundred films he creates his first album in years "Gershwin Re imagined".
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 10:52:04 AM by WaxOn » Logged
OneEar/OneEye
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 321


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2011, 11:10:43 AM »

One thing I feel strongly about, though I have no proof obviously, is that had Smile been released in Dec'66/Jan'67, there's no way it would have been an out and out "flop".  I cannot accept that at that time, with the attention it would have recieved, songs like Cabin Essence and Surf's Up would have been ignored or been recieved with a "so what?", "big deal", "that sucks", "it's too weird".  attitude.  No way.   Maybe some of their audience would have departed, but I think it might have brought in a whole new audience to replace them.

But (my apologies) this is a thread about afterwards....perhaps he and Van would have continued working together, be it Beach Boys related or outside projects?   Who knows, the possibilities are endless.
Logged
GeorgeFellInHisHorn
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 133



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2011, 01:21:06 PM »

I could have seen Brian scoring films...that's  what Run James Run was all about.

What exactly is "Run James Run"? Never heard of it before.
Logged

joshferrell
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1634



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2011, 01:29:29 PM »

maybe he would have ended up doing "wild Honey" and "friends" but the songs would have been produced way differently..maybe some different songs...
Logged
TheManchesterMan
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 34


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2011, 01:38:48 PM »

I could have seen Brian scoring films...that's  what Run James Run was all about.

What exactly is "Run James Run"? Never heard of it before.

Working title for the track Pet Sounds.
Logged
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 02:58:43 PM »

1) Brian finishes SMiLE, it's a failure in the US and big in GB (like PS). The band/label are upset and "x" and "y" happens. The toll it takes to complete is overwhelming, and in light of its perceived failure he continues copious drug intake/mental decline and dies from one of many possible causes. WH never happens as the band is devastated and disintegrates for a period.

He wasn't THAT bad or out of control at that point.
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
willy
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 312

Hooga hagga hooga!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2011, 03:10:53 PM »

Longer, more ambitious tracks.
There would have been a 10 minute 'Can't Wait Too Long' and
a 10 minute 'Cool Cool Water/Little Pad' on one side,
and a 15-20 minute 'Diamond Head'-like audio collage with massed Church-of-Hawaii harmonies on the other.

Then to stripped-down RnB for the album after.
Logged

I bumped my head, the sky turned red, the aardvark said "Banana!"
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6043



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2011, 03:52:54 PM »

This is an interesting topic, because anytime I read what people suggest, it just sounds terrible.

If Smile succeeds --

1.) Brian becomes Randy Newman! That is, he somehow learns to write film scores, because everyone knows how artistic that is. Actually, its a musical dead end and virtually no one does anything worthwhile in it these days. The real issue: Where did Brian ever acquire the musical knowledge to actually score a movie? And why would he have sought it out after a successful album?

2.) Brian becomes a producer/writer for other acts. That is, he becomes David Foster or Phil Ramone or Burt Bacharach. Does anyone actually think this would have been artistically freeing for him? Wouldn't it just have ended up being as stifling as the group ever was? And why did none of his outside productions ever become hits, anyway? He certainly tried.

3.) Brian founds prog rock! Now, I enjoy me some prog, but to envision BW as part of a proto-Pink Floyd avant garde is kind of terrible, really. This is a pop genius. Even Smile's most complex tunes are generally single-length.

All of these sound awful!

Now, I do like the idea that he would create a somewhat slicker version of Wild Honey. I can go for that. And he might well have found the courage to step out as a solo artist in the early 70s, rather than the mid-80s.

But in some ways I think this question really overstates the importance of Smile. I don't know if it really would have changed everything the way we think. Brian led the group before and after Smile failed. He had mild mental issues before and after. The only thing that changed was a frittering away of public goodwill, but it's hard to say for sure how that would have played out. Things were changing fast in the late 60s, and would the group have navigated it any better with Smile out? Maybe. Maybe not.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 03:54:14 PM by Wirestone » Logged
anazgnos
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 384



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2011, 04:01:39 PM »

I would be perfectly happy with a reality in which Smile was released and he moved right on to Wild Honey and Friends, as they basically exist.  From there the big question becomes what would have happened if he'd been able to stay in a leadership/producer role after Friends.

The first time I heard Todd Rundgren's A Wizard, a True Star, I thought that this in my wildest dreams is what a fully-functional Brian Wilson would have been doing in 1973.
Logged
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6043



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2011, 04:06:06 PM »

Quote
From there the big question becomes what would have happened if he'd been able to stay in a leadership/producer role after Friends.

I think that's ultimately the question. Smile is a red herring in this story, I think. The real issue is what would the group, what would Brian have done if he hadn't given up his leadership role / gotten seriously ill.

We've conflated the abandonment of Smile and Brian's abandonment of his post. But they are actually a year or two apart, and not necessarily directly related.
Logged
anazgnos
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 384



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 04:11:41 PM »

Quote
From there the big question becomes what would have happened if he'd been able to stay in a leadership/producer role after Friends.

I think that's ultimately the question. Smile is a red herring in this story, I think. The real issue is what would the group, what would Brian have done if he hadn't given up his leadership role / gotten seriously ill.

We've conflated the abandonment of Smile and Brian's abandonment of his post. But they are actually a year or two apart, and not necessarily directly related.


You're right - the only x-factor that Smile presents is, would the "confidence boost" alone have been enough to somehow buoy Brian through the rough patch of '69?  It does seem to be putting too much weight on it. 
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 04:21:35 PM »

My donut is on they still would have been in the home studio because of the Brothers/Capitol situation and Brian would have gone with a Smiley mood and approach and on to WH etc, just as did happen when he released what he wanted to of SMiLE.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6043



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 04:51:33 PM »

Quote
You're right - the only x-factor that Smile presents is, would the "confidence boost" alone have been enough to somehow buoy Brian through the rough patch of '69?

Yeah, and that's just impossible to know, unfortunately. But given the most optimistic scenario, how long-lasting or profound would the commercial success of Smile be? He still grappled with questions about the musical direction of Smile after releasing Good Vibes, which was an immense hit! Maybe the BBs have a year or two more of cutting-edge popularity, but every band has to face some wilderness years eventually.

Quote
My donut is on they still would have been in the home studio because of the Brothers/Capitol situation and Brian would have gone with a Smiley mood and approach and on to WH etc, just as did happen when he released what he wanted to of SMiLE.

But if Smile were released, as the thread suggests, I don't know if he would have felt it necessary to release Smiley.
Logged
Cam Mott
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4171


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 05:07:40 PM »

It wouldn't have been the Smiley we know in my version, it would have been something like the non-SMiLE bits plus something else that would have been created. It probably isn't a given that SMiLE would have been any more of a band success than Smiley. It very well could have bombed.
Logged

"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6043



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2011, 05:46:18 PM »

Quote
It probably isn't a given that SMiLE would have been any more of a band success than Smiley.

Another central question. And again, one that we can't know the answer to. Depends on when it came out, probably, and what form the songs would have taken. I see arguments for its success -- a full record of "that Good Vibrations sound" -- but the music scene was moving at light speed then.

Quote
It wouldn't have been the Smiley we know in my version, it would have been something like the non-SMiLE bits plus something else that would have been created.

Maybe. But if Smile hadn't been so late -- say, it actually came out in late 66 or January 67 -- would Brian and the band have needed to release two more 1967 LPs? Maybe there would have been some sort of hybrid album, combining the Smiley chants that BW was getting into, along with more of the R&B influence of Wild Honey.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2011, 05:47:13 PM by Wirestone » Logged
anazgnos
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 384



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2011, 05:50:18 PM »

Quote
It probably isn't a given that SMiLE would have been any more of a band success than Smiley.

Another central question. And again, one that we can't know the answer to. Depends on when it came out, probably, and what form the songs would have taken. I see arguments for its success -- a full record of "that Good Vibrations sound" -- but the music scene was moving at light speed then.

Quote
It wouldn't have been the Smiley we know in my version, it would have been something like the non-SMiLE bits plus something else that would have been created.

Maybe. But if Smile hadn't been so late -- say, it actually came out in late 66 or January 67 -- would Brian and the band have needed to release two more 1967 LPs? Maybe there would have been some sort of hybrid album, combining the Smiley chants that BW was getting into, along with more of the R&B influence of Wild Honey.


Wild Smiley!  If you add up the non-Smile-related bits of SS & WH it's just around 40 minutes of music.  There's a hypothetical single LP to be made out of that set of material.
Logged
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6043



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2011, 05:58:50 PM »

With a lengthy Can't Wait too Long as the centerpiece, absolutely. And getting rid of How She Boogalooed It.
Logged
Zach95
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 893


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2011, 06:15:34 PM »

I don't think anyone can doubt the would have been commercial success of Smile.  Capitol was promoting the hell out of it, and the Beach Boys, popularity wise, were right on par with the Beatles.  In the UK, Smile would have been a smash hit undoubtedly.  And if the Beach Boys play Monterey, who knows what else would come?  Though, I highly doubt they really move to the R&B scene, I feel the Smiley Smile chants are definitely a more likely candidate, if not with much better production and quality compared to what was actually released.  After that, I don't think anyone can really predict what would have happened...

 Now, what I would LIKE to believe is that Smile would have changed the pop music scene like Sgt. Pepper did, and that the Beach Boys would have gone down as forever the gods of popular music. However, the ONLY way this could have ever happened is if the Beach Boys broke up before 1970.  Not EVERY band slowly moves towards unpopularity and into the "wilderness years" (i.e. The Beatles).  If the Beach Boys break up before 1970, at the peak of their careers after releasing a monumental achievement like Smile, just as the Beatles did, then perhaps they are perceived today just as the Beatles are.  The Beatles never released a BAD album. They never descended into the depths of awful commercial success and were never seen as an oldies band re-playing their golden years.  Their identities were preserved, and they have since been hailed as the most influential band...ever.  However...even if the Beach Boys were the greatest rock and roll group ever and they split before the 70's, we would never have the post-Smile material that we have today, and I can't say I would sacrifice post-Smile albums for commercial success and a preserved Beach Boys identity. I think everything played out just fine the way it did...barring Dennis's tragic death and the death of Carl as well.  And really, it doesn't matter one bit because we can't change the past  Grin
Logged

Ain't nothin' upside your head!
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2011, 06:26:04 PM »

And getting rid of How She Boogalooed It.

No.
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
anazgnos
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 384



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2011, 07:04:53 PM »

And getting rid of How She Boogalooed It.

No.

Yeah, I'd keep that one and get rid of "I Was Made to Love Her".  It's a fine rendition but they don't need to be mucking about with covers with such a fine surplus of original material.

I've never gotten the Boogaloo hate.  It rocks.  The organ sound is killer.
Logged
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2011, 07:06:28 PM »

Yeah, I'd keep that one and get rid of "I Was Made to Love Her".

Removing a song with Carl singing like that is also criminal imo.
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
onkster
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 882


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2011, 07:16:14 PM »

I still think, what with the home studio thing happening, he would have done something just like Smiley Smile but with a few different tracks--no full-fledged Smile retreads (Wonderful, Wind Chimes, the singles). The general thing that seemed to happen in the late 60s was: big wild trip followed by rootsy return home.

I think the bigger question is: what would have happened after that? Would Brian have still wanted to control production, or would he be more into handing out tasks as he did in "this timeline"?

I dunno. I still could do without "Wild Honey" as it stands (and I suppose I'm one of the few that can't abide Carl's "I Was Made to Love Her"--it just suffers soooo much in comparison to Stevie), and would prefer that they would have moved straight on to some sort of hybrid of 20/20, Sunflower, and Surf's Up--with more Brian dominance.
Logged
hypehat
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6311



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2011, 07:35:04 PM »

Duh, he would have become international Breakdance champion of '68 and spent the rest of his days learning to how to play the tubular bells with his schlong before dying tragically in the Challenger Disaster.


Which is to say, these threads are kinda redundant.
Logged

All roads lead to Kokomo. Exhaustive research in time travel has conclusively proven that there is no alternate universe WITHOUT Kokomo. It would've happened regardless.
What is this "life" thing you speak of ?

Quote from: Al Jardine
Syncopate it? In front of all these people?!
gfx
Pages: [1] 2 3 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.84 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!