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Author Topic: The REAL reason Brian abandoned SMiLE?  (Read 22165 times)
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #200 on: April 02, 2014, 01:02:59 PM »

Wow, this thread went to hell right quick.

Wrong. It went to hell a long time ago.

This is just a revival.  Wink
Any thread about Smile, Mike, Brian & VDP goes to hell as soon as the first person responds to it. And, if we go back to any other thread about Smile's demise, it is always the same old argument over & over. We've beaten this dead horse a 100 times over. Oy! Wink

At least 100 times, and not just on this board.  Some people love to revive and regurgitate it.

I see no problem discussing it. Remember, not everyone's been on the board here forever. However, once it descends into back and forth bickering with no new info or thoughtful speculation coming out, it's useless.
All of the posts are still here to read if one will use the Search function. Should you do that, you will see that all that has transpired here, transpired before. Using Yogi Berra's famous line "It's deja vu, all over again." Wink

But, that's exactly what I'm doing. Posting on old threads to add my own input. It's not like I'm starting new threads about topic that have already been discussed.
Yes, but we are still discussing the same stuff and arguing the same old arguments. All I can say is that from what I can glean from the people who post here that have really studied the matter, is that Brian and the lack of technology are the two areas to point the finger. Whether band members disagreed or didn't like some of the material, Brian was the boss. Even if they kicked and screamed through the entire process, if Brian had really wanted it completed and released,  they would have went work and completed it.

If you read my posts you'll see that I agree. Sorry for bringing up old topics but you don't have to get involved and for me this is the first time discussing the topic with people who actually know/care enough to discuss it intelligently.

And as I've said before (and it's not difficult to get me to say it again), I am sorry if I ever come off as annoying or a broken record.
From my perspective, I find it annoying when people refuse to respond to a portion of a question, or when people resort to sarcasm instead of mature discussion.
The whole making-an-apology-is-akin-to-pulling-teeth thing IMO applies not just to the person we've been discussing, but also to a chunk of the people who from my observations, wholeheartedly embrace that concept in general. I should probably pull out my stopwatch to see when the next sarcastic response remark will be flung into cyberspace...
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 01:08:41 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
drbeachboy
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« Reply #201 on: April 02, 2014, 01:10:08 PM »

Wow, this thread went to hell right quick.

Wrong. It went to hell a long time ago.

This is just a revival.  Wink
Any thread about Smile, Mike, Brian & VDP goes to hell as soon as the first person responds to it. And, if we go back to any other thread about Smile's demise, it is always the same old argument over & over. We've beaten this dead horse a 100 times over. Oy! Wink

At least 100 times, and not just on this board.  Some people love to revive and regurgitate it.

I see no problem discussing it. Remember, not everyone's been on the board here forever. However, once it descends into back and forth bickering with no new info or thoughtful speculation coming out, it's useless.
All of the posts are still here to read if one will use the Search function. Should you do that, you will see that all that has transpired here, transpired before. Using Yogi Berra's famous line "It's deja vu, all over again." Wink

But, that's exactly what I'm doing. Posting on old threads to add my own input. It's not like I'm starting new threads about topic that have already been discussed.
Yes, but we are still discussing the same stuff and arguing the same old arguments. All I can say is that from what I can glean from the people who post here that have really studied the matter, is that Brian and the lack of technology are the two areas to point the finger. Whether band members disagreed or didn't like some of the material, Brian was the boss. Even if they kicked and screamed through the entire process, if Brian had really wanted it completed and released,  they would have went work and completed it.

If you read my posts you'll see that I agree. Sorry for bringing up old topics but you don't have to get involved and for me this is the first time discussing the topic with people who actually know/care enough to discuss it intelligently.
Many of us have been dealing with the Smile saga for 40 plus years. I know that I started delving into it around the 1971-1972 time frame. So, I've been hearing these arguments for a very long time. The real issue is that the arguments run in circles. The same old information,  hearsay and legend just keeps getting tossed around without anything new being added to it. I think the legend and myth will always outweigh and win out over any actual truth that is stumbled upon. Forty plus years and myths live on. Smiley
Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #202 on: April 02, 2014, 01:13:07 PM »

Wow, this thread went to hell right quick.

Wrong. It went to hell a long time ago.

This is just a revival.  Wink
Any thread about Smile, Mike, Brian & VDP goes to hell as soon as the first person responds to it. And, if we go back to any other thread about Smile's demise, it is always the same old argument over & over. We've beaten this dead horse a 100 times over. Oy! Wink

At least 100 times, and not just on this board.  Some people love to revive and regurgitate it.

I see no problem discussing it. Remember, not everyone's been on the board here forever. However, once it descends into back and forth bickering with no new info or thoughtful speculation coming out, it's useless.
All of the posts are still here to read if one will use the Search function. Should you do that, you will see that all that has transpired here, transpired before. Using Yogi Berra's famous line "It's deja vu, all over again." Wink

But, that's exactly what I'm doing. Posting on old threads to add my own input. It's not like I'm starting new threads about topic that have already been discussed.
Yes, but we are still discussing the same stuff and arguing the same old arguments. All I can say is that from what I can glean from the people who post here that have really studied the matter, is that Brian and the lack of technology are the two areas to point the finger. Whether band members disagreed or didn't like some of the material, Brian was the boss. Even if they kicked and screamed through the entire process, if Brian had really wanted it completed and released,  they would have went work and completed it.

If you read my posts you'll see that I agree. Sorry for bringing up old topics but you don't have to get involved and for me this is the first time discussing the topic with people who actually know/care enough to discuss it intelligently.
Many of us have been dealing with the Smile saga for 40 plus years. I know that I started delving into it around the 1971-1972 time frame. So, I've been hearing these arguments for a very long time. The real issue is that the arguments run in circles. The same old information,  hearsay and legend just keeps getting tossed around without anything new being added to it. I think the legend and myth will always outweigh and win out over any actual truth that is stumbled upon. Forty plus years and myths live on. Smiley

Yeah, as I've said before it's fun until you get to the point where nobody has anything new to offer and it's just stupid back and forth. Look at this silly "Mike should apologize!"/"Nuh uh, stop hating!" bickering going on now...
Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
drbeachboy
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« Reply #203 on: April 02, 2014, 01:15:27 PM »

Wow, this thread went to hell right quick.

Wrong. It went to hell a long time ago.

This is just a revival.  Wink
Any thread about Smile, Mike, Brian & VDP goes to hell as soon as the first person responds to it. And, if we go back to any other thread about Smile's demise, it is always the same old argument over & over. We've beaten this dead horse a 100 times over. Oy! Wink

At least 100 times, and not just on this board.  Some people love to revive and regurgitate it.

I see no problem discussing it. Remember, not everyone's been on the board here forever. However, once it descends into back and forth bickering with no new info or thoughtful speculation coming out, it's useless.
All of the posts are still here to read if one will use the Search function. Should you do that, you will see that all that has transpired here, transpired before. Using Yogi Berra's famous line "It's deja vu, all over again." Wink

But, that's exactly what I'm doing. Posting on old threads to add my own input. It's not like I'm starting new threads about topic that have already been discussed.
Yes, but we are still discussing the same stuff and arguing the same old arguments. All I can say is that from what I can glean from the people who post here that have really studied the matter, is that Brian and the lack of technology are the two areas to point the finger. Whether band members disagreed or didn't like some of the material, Brian was the boss. Even if they kicked and screamed through the entire process, if Brian had really wanted it completed and released,  they would have went work and completed it.

If you read my posts you'll see that I agree. Sorry for bringing up old topics but you don't have to get involved and for me this is the first time discussing the topic with people who actually know/care enough to discuss it intelligently.

And as I've said before (and it's not difficult to get me to say it again), I am sorry if I ever come off as annoying or a broken record.
From my perspective, I find it annoying when people refuse to respond to a portion of a question, or when people resort to sarcasm instead of mature discussion.
The whole making-an-apology-is-akin-to-pulling-teeth thing IMO applies not just to the person we've been discussing, but also to a chunk of the people who from my observations, wholeheartedly embrace that concept in general. I should probably pull out my stopwatch to see when the next sarcastic response remark will be flung into cyberspace...
Some of us see no reason for an apology. Also, we just don't know what was said in private between the parties. For all we know everybody apologized to everyone years ago. Who knows? It ain't changing a damn thing one way or the other.
Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #204 on: April 02, 2014, 01:19:10 PM »

This is why I suggest CD write Mike a letter!!!!

Imagine if he actually clarified something!!!

This will be written off as sarcasm, but from where I stand, simply repeating things over and over and demanding people answer imaginary questions regarding imaginary scenarios is not exactly "mature discussion" either.

And Mujan: please stop characterizing anyone not playing along as accusing you guys of "hating"
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drbeachboy
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« Reply #205 on: April 02, 2014, 01:23:12 PM »

The one winner in all of this is Brian Douglas Wilson. After all of the years that he had to downplay and lie about Smile, he has been able to come to terms with it, release it in two different versions and finally take pride and feel the joy of his "Teenage Symphony To God". So, in the end, all the right things happened, just 37 years after the fact. Smiley
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 01:24:55 PM by drbeachboy » Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #206 on: April 02, 2014, 01:25:51 PM »

This is why I suggest CD write Mike a letter!!!!

Imagine if he actually clarified something!!!

This will be written off as sarcasm, but from where I stand, simply repeating things over and over and demanding people answer imaginary questions regarding imaginary scenarios is not exactly "mature discussion" either.

And Mujan: please stop characterizing anyone not playing along as accusing you guys of "hating"

1. If you *actually* think The Lovester would care about responding to such a letter, that's just crazy talk IMO.

2. I have less than zero desire to personally get involved with somebody's personal life with them. That's icky speak.  
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #207 on: April 02, 2014, 01:28:12 PM »

The one winner in all of this is Brian Douglas Wilson. After all of the years that he had to downplay and lie about Smile, he has been able to come to terms with it, release it in two different versions and finally take pride and feel the joy of his "Teenage Symphony To God". So, in the end, all the right things happened, just 37 years after the fact. Smiley

And in the meantime we had to suffer through Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, Holland, Love You, Light Album, POB!!!!!

What an injustice!!!! MIKE, APOLOGIZE!!!!!
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Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again
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« Reply #208 on: April 02, 2014, 01:30:48 PM »

This is why I suggest CD write Mike a letter!!!!

Imagine if he actually clarified something!!!

This will be written off as sarcasm, but from where I stand, simply repeating things over and over and demanding people answer imaginary questions regarding imaginary scenarios is not exactly "mature discussion" either.

And Mujan: please stop characterizing anyone not playing along as accusing you guys of "hating"


1. If you *actually* think The Lovester would care about responding to such a letter, that's just crazy talk IMO.

2. I have less than zero desire to personally get involved with somebody's personal life with them. That's icky speak.  

Crazy talk is endlessly discussing an imaginary apology. Suggesting you ask the man for one himself is merely venturing into the realm of reality.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #209 on: April 02, 2014, 01:39:21 PM »

This is why I suggest CD write Mike a letter!!!!

Imagine if he actually clarified something!!!

This will be written off as sarcasm, but from where I stand, simply repeating things over and over and demanding people answer imaginary questions regarding imaginary scenarios is not exactly "mature discussion" either.

And Mujan: please stop characterizing anyone not playing along as accusing you guys of "hating"


1. If you *actually* think The Lovester would care about responding to such a letter, that's just crazy talk IMO.

2. I have less than zero desire to personally get involved with somebody's personal life with them. That's icky speak.  

Crazy talk is endlessly discussing an imaginary apology. Suggesting you ask the man for one himself is merely venturing into the realm of reality.

The endless thing is simply a reaction to the endless parade of the exact opposite, emotional stonewalling.
Sorry to be a pain.
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #210 on: April 02, 2014, 01:40:30 PM »

This is why I suggest CD write Mike a letter!!!!

Imagine if he actually clarified something!!!

This will be written off as sarcasm, but from where I stand, simply repeating things over and over and demanding people answer imaginary questions regarding imaginary scenarios is not exactly "mature discussion" either.

And Mujan: please stop characterizing anyone not playing along as accusing you guys of "hating"

Pinder, the fact is you've jumped all over me accusing me of hating Mike before for little to no reason other than the fact I have not blindly praised him to the extent that you have. You can deny it all you like now, but it's true. I really must request (yet again) that you read thru some of your earlier replies to me and see how you come across at times. But seeing as you probably won't...sure, I'm just crazy and have it in for you for no reason whatsoever. Sure, whatever.
Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
drbeachboy
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« Reply #211 on: April 02, 2014, 01:58:35 PM »

The one winner in all of this is Brian Douglas Wilson. After all of the years that he had to downplay and lie about Smile, he has been able to come to terms with it, release it in two different versions and finally take pride and feel the joy of his "Teenage Symphony To God". So, in the end, all the right things happened, just 37 years after the fact. Smiley

And in the meantime we had to suffer through Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, 20/20, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Carl & The Passions, Holland, Love You, Light Album, POB!!!!!

What an injustice!!!! MIKE, APOLOGIZE!!!!!
I know, ain't it a bitch? Wink
Logged

The Brianista Prayer

Oh Brian
Thou Art In Hawthorne,
Harmonied Be Thy name
Your Kingdom Come,
Your Steak Well Done,
On Stage As It Is In Studio,
Give Us This Day, Our Shortenin' Bread
And Forgive Us Our Bootlegs,
As We Also Have Forgiven Our Wife And Managers,
And Lead Us Not Into Kokomo,
But Deliver Us From Mike Love.
Amen.  ---hypehat
Dancing Bear
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« Reply #212 on: April 02, 2014, 02:32:08 PM »

So we're endlessly debating if it's right or wrong to demand an apology from Mike for something he allegedly did to Brian 50 years ago...

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« Reply #213 on: April 02, 2014, 02:46:01 PM »

Maybe Dr. Phil should do a show about "Smile." Then all involved can assemble and Dr. Phil can browbeat them into telling the truth and the right person (cough) can say he's sorry, and they can all break down in tears and hug it out.
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #214 on: April 02, 2014, 03:10:27 PM »

When do tickets go on sale for that? LOL
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #215 on: April 02, 2014, 03:12:22 PM »

When do tickets go on sale for that? LOL

with OSD as guest host  Evil
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #216 on: April 02, 2014, 03:13:41 PM »

OSD needs to fight Mike on Jerry Springer. Wink
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #217 on: April 02, 2014, 03:14:55 PM »

OSD needs to fight Mike on Jerry Springer. Wink

That wouldn't be fair because Mike would have the "youth" advantage
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #218 on: April 02, 2014, 03:16:37 PM »

Don't underestimate OSD's hoveround.
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #219 on: April 02, 2014, 03:17:36 PM »

OSD needs to fight Mike on Jerry Springer. Wink

That wouldn't be fair because Mike would have the "youth" advantage

Mike and Brian should have been guests on Wally George's Hot Seat in a round table debate.

Landy could have been a plant in the audience holding up a pro-Brian sign (and he'd have fit right in with the mullet, nobody would ever suspect)... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #220 on: April 02, 2014, 03:18:53 PM »

OSD needs to fight Mike on Jerry Springer. Wink

That wouldn't be fair because Mike would have the "youth" advantage

Mike and Brian should have been guests on Wally George's Hot Seat in a round table debate.

Landy could have been a plant in the audience holding up a pro-Brian sign (he'd fit right in with the mullet, nobody would ever suspect)...


Just imagine the threads around here if THAT had happened ;P

Would have been legendary television though
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SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #221 on: April 02, 2014, 03:36:12 PM »

The BBs need a reality show like "big brother"
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And production aside, Id so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #222 on: April 02, 2014, 06:58:35 PM »

And as I've said before (and it's not difficult to get me to say it again), I am sorry if I ever come off as annoying or a broken record.
From my perspective, I find it annoying when people refuse to respond to a portion of a question, or when people resort to sarcasm instead of mature discussion.
The whole making-an-apology-is-akin-to-pulling-teeth thing IMO applies not just to the person we've been discussing, but also to a chunk of the people who from my observations, wholeheartedly embrace that concept in general. I should probably pull out my stopwatch to see when the next sarcastic response remark will be flung into cyberspace...

What's funny is I answered your question and you and a couple of others apparently don't consider my feelings valid and got snarky and insulting. Yet somehow you continue to bang on about imaginary feelings and imaginary apologies as if you are some sort of imaginary victim.

Still waiting for my apology for your intentional and unintentional hurting of my feelings.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #223 on: April 02, 2014, 07:12:54 PM »

And as I've said before (and it's not difficult to get me to say it again), I am sorry if I ever come off as annoying or a broken record.
From my perspective, I find it annoying when people refuse to respond to a portion of a question, or when people resort to sarcasm instead of mature discussion.
The whole making-an-apology-is-akin-to-pulling-teeth thing IMO applies not just to the person we've been discussing, but also to a chunk of the people who from my observations, wholeheartedly embrace that concept in general. I should probably pull out my stopwatch to see when the next sarcastic response remark will be flung into cyberspace...

What's funny is I answered your question and you and a couple of others apparently don't consider my feelings valid and got snarky and insulting. Yet somehow you continue to bang on about imaginary feelings and imaginary apologies as if you are some sort of imaginary victim.

Still waiting for my apology for your intentional and unintentional hurting of my feelings.

Cam - if you honestly have hurt feelings (and aren't just trying to make light of the concept), then I will trade you a sincere apology for your answer to another couple of questions from earlier in the thread that you did NOT actually directly answer:

If Brian told you personally that, irregardless of drugs, that he felt certain feelings about certain people's actions at the time, you'd still find a way to say that his feelings were 100% "not valid" and were absolutely imaginary, even though he felt them - right?

Serious question.  

Second serious question: would you tell that to his face?
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #224 on: April 02, 2014, 07:19:57 PM »

And as I've said before (and it's not difficult to get me to say it again), I am sorry if I ever come off as annoying or a broken record.
From my perspective, I find it annoying when people refuse to respond to a portion of a question, or when people resort to sarcasm instead of mature discussion.
The whole making-an-apology-is-akin-to-pulling-teeth thing IMO applies not just to the person we've been discussing, but also to a chunk of the people who from my observations, wholeheartedly embrace that concept in general. I should probably pull out my stopwatch to see when the next sarcastic response remark will be flung into cyberspace...

What's funny is I answered your question and you and a couple of others apparently don't consider my feelings valid and got snarky and insulting. Yet somehow you continue to bang on about imaginary feelings and imaginary apologies as if you are some sort of imaginary victim.

Still waiting for my apology for your intentional and unintentional hurting of my feelings.

Cam - if you honestly have hurt feelings (and aren't just trying to make light of the concept), then I will trade you a sincere apology for your answer to another couple of questions from earlier in the thread that you did NOT actually directly answer:

If Brian told you personally that, irregardless of drugs, that he felt certain feelings about certain people's actions at the time, you'd still find a way to say that his feelings were 100% "not valid" and were absolutely imaginary, even though he felt them - right?

Serious question.  

Second serious question: would you tell that to his face?


An apology on condition?

I don't dance for my apologies no matter how low the expressed opinion of my character. No thanks. That hurt my feelings too.
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"Bring me the head of Carmen Sandiego" Lynne "The Chief" Thigpen
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