Disappointment with Surf's Up

[drbeachboy]

Then a heretic, I am. Thankfully, I don't have to go through an Inquisition. I've already been called a heathen, so why not a heretic, as well.

[JohnMill]

Then a heretic, I am. Thankfully, I don't have to go through an Inquisition. I've already been called a heathen, so why not a heretic, as well.

It's okay, the worst that can happen to you is we make you jump in the pool.  You can also drink as much fresh water as you want before you take the plunge. 

I'm going to be in NY this weekend.  Have New Yorkers gotten the vote yet?

[John Stivaktas]

We've been so conditioned to listening to Surf's Up (Demo, 71, BWPS) over the years that maybe it's best we take a step back before assessing this new mix. I'm betting that once the novelty wears off, this new mix will be better appreciated.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

We've been so conditioned to listening to Surf's Up (Demo, 71, BWPS) over the years that maybe it's best we take a step back before assessing this new mix. I'm betting that once the novelty wears off, this new mix will be better appreciated.

For Sure, the entire box for that matter, remember when BWPS came out? and people argued about what belonged? Well, likewise

[Paulos]

I appear to be in the minority but I absolutely love the new mix, each to their own though.

[sidewinder572]

The words "disappointed" and "Surf's Up" should at no time ever be used in the same sentence.

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

I don't like the sped up Mickey Mouse scat vocals on Dada.

I don't like Barnyard or Great Shape. I don't think the Harv fly in can be done in a convincing manner.

The added vocals to Look add nothing. I really wish they had let it be.

I guess that's my whole beef. The fly-ins. They don't mesh and I find them distracting. In several cases I find them all together unecessary. Fire and Look played fine without them. The general public could have handled an instrumental track or two.

Ever since the GV box we've been waiting for those remaining tracks with high quality sound, and now we get them, except they have been tweaked. Now we have Smile on vinyl...but just of the songs that are tweaked. I understand the intent, just with I could have the raw tracks in mono as well.

I know...."roll my own" from the sessions. But in some cases I'm not sure it's going to be that easy.

Grateful for the box. Don't want to be a wet blanket.

[monicker]

I don't like Barnyard or Great Shape. I don't think the Harv fly in can be done in a convincing manner.

The added vocals to Look add nothing. I really wish they had let it be.

I guess that's my whole beef. The fly-ins. They don't mesh and I find them distracting. In several cases I find them all together unecessary. Fire and Look played fine without them. The general public could have handled an instrumental track or two.

Ever since the GV box we've been waiting for those remaining tracks with high quality sound, and now we get them, except they have been tweaked. Now we have Smile on vinyl...but just of the songs that are tweaked. I understand the intent, just with I could have the raw tracks in mono as well.

I know...."roll my own" from the sessions. But in some cases I'm not sure it's going to be that easy.

Grateful for the box. Don't want to be a wet blanket.

Agree 100%. Will add that with IIGS and Barnyard, i don't think it's a matter of Linett and Boyd doing poor work--i think that it simply cannot be done in a way that sounds good at all. I don't think anyone can make this sound good. It is inherently a bad idea and not conducive to sounding good for its intended purpose. For example, in Great Shape, Brian just barely even utters the words "of the agriculture/of the upper country/of the open country." That trailing off sounds really, really bad and there's nothing that can be done about it. That demo recording is simply not usable. Poor recording, poor performance, different tempo, different feel, piano locked into the mono recording. So why even use it then? It's just a disaster.

Smile is largely instrumental due to the nature of the project being unfinished. I don't know what the point is in trying to mask that fact, trying to dupe the general public. And as was stated above, it was the one and only opportunity to ever get this stuff in high quality on an official release...but some of the songs are f***ed with. That's a monumental blunder in my book. Really, if you step back and put the excitement of this release aside, it is clear that there were some very unprofessional decisions that were made. 

[Wirestone]

Smile is largely instrumental due to the nature of the project being unfinished. I don't know what the point is in trying to mask that fact, trying to dupe the general public.

Because there has already been a finished version released, an attempt was made to use as many bits as possible to offer as many vocals as possible. That's the point.

And as was stated above, it was the one and only opportunity to ever get this stuff in high quality on an official release...but some of the songs are f*cked with. That's a monumental blunder in my book. Really, if you step back and put the excitement of this release aside, it is clear that there were some very unprofessional decisions that were made. 

Unprofessional? Hardly. Decisions that we may not agree with, perhaps. But the first disc was always going to be an attempt to present as close to a finished album as possible, using material that was as contemporaneous as possible. That's simply a sensible commercial proposition.

[lance]

I think it's the best of it's sort I've heard. Seems a bit more natural than, say, Purple Chick. Tag in mono doesn't move me as much, strangely. It's the one moment I think to myself, 'I wish this part was in stereo' but that's my only quibble.

[Aegir]

I've never heard the JMZ Smile mix that everyone seems to be raving about, but I think it's really stupid that people keep on comparing songs to the JMZ version or the Purple Chick version. Just because that's what they're used to.

I get it, I do. You listen to a certain version of a song, no matter how unofficial, and it gets in your head that that's how the song goes. A lot of my friends are in bands and many of them have no studio recordings and I see them live fairly often and I have "definitive" versions of their songs in my head made up from sections of previous performances pieced together in my mind, and every time I see the song live it doesn't live up to the version in my head. But the version in my head doesn't really exist, and it's stupid to expect it.

and Purple Chick's version of Surf's Up is just the version in her (his?) head, but she was able to use technology to make other people be able to hear it too (by the way, you would think the people who make these fanmixes would be active in the online community a bit more). so then the idealized version in her head becomes the definitive version to a lot of people, who then, when they hear the officially-released versions, there's that discrepancy in their mind.

I wrote most of this like three hours ago and then I stepped away for awhile so I can't remember what my final concluding point was gonna be.

[BiNNS]

I'm a little confused. So does the tag on Surf's Up follow the same formula as the '71 version or does it go straight into "a children's song" just like on BWPS? I'm a much bigger fan of the former.

[Mr. Cohen]

Smile is largely instrumental due to the nature of the project being unfinished.

True, but I've often wondered what would be the problem with presenting Smile '67 as something like:

Our Prayer/Gee
Heroes and Villains
My Only Sunshine
Cabin Essence
Vegetables
Wonderful
Mrs. O'Leary's Cow
Surf's Up
Wind Chimes
Good Vibrations
You're Welcome

Maybe throw in parts of "Cool, Cool Water" or "Diamond Head" or whatever if you're feeling crazy and need some water with your Smile. You could use a couple of the weird humor attempts as skits to fill out the running time, maybe placing them with some of the unused instrumentals. Add in the rest of the songs as bonuses. If you ask me, that's better than the trying to mimic BWPS, which took an everything and the kitchen sink approach that really highlights the unfinished quality of some of the other songs.

[drbeachboy]

Yeesh.  Can't please 'em all, I guess.  Why am I so not surprised......

Seriously, did you read the header of this topic? You shouldn't be surprised. Some things work very nice to me and some things don't. No Big deal. And guess what, none of the producers are going change anything about the release. So, if you love everything, you are in luck. I never criticized the sound, just the mixes. Over the years, I've heard all these tracks presented all different kind of ways. Some worked, some did not. I don't hate any of it, I'm just not thrilled with a couple things, is all.

[harveyw]

Just a thought: does anyone think Brian might have let Carl take the lead vocal on "Surf's Up" in 67? Given that we don't have a recording of the fully-arranged version with a Brian lead (which he could have easily done, given that he was in the studio when it was being recorded), and that Brian also gave Carl the lead vocal on the centrepiece of Pet Sounds.
It's pretty unlikely I guess, but any thoughts?

[runnersdialzero]

Just a thought: does anyone think Brian might have let Carl take the lead vocal on "Surf's Up" in 67? Given that we don't have a recording of the fully-arranged version with a Brian lead (which he could have easily done, given that he was in the studio when it was being recorded), and that Brian also gave Carl the lead vocal on the centrepiece of Pet Sounds.
It's pretty unlikely I guess, but any thoughts?

I've always wondered this, really. Same goes for "Barnyard", "I'm In Great Shape", "Child Is The Father Of The Man", etc. - who the f*** were actually meant to sing these songs? Two takes of "Wonderful" with two different vocalists only makes one wonder even more.

Also, on that note, I've always wondered if part of Mike's resentment over the project draws from the fact that he has lead vocals on short sections of two whole songs. Damn.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Just a thought: does anyone think Brian might have let Carl take the lead vocal on "Surf's Up" in 67? Given that we don't have a recording of the fully-arranged version with a Brian lead (which he could have easily done, given that he was in the studio when it was being recorded), and that Brian also gave Carl the lead vocal on the centrepiece of Pet Sounds.
It's pretty unlikely I guess, but any thoughts?

I've always wondered this, really. Same goes for "Barnyard", "I'm In Great Shape", "Child Is The Father Of The Man", etc. - who the f*ck were actually meant to sing these songs? Two takes of "Wonderful" with two different vocalists only makes one wonder even more.

Also, on that note, I've always wondered if part of Mike's resentment over the project draws from the fact that he has lead vocals on short sections of two whole songs. Damn.

Yeah - I don't think Brian would be singing every lead on the album save You Are My Sunshine and Wind Chimes. That being said, he certainly sang Surf's Up a lot. It seemed to be particularly tailored to him performing it. But who knows?

I think that Mike, as the lead singer who could only sing onstage for the most part, probably would have gotten at least Barnyard and maybe Child. I think it's interesting that in defending Mike, some people say, "well, he DID sing those lyrics" but it is worth noting that he actually doesn't sing a single lead.

[JeremyM]

What is it that you don't like about the ending? It sounds almost the same as the '71 ending, which I love. I like they "ahhs" before "A children's song..." And the addition of Carl's vocal, however unnecessary, doesn't sound too bad. I love Surf's Up so much. Any version of it always blows my mind.

First time I heard the tag I thought it was different to the '71, but you're right.  I can honestly say I was not disappointed with ANYTHING on the box.  The more I listen to the mixes, the more I like them.

[JMZ]

I think it's really stupid that people keep on comparing songs to the JMZ version or the Purple Chick version. Just because that's what they're used to.

This is as stupid as getting hung on official stuff by any means, just because it's official, comes from Mark Linett or whatever (this is not an attack, I'm a big admirer of M. Linett and have a deep respect for him).

What happens from what I read here and there is that some people seem to overlook fan mixes, just because "you know, it's not the real thing, it can't be as good, this is all pitch-shifting and such". And sometimes without even hearing the mixes, just like you said:

I've never heard the JMZ Smile mix

But why some people couldn't have the right to prefer a fan mix over the official stuff ? It's all a question of personnal taste and people have the right express their preference. You can't blame them for that or obligate them not to listen to fan mixes.

SMiLE is an exception in that: it's -to my knownledge- the only musical phenomenon that got so much to do with its public over the years.

And remember Mister Linett's "roll your own" line. 

[JMZ]

Given that we don't have a recording of the fully-arranged version with a Brian lead (which he could have easily done, given that he was in the studio when it was being recorded)

Yes, I agree, but there's one interesting thing with what people call the "Piano Demo" (track 9 of CD2 from the TSS 2CDs version): to me it's not really what we could call a demo or even a guide vocal track:

1) Brian's voice is doubled, he recorded his voice twice (and it's not ADT)
2) Brian sings really well on it, it's not the "humble Harv" tape type of singing see what I mean ?
3) Everything is well recorded, the piano sounds very well, there's reverb.


So what I mean is: at this point (12/15/66) maybe Brian planned to release it as is, or with further vocals or instrumental overdubs, but this could've been the core track of Surf's Up, implying that he would've sing the lead.

[harveyw]

Given that we don't have a recording of the fully-arranged version with a Brian lead (which he could have easily done, given that he was in the studio when it was being recorded)

Yes, I agree, but there's one interesting thing with what people call the "Piano Demo" (track 9 of CD2 from the TSS 2CDs version): to me it's not really what we could call a demo or even a guide vocal track:
1) Brian's voice is doubled, he recorded his voice twice (and it's not ADT)
2) Brian sings really well on it, it's not the "humble Harv" tape type of singing see what I mean ?
3) Everything is well recorded, the piano sounds very well, there's reverb.
So what I mean is: at this point (12/15/66) maybe Brian planned to release it as is, or with further vocals or instrumental overdubs, but this could've been the core track of Surf's Up, implying that he would've sing the lead.

It's certainly odd that the version referred to in the box set as the "Piano demo" was recorded over a month after the fully-arranged "first movement" session. Maybe at that time Brian was envisaging the 2nd movement being a solo take, and he needed a "run up" to tackle the performance. While maybe Carl would have handled the first movement. Or maybe Brian just enjoyed playing the song? If you'd written such a breathtaking piece of music, you'd want to play it as often as possible, wouldn't you? Maybe that explains the Wild Honey-era recording. We'll never know. (Thinks: wonder if there's a "Friends"-era version?)
Besides, on reflection, Carl already had the lead on two of the pivotal recordings on Smile: Good Vibes and (can we assume?) Cabin Essence.

[Aegir]

Hey JMZ, I guess it could come off as insulting for me to say it's stupid for someone to like your mix over Mark's. That's not what I really meant to say. I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly. If you read the rest of my earlier post I explained myself a little better.

[JMZ]

I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly.

I still don't understand why you tell that. It's a situation you can't avoid, SMiLE is somewhat unique for that. Some fans can do their own mix and some other fans can express their likes and dislikes. You know, it's a democratic thing and personnaly I think it's great.

And as Mark Linett humbly said himself: the official CD1 of TSS is "just" his take on SMiLE. And fans have the right to like it or not, or to prefer it over Purple Chick's mix or mine, or to compare, etc.

Being silly is to say: "You must love Mark Linett version above any other" or "Mark Linett's version is inevitably better, because it's the official version". No: the only thing that is objectively better is sound quality (for obvious reasons). The rest belongs to each one's personnal taste.

[desmondo]

Smile is largely instrumental due to the nature of the project being unfinished. I don't know what the point is in trying to mask that fact, trying to dupe the general public.

Because there has already been a finished version released, an attempt was made to use as many bits as possible to offer as many vocals as possible. That's the point.

And as was stated above, it was the one and only opportunity to ever get this stuff in high quality on an official release...but some of the songs are f*cked with. That's a monumental blunder in my book. Really, if you step back and put the excitement of this release aside, it is clear that there were some very unprofessional decisions that were made. 

Unprofessional? Hardly. Decisions that we may not agree with, perhaps. But the first disc was always going to be an attempt to present as close to a finished album as possible, using material that was as contemporaneous as possible. That's simply a sensible commercial proposition.

Well said my man

[desmondo]

I think someone disliking Mark's mix because it's not pieced together like their favorite fanmix is a little silly.

I still don't understand why you tell that. It's a situation you can't avoid, SMiLE is somewhat unique for that. Some fans can do their own mix and some other fans can express their likes and dislikes. You know, it's a democratic thing and personnaly I think it's great.

And as Mark Linett humbly said himself: the official CD1 of TSS is "just" his take on SMiLE. And fans have the right to like it or not, or to prefer it over Purple Chick's mix or mine, or to compare, etc.

Being silly is to say: "You must love Mark Linett version above any other" or "Mark Linett's version is inevitably better, because it's the official version". No: the only thing that is objectively better is sound quality (for obvious reasons). The rest belongs to each one's personnal taste.

Not sure you can say its ML's version - it is the BW/BBs version - thinking about it where did he say it was just his take?