gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680601 Posts in 27601 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 29, 2024, 08:53:34 AM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Boxset Book Discussion: Brian's liner notes and the essays  (Read 15128 times)
Andrew G. Doe
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 17767


The triumph of The Hickey Script !


View Profile WWW
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2011, 03:56:09 PM »

Thanks, Ron. I guess part of my point was that Mike could have written a million different kinds of essays, focused on other topics like his admiration of the song Wonderful, without misrepresenting himself and compromising his integrity.

Wouldn't have made any difference to some people if he'd written The Gospels: he's Mike Love, therefore it sucks.
Logged

The four sweetest words in my vocabulary: "This poster is ignored".
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3744



View Profile
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2011, 04:05:17 PM »

It's a care by case thing. Roger Waters can site there all he wants and claim that the emotional aspect of Dark Side Of The Moon springs from the lyrics, but it's hard to jive with that when the most emotional affecting song on the album (Great Gig) has no lyrics at all!

I find the lyrics to Surf's Up to be HUGELY emotionally affecting, so it's a hard thing to pin down.

I just think overall with the Beach Boys, the lyrics are maybe more important than just about any other band I can think of other than maybe The Velvets.
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2011, 04:39:01 PM »

Only six months more.

And Ron, please kick me if I'm being pedantic, but youdid say "nobodies been a frontman for 50 years" There was no mention of time on the road.

I'm bent over ready for my kick.

Sigh.  Lets get pedantic. 

The Beach Boys were formed in 1961. 

The Rolling Stones were formed in 1962. 

We are tripping the light fantastic, in the year 2011. 
Logged
Loaf
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 838


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2011, 04:47:49 PM »

I'm disappointed by the absence of Parks in the booklet.  A supposedly brilliant writer can't throw together a couple hundred words? 

The reason for his non-contribution will doubtless emerge in the fullness of time.


Will it make up for his absence, or just explain it?


I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...

On a completely and separately unrelated note that is in no way whatsoever related, Mike's essay was pretty honest to admit to the negativity on his part.
Logged
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3744



View Profile
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2011, 04:57:34 PM »

Only six months more.

And Ron, please kick me if I'm being pedantic, but youdid say "nobodies been a frontman for 50 years" There was no mention of time on the road.

I'm bent over ready for my kick.

Sigh.  Lets get pedantic.  

The Beach Boys were formed in 1961.  

We are tripping the light fantastic, in the year 2011.  


But I'll bet Mike's done more dates as a frontman...... by a longshot!

Sooooo, hmmmmm, Scorcese better be reading this: Bob, George, he needs to get his Mike movie up and running!  Evil

The Rolling Stones were formed in 1962. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 05:19:07 PM by Erik H » Logged
Amy B.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1654


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2011, 05:04:48 PM »

I want people to like Mike, I really do.

This is crucial to the Mike Love story.  To understand Mike and where he's coming from, and to fully appreciate him, you have to understand this one simple concept:

Mike puts his own opinion of himself, and what is right and what is wrong for himself, his band, Brian, all of that.... way, way, way above whether or not anybody likes him.  

I've met people in life like this.  

He doesn't care if you like him, but I genuinely think he feels he's doing the best possible thing when he does it.  I don't feel he's a selfish person.  The reason he didn't like the lyrics wasn't because he personally didn't want to sing them.  It's because he thought He, Brian, Carl, Al, Dennis, and Bruce wouldn't make money off of it.  He without a doubt loves Brian to death, and thought that the friends that were hangers on were screwing Brian up, etc.

It's not important that Mike's right or wrong in his opinion on this, to understand him you only need to understand how he feels, like you said.


I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm not sure I agree that he doesn't care whether anyone likes him. He's very defensive, so to me, he cares a lot. He wants to set the record straight. And that's fine. I get the sense that he lacks self-awareness. It's almost like he doesn't realize why people have this image of him--why he comes off the way he does. Like you said, he's dysfunctional like Brian, but in a different way, and he lacks social skills. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't been a BB fan as long as a lot of the people on this board.
For me, I'm usually going to side with the person who is pushing artistic boundaries, rather than the person who wants things to stay the way they are for security. So going in, I was on Brian's "side," as the story was presented. Nowadays, I have a better understanding of where Mike is coming from. I know he loves Brian. I know he loves and feels protective of the Beach Boys. I know he sees the BBs as his family. But it still drives me crazy that he can't explain himself without coming off like he does. Because if he knew how to express himself better, he would come off better.
Logged
MBE
Guest
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2011, 05:19:00 PM »

I want people to like Mike, I really do.

This is crucial to the Mike Love story.  To understand Mike and where he's coming from, and to fully appreciate him, you have to understand this one simple concept:

Mike puts his own opinion of himself, and what is right and what is wrong for himself, his band, Brian, all of that.... way, way, way above whether or not anybody likes him.  

I've met people in life like this.  

He doesn't care if you like him, but I genuinely think he feels he's doing the best possible thing when he does it.  I don't feel he's a selfish person.  The reason he didn't like the lyrics wasn't because he personally didn't want to sing them.  It's because he thought He, Brian, Carl, Al, Dennis, and Bruce wouldn't make money off of it.  He without a doubt loves Brian to death, and thought that the friends that were hangers on were screwing Brian up, etc.

It's not important that Mike's right or wrong in his opinion on this, to understand him you only need to understand how he feels, like you said.


I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm not sure I agree that he doesn't care whether anyone likes him. He's very defensive, so to me, he cares a lot. He wants to set the record straight. And that's fine. I get the sense that he lacks self-awareness. It's almost like he doesn't realize why people have this image of him--why he comes off the way he does. Like you said, he's dysfunctional like Brian, but in a different way, and he lacks social skills. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't been a BB fan as long as a lot of the people on this board.
For me, I'm usually going to side with the person who is pushing artistic boundaries, rather than the person who wants things to stay the way they are for security. So going in, I was on Brian's "side," as the story was presented. Nowadays, I have a better understanding of where Mike is coming from. I know he loves Brian. I know he loves and feels protective of the Beach Boys. I know he sees the BBs as his family. But it still drives me crazy that he can't explain himself without coming off like he does. Because if he knew how to express himself better, he would come off better.
Brian was never verbally that easy to understand either except maybe in his twentes. Mike and Brian just don't come off well compared to say Bruce (at times) or Al to the general public or person who isn't deeply involved. I'm not knocking them but even Dennis (who could be crude sometimes) was able in his better moments to verbally express himself in an interview situation. Carl came off guarded but he had a nice temporment so that really leaves Mike and Brian and they were and are just somewhat eccentric. That again isn't a knock. I don't think either of them would have been able to do what they did if they were completely thinking "normally". Mike may not have liked Van Dyke's lyrics but I wouldn't say he wasn't artistic overall at least before Endless Summer. Cautious at times, but someone who wrote the lyrics for Please Let Me Wonder, Good Vibrations, All This Is That, or Big Sur obviously had a creative bent themself.
Logged
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3744



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2011, 05:31:01 PM »

Right on the money, Mike!

Dennis has always come across to me as the most articulate and socially adjusted Beach Boy. Personal issues aside, he always seemed together and hip and able to freely express himself in words and music.

Al is Al, Bruce is well spoken but a bit airy, Carl was careful and measured with his words.

...... Brian and Mike are both bats#*t crazy!
Logged
SMiLE Brian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8432



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2011, 05:38:30 PM »

...... Brian and Mike are both bats#*t crazy!
So want a stand up comedy show with Brian and Mike because they are really funny when interact with each other. LOL
Logged

And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3744



View Profile
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2011, 05:43:25 PM »

And toss Van Dyke in there as the straight-man!  LOL

Logged
Bill Tobelman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Posts: 537



View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2011, 06:04:07 PM »

I love the book.

In 2004 there was a lot of Brian & Van Dyke in that concert program but what bugged me was the "It's about Americana" vibe that went around.

With the box set book & the cd set notes there is an admission that there may be more going on than initially meets the eyes & ears. For that reason alone this is a big step forward.

Brian's notes are awesome--other folks have already stated as much.

Tom Nolan's are terrific as well IMHO. I like the quotes he selected & where he was going with things.

Frank Holmes' comments are the most important & best as usual. Come on folks get on board with Frank's comments.

Peter Reum branched out a bit this time around-building upon his past observations with his unique level of sensitivity. When BWPS came out Peter added Gershwin into the conversation. This time around LSD was mentioned. Nice job Peter.

Domenic Priore also summed up his past observations nicely linking the times & places & bands & people & ideas which is his forte.

If there's a bombshell here it's that we've moved from "It's Americana" to "It's maybe more than you think." That's a huge step in SMiLE-land.
Logged

"Connect, Always Connect..." - Arthur Koestler

"No discovery has ever been made by logical deduction..." - Arthur Koestler
oldsurferdude
Guest
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2011, 06:32:54 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 08:02:15 PM by oldsurferdude » Logged
Ian
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1833


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2011, 06:48:34 PM »

Personally my favorite part of the book was the great sessionography by Craig and Alan, which is outstanding, and all the great photos and illustrations.  And of course seeing my name among the special thanks was a personal thrill.  Only disappointment-No AGD essay and no Jon Stebbins essay!!!
I have only listened to disc 1 so far-so back to the CD player for me!
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2011, 08:16:04 PM »

I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...

Come on man.  An 'executive veto'.  In other words, you think Mike did it.

Mike had nothing, and I mean NOTHING to do with it.
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2011, 08:21:04 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a sh*t if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2011, 08:22:24 PM »

Personally my favorite part of the book was the great sessionography by Craig and Alan, which is outstanding, and all the great photos and illustrations.  And of course seeing my name among the special thanks was a personal thrill.  Only disappointment-No AGD essay and no Jon Stebbins essay!!!
I have only listened to disc 1 so far-so back to the CD player for me!

that's the only thing I really miss only having the 2cd set... I don't get all the essays, or the sessionography.  The second CD isn't even mentioned in the booklet, there's just a tracklisting on the back of the box.
Logged
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3744



View Profile
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2011, 08:47:07 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?

Hey now, go easy on the OSD! Who else around here can get their balls busted as hard as him and still retain their sense of humor?

Certainly not me!!

But I agree. Jagger is the greatest front man in history but Mike works harder. Plus, Mick's had his own share of questionable wardrobe choices over the years and he just MIGHT be bald, but we'd never know it unlike Myke who's proudly rocked his ham head like the bad-ass that he is!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 08:48:15 PM by Erik H » Logged
oldsurferdude
Guest
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 08:49:39 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. Angry
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 08:51:07 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. Angry

Aw.  A net bully.  Isn't that cute. 
Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2011, 08:56:05 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?

Hey now, go easy on the OSD! Who else around here can get their balls busted as hard as him and still retain their sense of humor?

Certainly not me!!

But I agree. Jagger is the greatest front man in history but Mike works harder. Plus, Mick's had his own share of questionable wardrobe choices over the years and he just MIGHT be bald, but we'd never know it unlike Myke who's proudly rocked his ham head like the bad-ass that he is!

I've seen both Mike and Mick in concert, both past their prime.  The Rolling Stones was the greatest concert I ever went to.  I saw them on their "Bridges to Babylon" tour.  Mick ran around the stage for 2 hours half dressed.  I think he was already in his late 50's then.  Easily the best concert I ever went to. 
Logged
mammy blue
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 252


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2011, 08:56:44 PM »


I would guess that an executive veto was exercised in not allowing VDP a direct outlet in the booklet... keeping the focus on The Boys and their contribution in the name of 'harmony' and actually getting agreements to release the damn thing at all. VDP's personal experience wasn't altogether a joyous one and it's likely any in-depth essay would have reflected this...


That's not what happened either.
Logged
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3744



View Profile
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2011, 09:03:30 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. Angry

Thanks for the scowl face otherwise this could be ..... er..... easily misinterpreted  Evil
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 09:04:31 PM by Erik H » Logged
Ron
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5086


View Profile
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2011, 09:10:55 PM »

Jagger's been on the road a long time, but not on the level of Mike.  First Mike started before Jagger, and i'll bet for at least the last 30 years Mike's played more dates.  


What is the level of Myke? So he has 12 months on Jagger?  LOL Luhv is a stage clown and Jagger has always been the real deal. With his junior high repertoire along with his baldness, he singlehandidly lessened the impact of the band being taken seriously over the last 30 years. Additionally, the band had to book many more dates than the Stones just to catch up to them moneywise. Sorry, Jagger is hip-Myke never was and never will be.

Mick Jagger is awesome.  He hasn't worked half as hard as Mike Love has.  I know you've got a hard-on for Mike but frankly I don't give a feces if you dont' like him.  BTW isn't it past your bed time at the retirement home, old man?
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. Angry

Thanks for the scowl face otherwise this could be ..... er..... easily misinterpreted  Evil

He's just cranky, they must have got his metamucil dose wrong again. 

Notice we were talking about things, and he came along and jumped on me with both feet.  I suggested he was 'old' because his name is 'oldsurferdude'.... and then he threatened to whip my ass.  You might respect him, but I don't.  He sounds like a bully to me, and I'm not intimidated by that crap.
Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11844


🍦🍦 Pet Demon for Sale - $5 or best offer ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2011, 09:11:31 PM »

Quote
This old man would love to have a couple of rounds with a punk like you and your mouth. Angry

Thanks for the scowl face otherwise this could be ..... er..... easily misinterpreted  Evil

Must...not...make...Deliverance...joke...
Logged

Need your song mixed/mastered? Contact me at fear2stop@yahoo.com. Serious inquiries only, please!
Wirestone
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 6043



View Profile
« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2011, 09:23:48 PM »

I don't react quite as well to Brian's notes. They strike me as Todd Gold-ish. But I'm glad ya'll like them.

Mike, on the other hand, did a fine job.
Logged
gfx
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.766 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!