Smile Box set: Ghost melodies, clues, hints, and new mysteries

[The Song Of The Grange]

I've noticed a few interesting posts regarding bleed-through melodies, new clues in session studio chatter etc.

Bicyclerider commented that during the H&V Prelude to Fade sessions he mentions that there will be lyrics for that piece of music [disc 2, track  19 right at the beginning].

Yorkic made the very interesting point that during the DYLW part 1 sessions BW can be heard singing what sounds like the "once upon the sandwich isles" lyrics, but with a different melody (and he sings it right after talking to VDP) [Disc 3, track 1 around 3:15].

talahrama made the comment that you can hear the bleed through of a melody on Love to Say Da Da [Disc 4, track 11] at around 1:37.

And of course the big clue we already knew about during the Our Prayer sessions--Brian saying "this is a little  intro to the album" [disc 2, track 1 right at the beginning]. I have noticed before that BW talks about Old Master Painter having lyrics (you can here it on the box set on disc 3, track 6 at about 2:04). As a smile archaeologist these things thrill me to no end.

So, I'm wondering if anyone else find anything else like this on the new box set (or on boots they've heard in the past)?

The melody BW sings on the DYLW part 1 session is real interesting because it is different than the melody used in BWPS. Was this what the real Worms verse melody sounded like? It's fun to think about.

[trismegistus]

Yeah, all this stuff is really interesting, the DYLW bit blew me away. I didn't notice a couple you mentioned, I'll have to look them up.

As far as The Old Master Painter goes, remember that it's an old standard, so it's had lyrics for a while...Sinatra covered it. In the session where Brian quotes the lyrics, he may have just been giving the musicians a point of reference for the melody.

[JohnMill]

Yeah, all this stuff is really interesting, the DYLW bit blew me away. I didn't notice a couple you mentioned, I'll have to look them up.

As far as The Old Master Painter goes, remember that it's an old standard, so it's had lyrics for a while...Sinatra covered it. In the session where Brian quotes the lyrics, he may have just been giving the musicians a point of reference for the melody.

He also sang a bit of OMP during a "Pet Sounds" session too.

As for DYLW the fact that the Sandwich isles lyrics are sung to a different melody makes sense as I've never been able personally to make the "West Indies" lyrics fit the backing track.  Maybe if they were sung to a different melody they would fit as well? 

[runnersdialzero]

I swear to God I hear Brian singing a melody on part of "Holidays" before the finished take is done when the other guys are going over it. It took me ages to figure it out, but it almost sounds like part of the "Wind Chimes" melody to my ears. Interesting considering the songs are already linked through the ending becoming the tag of the Smiley Smile "Wind Chimes".

[pixletwin]

For what it's worth, the meldoy Brian sings to "Once upon the sandwich isles" is repeated in the strings during a few tracks later. I may be wrong. lol

[runnersdialzero]

I'm really thinking it was the original vocal melody. Shame he doesn't finish the last half of it it'd have been nice if this was around before BWPS as to jog his memory.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I swear to God I hear Brian singing a melody on part of "Holidays" before the finished take is done when the other guys are going over it. It took me ages to figure it out, but it almost sounds like part of the "Wind Chimes" melody to my ears. Interesting considering the songs are already linked through the ending becoming the tag of the Smiley Smile "Wind Chimes".

I think it sounds like the melody of "Our Sweet Love". "Pretty things like incense and flowers". When this is revealed as truth, please remember who said it first.

[runnersdialzero]

I swear to God I hear Brian singing a melody on part of "Holidays" before the finished take is done when the other guys are going over it. It took me ages to figure it out, but it almost sounds like part of the "Wind Chimes" melody to my ears. Interesting considering the songs are already linked through the ending becoming the tag of the Smiley Smile "Wind Chimes".

I think it sounds like the melody of "Our Sweet Love". "Pretty things like incense and flowers". When this is revealed as truth, please remember who said it first.

Also sounds like "A tear rolls off my cheek". But yerp, that's also the "Pretty things like incense and flowers" melody, too. Probably more so than "Wind Chimes", as it's missing the little ascending bit at the end, but it's not exactly the same as "Our Sweet Love" either.

Short example: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088//holidaysvocaldemonstration.mp3

[Dunderhead]

I was thinking of making this thread,
During All Day, Brian says that during the pauses there was supposed to be talking. I wonder.
He also puts child in Cool Cool Water. I used to wonder if it was just an outtake during the dada sessions, but Brian clearly wanted it in there.

[Wirestone]

My first instinct is to discount these vocal improvs as hugely important. The Holidays one, in particular, is so short that it could mean nearly anything. A part, a melody line, just some scatting. Who knows? The BWPS version is satisfying on its own terms.

The Worms one is tantalizing, but it raises so many questions. Why weren't there more lyrics? What would go in the rest of the verse? How does it fit with the monotone melody line that BW remembered in 2003? Given the number of things flying around BW's head at this time, I wouldn't discount that it was part of a call-and-response structure meant for the verse -- like the "look so fine" and "caught my eyes" falsetto bits in "Help Me Rhonda."

But it could just as easily be a joke.

[Wirestone]

And there is space in the verses to add that falsetto bit as the response to the first line ...

Low, chanting style: "Waving from the ocean liners"

High falsetto response: "Waving from the ocean liners"

Low, chanting style: "The bearded cheering Indians behind us."

High falsetto response: "Indians behind us."

The new part fits perfectly with the guitar riff.

[The Song Of The Grange]

I was thinking of making this thread,
During All Day, Brian says that during the pauses there was supposed to be talking. I wonder.
He also puts child in Cool Cool Water. I used to wonder if it was just an outtake during the dada sessions, but Brian clearly wanted it in there.

Thanks Fishmonk. I hadn't caught that comment in All Day. For those who want to check it out it happens at around 1:25. The suggestion of talking in the breaks makes me think the tune wasn't linked to a water theme yet, but I guess "talking" could mean just about anything (even those "under the sea" sound effects BW and friends did).

I think  the "Child" in Cool Cool Water Fishmonk is talking about is the breakdown going into the mystery 3rd section of Da Da--am I correct? That one has always been tantalizing for me. I wonder if it has something to do with the idea with the low piano notes near the end of the All Day track on the box set that doesn't sound like the rest of the Da Da/Cool Water idea?

[mammy blue]

I don't see how the Worms melody in the box can be so easily dismissed by some people as a joke or throwaway when it's so melodic and intricate compared to the drone we hear on BWPS.

[Chris Brown]

And there is space in the verses to add that falsetto bit as the response to the first line ...

Low, chanting style: "Waving from the ocean liners"

High falsetto response: "Waving from the ocean liners"

Low, chanting style: "The bearded cheering Indians behind us."

High falsetto response: "Indians behind us."

The new part fits perfectly with the guitar riff.

That's what I was thinking.  As much as I'd like to believe it was the original main melody, the fact that Brian remembered only the melody we heard on BWPS tells me that it was just a forgotten background part.

[The Song Of The Grange]

I don't see how the Worms melody in the box can be so easily dismissed by some people as a joke or throwaway when it's so melodic and intricate compared to the drone we hear on BWPS.

I agree. And the interesting thing is he is kind of checking in with VDP who is obviously either out in the studio or in the booth, so he is thinking about the lyrics when he sings that melody. It also sounds like he doesn't quite know the words yet.

[Wirestone]

I think the fact that we don't have more lyrics -- even though they're apparently complete as is -- suggests that the high part can't be the main melody. It would be used up to quickly.

when it's so melodic and intricate compared to the drone we hear on BWPS.

I wouldn't say that. It's a single, unaccompanied vocal line that duplicates a guitar pattern already in the song. He could have just been singing along to that pattern. And I really think the "drone" is kind of the point for the Worms verses. It's part of what makes the song seem so creepy.

[mammy blue]

I think the fact that we don't have more lyrics -- even though they're apparently complete as is -- suggests that the high part can't be the main melody. It would be used up to quickly.

when it's so melodic and intricate compared to the drone we hear on BWPS.

I wouldn't say that. It's a single, unaccompanied vocal line that duplicates a guitar pattern already in the song. He could have just been singing along to that pattern. And I really think the "drone" is kind of the point for the Worms verses. It's part of what makes the song seem so creepy.

I don't think it's supposed to be creepy, though. The lyrics are about seafaring and westward expansion. It doesn't duplicate the guitar line, either; the notes are different. I just don't think the BWPS Worms melody was up to the standard set by most of the other SMiLE melodies. It serviced the chords, but this new melody rings true to me, the way it dances around the basic chords in a vintage Brian Wilson way. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

[Wirestone]

So, you think Brian of 2003 just created the melody on the fly?

Given his utter lack of interest in doing that for any other song on the set (every other "new" BWPS melody is based on pre-existing instrumental lines), I find that really hard to imagine.

And maybe the chanting was supposed to be the backing vocal. But why would he remember that and not the high part?

[Dunderhead]

It's just so tantalizing. Like in All Day, at the end, he goes into the booth and says "I just want to come in and tell you guys what I want you to do on the track", tell us Brian, what do you want us to do!?

When did Da Da gain the Child part? It was originally recorded at a Heroes session, but it doesn't have a count on the 12/22 session, was it called Da Da then? Then it became All Day by 1/27, at another Heroes session. At 1:33 there's a new piece of music in there, where Child is on the other versions, sounds sort of GV-ish to me, but I don't see any overt connections to any other tracks. On 5/16, for the fully orchestrated version, Child is in there and the song also gains the Da Da title. And then Child shows up again during the Wild Honey version of Cool Cool Water.
What was going on with this song?

[mammy blue]

So, you think Brian of 2003 just created the melody on the fly?

Given his utter lack of interest in doing that for any other song on the set (every other "new" BWPS melody is based on pre-existing instrumental lines), I find that really hard to imagine.

And maybe the chanting was supposed to be the backing vocal. But why would he remember that and not the high one?

That BWPS melody pretty much mimics the chord structure and existing backing vocs, but I'm not going to second guess Brian at any age. Maybe both versions were in consideration at different points. I do know which one I prefer.

[Wirestone]

Maybe both versions were in consideration at different points. I do know which one I prefer.

But there is no other version! There are a few second of Brian singing one line of a song. What you mean is you prefer a version that you imagine takes off from where that vocal bit begins. We can't know! (Although perhaps someone will mix us up a version real soon ...)

What was going on with this song?

I've come to think that there are basically four key tracks to Smile. Four tracks that show Brian's entire mental trajectory. And they are all the ones he worked the hardest on.

1.) Good Vibes. He creates the modular approach. But not without tears!

2.) Heroes and Villains. He can't find the hit single inside the sections, but he's determined to try.

3.) Vega-Tables. Maybe another single will do the trick. We see the Smiley Smile aesthetic appear ... very sparse tracks.

4.) Da-Da. With the project in shambles, Brian just starts experimenting with a track that covers both the adult-child themes he'd thought of before and the elemental ones too. It becomes a repository of his hopes and dreams for the project, lasting into the Wild Honey sessions and beyond.

[runnersdialzero]

I wouldn't say that. It's a single, unaccompanied vocal line that duplicates a guitar pattern already in the song. He could have just been singing along to that pattern.

Where? And why would he start singing that melody with words behind it? Doesn't add up. I really believe it's part of the original melody.

I don't get a "creepy" vibe from "Worms", either. Not from the verses at least. I DISAGREE IMO.

Also, as far as new verse melodies on BWPS, there's also "Child Is The Father Of The Man" and possibly "Look", both of which aren't particularly melodic like the vocal on the verses of "Worms" in 04. So that kinda discredits the theory a bit that he never came up with any new melodies for BWPS.

[Matt Bielewicz]

But hang on... this so-called 'new Worms melody' just does NOT rhythmically fit the verse. There aren't enough syllables left in the lyrics to fit the line, or alternatively, there are too many rhythmic spaces in the line for the lyrics to fill.

If you try mapping those syllables to the finished lyrics, you just don't have enough syllables to fill the line:

Brian sings: "Once-UP-on-the-SAND-wich-isles-the-DES-o-da-dee". THAT fits OK. But that means you'd have THIS with the finished lyrics:

"Once-UP-on-the-SAND-wich-isles-the-SO-cial-struc-TURE"

and then you'd have to start the next line with:

"Steamed-UP-on-hawaii..." and then you're out of words, less than halfway through the second line. It just DOES. NOT. WORK.

It works even LESS well with the other lines we know. Mapping what we hear Brian half-sing, half-mumble on to those:

"Wav-ing-FROM-the-OC-ean-liners-BEAD-ed-cheer-ing"

"In-DI-ans-be-HIND-us..." out of words again!

Now, I don't believe Brian sang it as a 'joke', as some people have said - why would you do this, and draw VDP's attention to it like that? that just doesn't make sense, and clearly he was trying to do SOMETHING. So consider what he's trying to do at the point when he sings it. "It's a little bit fast, Jimmy... let's go one... two..." [claps a rhythm and tempo as he says this] "...right, Van?" [still beating time, sings:] "Once-UP-on-the-SAND-wich-isles-the-DES-o-da-dee..." [tails off into mumbling].

He's trying to set the tempo and rhythmic feel of the take. I just think he's more focused on those aspects than on the melody when he sings it. So the melody may well be wrong, or an early try for what he was going to end up with. It sounds to me as though he's read a few of Van Dyke's lines through once, and they haven't stuck in his head yet, but he's trying to sing something approximately right so the musicians know what tempo and rhythmic feel the backing track should have.

I absolutely don't think we can just assume that this is 'the real Worms melody', because it doesn't work with the lyrics we know are finished, nor the rhythm of the track the melody was supposed to go over. Maybe it's a harmony part. Maybe it's a tryout for the melody, and Brian didn't know the lyrics yet. Maybe he just made it up on the spot to set the metre and tempo for the session players, and garnished it with a fragment of the new VDP lyrics he read that afternoon for the first time before the session. But it definitely doesn't work as a melody for the main part of the verse, with the lyrics we know.

Unless I have my understanding of the metre horribly tangled - and if so, show me! I'd love to be proved wrong, here, so please, edit me up some audio that shows how it could have gone. Or post a sound file somewhere of you singing it the way you think it could work. Because I just CAN'T hear it.

MattB

[Winston Wrong]

Will have to listen to all 5 discs to locate these parts again but 3 things I noticed (or can remember this time in the morning!) are..

1, Briain saying "Do you like worms?" during a session, although I don't think it was during a worms session - Maybe the first time this song title is mentioned.

2, During the Bag of Tricks session, Dennis? mentions a Police Officer and that you could play a tune on a Police Siren - then someone (Carl, Al or Bruce maybe) mentions that you can play a tune on a Touch-Tone phone! Didn't even know they existed back then?!? Maybe could have been used with the Reconected telephone direct dialing line from Cabin..

3, One of the guys mentions a sound effect they are attempting sounds like someone crunching Vegetables, again not at a Vegetables session, maybe Brian got the idea from here?

Sorry I can't be more specific with track numbers! I was listening on headphones at work.

[runnersdialzero]

Brian sings: "Once-UP-on-the-SAND-wich-isles-the-DES-o-da-dee". THAT fits OK. But that means you'd have THIS with the finished lyrics:

The issue there is that Brian trails off and we don't have the complete melody.