What Might Carl Have Added to the TSS Project Had He Still Been Around?

[harrisonjon]

Is it likely that Carl may have remembered some pieces or connections that have slipped Brian's memory?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

I think if Carl had been around, there may have been a case for adding new vocals.

Though in this entirely imagined scenario, I would still need convincing.

[harrisonjon]

The scenario would have to stretch to Carl's vocals still being up to that job in his 60's, although even today he'd only be 64 (a sobering thought).

[Iron Horse-Apples]

The scenario would have to stretch to Carl's vocals still being up to that job in his 60's, although even today he'd only be 64 (a sobering thought).

He was a committed smoker, yes.

But on your first point, I find it quite likely that Carl would have remembered a few little details. Out of all the Beach Boys, he and Dennis were around for a lot of the instrumental sessions as well, and would have been privy to the evolution of the project.

Who knows?

[harrisonjon]

I'm also thinking about Carl's usage of the tapes in 1971 and what he may have gleaned from that research.

[BJL]

Is it likely that Carl may have remembered some pieces or connections that have slipped Brian's memory?

Based on Carl's work finishing Our Prayer, Cabinessence, and especially Surf's Up, his incredible production and arranging skills, his presence at many Smile sessions, the irreplaceable kinship he felt with Brian based on their being family, and the fact that his voice only seemed to get better with age, I strongly feel that Carl Wilson was 100% as capable of finishing Smile as Brian, whether in 1968, 1971, or today.  Of course, the level of work required and the fact that it just wasn't Carl's music to begin with, I think is what kept him from actually doing it.  But given his success with Surf's Up, and I think that Carl could asolutely created a finished version of Do You Like Worms which we would likely now view just as authoritatively as we do his Cabinessence and Surf's Up, that he could easily have put together an elements suite drawing on Cool Cool Water and the Fire Music, and that generally speaking he had what it took to finish the album...minus the desire to finish the album or the sense that it was his place to do so much work on Brian's child. 

That said, given how close Worms was to finished, and the fact that the lyrics and melody survived, I think it is an absolute tragedy that Carl didn't finish and release the song in 1979 for the LA Light album as planned. 

[harrisonjon]

Why didn't he finish it in '79? Was it due to that being his hard drugs phase?

[drbeachboy]

Why didn't he finish it in '79? Was it due to that being his hard drugs phase?

Carl was cleaned up before the sessions for the L.A. (Light Album). His getting clean was one of the reasons he stopped working with Dennis on Bambu in 1978. I believe this is covered in Jon's book on Dennis.

[Chris Brown]

Is it likely that Carl may have remembered some pieces or connections that have slipped Brian's memory?

Based on Carl's work finishing Our Prayer, Cabinessence, and especially Surf's Up, his incredible production and arranging skills, his presence at many Smile sessions, the irreplaceable kinship he felt with Brian based on their being family, and the fact that his voice only seemed to get better with age, I strongly feel that Carl Wilson was 100% as capable of finishing Smile as Brian, whether in 1968, 1971, or today.  Of course, the level of work required and the fact that it just wasn't Carl's music to begin with, I think is what kept him from actually doing it.  But given his success with Surf's Up, and I think that Carl could asolutely created a finished version of Do You Like Worms which we would likely now view just as authoritatively as we do his Cabinessence and Surf's Up, that he could easily have put together an elements suite drawing on Cool Cool Water and the Fire Music, and that generally speaking he had what it took to finish the album...minus the desire to finish the album or the sense that it was his place to do so much work on Brian's child. 

That said, given how close Worms was to finished, and the fact that the lyrics and melody survived, I think it is an absolute tragedy that Carl didn't finish and release the song in 1979 for the LA Light album as planned. 

Finishing tracks that were fully composed and 90% recorded is a lot different than finishing an album so full of random fragments and loose ends that even the creator couldn't completely make sense of it. 

I don't disagree that Carl was a talented producer and arranger, but I think that once he and Desper got out the tapes, he realized he was in over his head and knew that he wasn't up to the task of finishing the album.

[mistermono]

So the mooted LA Light DYLM - just how "mooted" was it? Did they get out the tapes and say "maybe we should have a crack at it"? Was any work done (I assume not).

[CarlTheVoice]

A very intriguing thread and some very interesting comments here. I think Carl's voice now wouldn't even touch his younger voice but it could have been used for some parts in TSS I guess. I think he would have loved to have seen it released and the point about the fact he would have been 64? That is still young! What a shame. We would probably have seen a lot more promo for it if Carl was still here.