gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
638968 Posts in 25537 Topics by 3626 Members - Latest Member: Julia October 19, 2018, 05:19:13 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Down Print
Author Topic: TSS - All things I Love to Say Dada  (Read 22436 times)
CarlTheVoice
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 355



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2011, 06:12:03 AM »

My post isn't about Dada but about CCW. In particular "Cool, Cool Water (Version 2). This to me is a great track and there's a series of chords at about 1:04 to 1:13 - I would have loved them to develop a song around these chords. Unless they did and I just can't pick it up? I like CCW as it is but this track gives a little bit extra! I just keep picking chords, vocals and parts of songs that I think they should have used for other albums and it's driving me crazy!
Logged
Roger Ryan
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1528


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 10:10:22 AM »

Perhaps this is already (SMiLE-fanatic) common knowledge, but I was surprised to see in the sessionography that the "Water Chant" vocals were from October 1967. The recording always sounded like something recorded at Wally Heider's studio (which is was, apparently), so this makes sense. However, it has often been said that the chant was a leftover from the SMiLE sessions that the Beach Boys resurrected for "Cool, Cool Water". Now I am under the impression that the chant was always associated with "Cool, Cool Water" (perhaps the SUNFLOWER version sequencing is indeed an accurate representation of how the song might have sounded in late '67). I have no problem with it being used on BWPS and on the new set as an intro to "Dada", but this leaves us with "Fire" only as the one identifiable "element" in the supposed track "The Elements".
Logged
Chris Brown
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2005


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2011, 07:16:05 PM »

Perhaps this is already (SMiLE-fanatic) common knowledge, but I was surprised to see in the sessionography that the "Water Chant" vocals were from October 1967. The recording always sounded like something recorded at Wally Heider's studio (which is was, apparently), so this makes sense. However, it has often been said that the chant was a leftover from the SMiLE sessions that the Beach Boys resurrected for "Cool, Cool Water". Now I am under the impression that the chant was always associated with "Cool, Cool Water" (perhaps the SUNFLOWER version sequencing is indeed an accurate representation of how the song might have sounded in late '67). I have no problem with it being used on BWPS and on the new set as an intro to "Dada", but this leaves us with "Fire" only as the one identifiable "element" in the supposed track "The Elements".

I didn't know this until recently either - it definitely put a kink into my theory of "Water Chant" as the Water element. 
Logged
Tune X
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 75


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 08:41:57 PM »

With no vocals for the early DaDa/CCW recordings from Dec. 22 '66 you can't definitively place them as the "Water Element," although that may have been the case at that point. Then it gets considered for H&V the following month as "All Day." Pretty complex history...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 08:53:32 PM by Tune X » Logged
runnersdialzero
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5143


I WILL NEVER GO TO SCHOOL


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 09:37:02 PM »

Just because it was recorded after the supposed "strict" end of the Smile sessions doesn't mean it wasn't written and intended for Smile. It's a fucking "water chant" and there was an elements suite in the works for Smile. Coincidence? Doubtful.
Logged

Tell me it's okay.
Tell me you still love me.
People make mistakes.
People make mistakes.
Roger Ryan
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1528


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2011, 07:08:35 AM »

All the same, the boys are not singing "water, water, water" even if the lyric sheet says so; they're singing "wa-doo, wa-doo, wa-doo". However, the fact that this recording was tracked so close in time to the "Cool, Cool Water" vocal sessions does suggest that it was associated with that song.

There's no doubt that "Love To Say Dada" morphed into "Cool, Cool Water", but I'm starting to think that when Brian decided to junk "Fire", he stopped work on "The Elements" altogether and the remaining three segments were never recorded.
Logged
The Demon
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »

I agree with runners.  "Da Da" occupies a weird space in the Smile story.  The announcement had come out, but I don't think Brian let go quite that easily, and the fact that you can trace earlier incarnations of the song to the "official" Smile period says something (not to mention the water chant connection).

What is up with Brian's voice in the May session?  That is him, right?  During the first day he sounds like he's making fun of himself, or ridiculing the idea of still recording this scrapped album, even though the music being played is beautiful.  It strikes me as the same passive-aggressive attitude I hear in Smiley Smile.
Logged
magical
Smiley Smile Newbie

Offline Offline

Posts: 3


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2011, 10:27:42 AM »

Missing vocals in Smile Sessions 5 CD box set. Complete list

After thoroughly been listening to the CDs and studying the detailed Sessionography in the 60 pages book, I have found that many vocals listed in the Sessionography can not be heard on the CDs.

CD 2
Missing vocals on CD:
4. Heroes And Villains: Barnyard (Master Take) (Wordless vocals: Brian (multi-tracked))
33. Heroes And Villains: Children Were Raised (Remake) (1:06)
All other vocals listed for CD 2 in the Sessionography can be heard on the CD. (And they are many!)
Plus…
Including vocals not mentioned in Sessionography:
9. Heroes And Villains: Mission Pak
18. Heroes And Villains: Verse Edit Experiment

CD 3
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Do You Like Worms: Part 1
2. Do You Like Worms: Part 2 (Bicycle Rider)
3. Do You Like Worms: Part 3
4. Do You Like Worms: Part 4 (Bicycle Rider)
6. My Only Sunshine: Parts 1 & 2 (11/14/66)
8. Cabin Essence: Verse
9. Cabin Essence: Chorus
10. Cabin Essence: Tag
11. Wonderful (Version 1) (8/25/66)
17. Child Is Father Of The Man (Version 2) (10/11/66)
18. Surf’s Up: 1st Movement (11/4/66)
19. Surf’s Up: Talking Horns (11/7/66)
22. Vegetables: Verse (Master Take Track) (4/4 – 4/11/67) (Missing vocal: Lead vocal: Al)

CD 4
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Vegetables: Fade (4/12/67)
5. Wind Chimes (Version 2)
6. Wind Chimes (Version 2 Tag)
11. Love To Say Dada: Part 2 (5/17/67)
12. Love To Say Dada: Part 2 (Master Take) (5/17/67)

CD 5
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Good Vibrations: Gold Star 2/18/66 (The “Pet Sounds” Session)
20. Good Vibrations: Western 9/1/66 (New Bridge)
Including vocals not mentioned in Sessionography:
21. (track not mentioned in Sessionography) Good Vibrations: Session Masters
23. (wrongly numbered 22 in Sessionography) Good Good Good Vibrations (First Version With Overdubs) 3/66 
24. (wrongly numbered 23 in Sessionography) Good Vibrations: Alternate Edit 8/24/66 

Is the Sessionography incorrect? Or…

Have they mistakenly chosen wrong tracks for the box set? (They were probably in a hurry before the release. I doubt that!)

Or, have I got defect CDs? (I doubt that! All CDs are the same. It's digital you know Or?)

Please listen carefully to your CDs and let me know if you really can hear all the vocals listed in the Sessionography. Or are your CDs identical with mine?

If not, my box set must be a collector’s item! (I doubt that!)

I just think the Sessionogrphy is incorrect. Or....
Logged
Roger Ryan
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1528


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2011, 11:07:29 AM »

magical - this list is in the wrong thread; a better location would be the "What ISN'T On TSS" thread in "General Discussions".

Anyway, I'm not sure what you mean by "missing vocals"?

The sessionography documents the known vocal sessions for each of the tracks, but that doesn't mean that the vocals will be heard on the "session" CDs themselves. Using the CD track numbers is a convenient way to identify each of the sessions and give the background info on them, but the CD tracks themselves only highlight certain portions of those sessions.

In some cases, vocal session tapes are missing from the archives so some of the vocals are simply lost.

However, many of the "missing vocals" you mention can be found elsewhere on the discs. Brian's "Barnyard" vocals (wordless), for example, are heard on the assembled track on CD 1 (as are pretty much all of the vocal tracks recorded during these sessions). Some of the backing vocals have been isolated and edited together as "Background Vocals Montage" on CD 1.

You are correct that the "Good Vibrations: Session Masters" track is not annotated in the sessionography which results in screwed-up numbering for the subsequent tracks.

Ultimately, all of the vocals tracks recorded for SMiLE (plus others) are represented in some way on the set.
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 4091


View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2011, 04:25:28 PM »

Yes, the "Good Vibrations Session Masters" was a last minute addition, snuck in after the deadline for the Sessionography (and the rest of the book) to go to the printers.  But, isn't it better to live with a somewhat screwed-up sessionography than to not have that track?  Smiley

Otherwise, as Roger alludes to, the purpose of the Sessionography was to provide, in the order in which they appear on the discs, all sessions associated with the various titles, grouped together under those titles, starting with Disc Two ('cause that's when the appearance of the "sessions" begins, as opposed to the "album" track lineup & bonus tracks appearing on Disc One...certain bonus tracks not associated with "sessions", for instance "Teeter Totter Love", had to be squeezed in somewhat unobrusively elsewhere).

Bottom line:  there was no easy or clean way to do this (shouldn't surprise anyone, after all this is SMiLE we're talking about Wink), so we did the best we could.  Smiley

Hopefully there will be an opportunity in the near future to clarify and correct a few miscellaneous things in the Sessionography...stay tuned.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 04:26:32 PM by c-man » Logged
Jay
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5342



View Profile
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2011, 09:40:48 PM »

Who was doing the take calling in the control booth for the Dada session on the box set? Every time I hear that exaggerated overly happy voice I just want to throw something.  Angry  LOL
Logged

A son of anarchy surrounded by the hierarchy.
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 4091


View Profile WWW
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2011, 12:50:47 PM »

Who was doing the take calling in the control booth for the Dada session on the box set? Every time I hear that exaggerated overly happy voice I just want to throw something.  Angry  LOL

That's the engineer, James Hilton.
Logged
Mahalo
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1159

..Stand back, Speak normally


View Profile WWW
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2011, 08:33:56 AM »

After hearing BWPS I thought it would be really cool to finish the album with Prayer but inverted and backwards. I like how it attaches so nicely to Da Da, but it would truly be coming full circle...

With this mix of ILTSDD I am really happy with thow the Water chant flows into the beginning of the song as opposed to versions I heard before the Box.
Logged

buddhahat
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2631


Hi, my name's Doug. Would you like to dance?


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2011, 05:50:37 AM »

My post isn't about Dada but about CCW. In particular "Cool, Cool Water (Version 2). This to me is a great track and there's a series of chords at about 1:04 to 1:13 - I would have loved them to develop a song around these chords. Unless they did and I just can't pick it up? I like CCW as it is but this track gives a little bit extra! I just keep picking chords, vocals and parts of songs that I think they should have used for other albums and it's driving me crazy!

Not sure if anyone's answered your question yet but those chords between 1.04 - 1.13 are the same as the accapella section in the Sunflower final version between about 3.47 - 3.56 (although my times come from a needledrop so may not be exactly the same as the cd). Try singing this Sunflower accapella vocal part over the piano chords in question and it matches perfectly. Notice it also moves into the "in an ocean or in a glass' chords after that section too, just like on Sunflower. I think had they completed Cool Cool in 67 it may not have been too different from the Sunflower version what with this section, and the water chant and all. Maybe the major difference is that Child riff.
Logged

Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes ......
Bubba Ho-Tep
Guest
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2011, 08:00:59 PM »

That first version on the box...disc 4 track 8...the percussion sounds like scissors. is it a clue to the songs meaning?
Logged
Chocolate Shake Man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2794


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2011, 09:26:05 PM »

Who was doing the take calling in the control booth for the Dada session on the box set? Every time I hear that exaggerated overly happy voice I just want to throw something.  Angry  LOL

Sounds to me like he's parodying radio DJs.
Logged
buddhahat
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2631


Hi, my name's Doug. Would you like to dance?


View Profile
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2011, 07:11:39 AM »

That first version on the box...disc 4 track 8...the percussion sounds like scissors. is it a clue to the songs meaning?

Great. Now I feel like I'm having my tone nails cut every time I listen to that version. Keep your wacko theories to yourself Bubba-Ho tep!
Logged

Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes, Bedroom Tapes ......
Caroline, Now
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2011, 05:59:20 PM »

I personally prefer  the GV box set version, I felt the TSS one was much too short. Also, I didn't feel the flown in 'jazz' vocals added anything to the song.  Just my opinion.
Logged

Mark-pull the first part of the song off comp real P0216643 and back to P0189510 for the chorus. Wait, sorry, it's on the second half of the 'our prayer' reel, P026636, 22 minutes in.  Tracks 2,4 and 5, see?  Wow, this is tiring work...
-Alan Boyd, 2011
Bicyclerider
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2001


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2011, 09:01:12 PM »

That first version on the box...disc 4 track 8...the percussion sounds like scissors. is it a clue to the songs meaning?

Great. Now I feel like I'm having my tone nails cut every time I listen to that version. Keep your wacko theories to yourself Bubba-Ho tep!

I thought it was a metronome but then it stops when the piano pauses.
Logged
prefect319
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11


View Profile
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2011, 09:12:38 AM »

Maybe i didn't read all these posts carefully but someone said it sounded like when brian was calling takes he was having fun.  The thought i have about the dada sessions is that they really show brian not caring as much. It seems to me that he's more apt to just say alright we've done a few takes lets keep it. This  really does seem like a man who just wants to be shot of the whole thing.
Logged
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4701


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2011, 09:33:12 AM »

Maybe i didn't read all these posts carefully but someone said it sounded like when brian was calling takes he was having fun.  The thought i have about the dada sessions is that they really show brian not caring as much. It seems to me that he's more apt to just say alright we've done a few takes lets keep it. This  really does seem like a man who just wants to be shot of the whole thing.

On 'Love To Say Dada (take 2) 2nd day' you can hear Brian in the studio, but someone else is in the booth calling takes.

And I think Brian really cared about the session...he was just going in a new direction....a more chillax atmosphere (hence the exotica vibe to Dada) - and that exotica vibe carried on to the Smiley sessions.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site
Caroline, Now
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


View Profile
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2011, 04:18:22 PM »

Maybe i didn't read all these posts carefully but someone said it sounded like when brian was calling takes he was having fun.  The thought i have about the dada sessions is that they really show brian not caring as much. It seems to me that he's more apt to just say alright we've done a few takes lets keep it. This  really does seem like a man who just wants to be shot of the whole thing.

On 'Love To Say Dada (take 2) 2nd day' you can hear Brian in the studio, but someone else is in the booth calling takes.

And I think Brian really cared about the session...he was just going in a new direction....a more chillax atmosphere (hence the exotica vibe to Dada) - and that exotica vibe carried on to the Smiley sessions.
I've never seen smiley as exotic before. It's certainly very relaxed, but exotic?  Maybe on a few songs...  I'm curious what you mean.
Logged

Mark-pull the first part of the song off comp real P0216643 and back to P0189510 for the chorus. Wait, sorry, it's on the second half of the 'our prayer' reel, P026636, 22 minutes in.  Tracks 2,4 and 5, see?  Wow, this is tiring work...
-Alan Boyd, 2011
Micha
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3131



View Profile WWW
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2011, 10:13:10 PM »

Yes, the "Good Vibrations Session Masters" was a last minute addition, snuck in after the deadline for the Sessionography (and the rest of the book) to go to the printers.

They managed to insert it into the track listing on the fifth last page though.

But actually I'm happy about the "mistakes" in the book - I'm having my first (and probably only) book out next week, and while I'm scared to discover mistakes I made in the finished version, I can relieve myself by thinking those TSS guys screwed things up, too. Grin
Logged

Ceterum censeo SMiLEBrianum OSDumque esse excludendos banno.
Reverend Rock
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 136


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2011, 10:43:52 PM »

Just for fun, folks...

Take the last piano chord of "Love To Say Da Da" and position it next to the opening chord of "Surf's Up" and listen to what happens.

Then tell me if you think that might make a more wonderful end to SMiLE than "Good Vibrations"...
Logged
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4701


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2011, 10:53:14 PM »

Maybe i didn't read all these posts carefully but someone said it sounded like when brian was calling takes he was having fun.  The thought i have about the dada sessions is that they really show brian not caring as much. It seems to me that he's more apt to just say alright we've done a few takes lets keep it. This  really does seem like a man who just wants to be shot of the whole thing.

On 'Love To Say Dada (take 2) 2nd day' you can hear Brian in the studio, but someone else is in the booth calling takes.

And I think Brian really cared about the session...he was just going in a new direction....a more chillax atmosphere (hence the exotica vibe to Dada) - and that exotica vibe carried on to the Smiley sessions.
I've never seen smiley as exotic before. It's certainly very relaxed, but exotic?  Maybe on a few songs...  I'm curious what you mean.

Yes, I meant the exotica vibe carried on to a couple songs in smiley.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site
gfx
Pages: 1 [2] 3 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.199 seconds with 21 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!