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Author Topic: TSS - All things Holidays  (Read 32995 times)
myonlysunshine
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« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2012, 11:25:07 AM »

Random thought here, but I always thought Al Jardine would be a great vocalist for this song. I remember seeing an article linked to on Wikipedia where Van Dyke claimed that the lyrics to this song are vintage 1966, but that they were never recorded. The article has since disappeared though, and a quick Google search hasn't brought up anything.

According to Frank Holmes, the lyrics for Holidays were given to him in 1966.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11738.0.html

Thanks, never saw that before. I sure wish I could find that old Van Dyke Parks interview though, but I guess it's not important.
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« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2012, 11:34:22 AM »

Random thought here, but I always thought Al Jardine would be a great vocalist for this song. I remember seeing an article linked to on Wikipedia where Van Dyke claimed that the lyrics to this song are vintage 1966, but that they were never recorded. The article has since disappeared though, and a quick Google search hasn't brought up anything.

According to Frank Holmes, the lyrics for Holidays were given to him in 1966.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11738.0.html

Thanks, never saw that before. I sure wish I could find that old Van Dyke Parks interview though, but I guess it's not important.

It would give more credibility to Holmes' statement....not that credibility is needed however. I too would like to see that interview. I hope someone here can dig it up.
_____

And vocally, I would give anything to hear what vintage vocals would sound like on Holidays (cue dmcguire for a cover Cheesy).
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« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2012, 11:41:29 AM »

One thing that ticks me off about this track (from TSS) is that damn coda. I know it's been discussed here before, but does anyone know why it sounds the way it does?
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« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2012, 07:18:19 PM »

One thing that ticks me off about this track (from TSS) is that damn coda. I know it's been discussed here before, but does anyone know why it sounds the way it does?

Perhaps what you're referring to is the pitch shifted vocals(slowed down)?
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« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2012, 07:41:50 PM »

One thing that ticks me off about this track (from TSS) is that damn coda. I know it's been discussed here before, but does anyone know why it sounds the way it does?

Perhaps what you're referring to is the pitch shifted vocals(slowed down)?

Yes, and I find it incredibly irritating. JMZ (fellow member here) did a phenomenal mix of that ending, and other 'roll your own' mixes have had similar success in making a good sounding coda.

That's really my only criticism of the set. It just doesn't sound good at all, imo.
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« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2012, 11:14:43 PM »

Random thought here, but I always thought Al Jardine would be a great vocalist for this song.

The other day singing the BWPS lyrics to the TSS version I thought it would be perfect for Mike's range - and voice. (Not mine, anyway Cheesy)
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« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2012, 11:13:50 AM »

Hmmm no mention of the fact that during the sessions Brian refers to what is the verse from BWPS as the chorus.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2012, 07:02:28 AM »

Hmmm no mention of the fact that during the sessions Brian refers to what is the verse from BWPS as the chorus.

see: Reply #47

I noted this and used it to question the idea that the BWPS lyrical format was vintage.

Whatever it is Brian's singing in the background, it ain't no "rock rock rolll....."

Where are the technololgical wizards who can isolate this audio so we can hear what Brian is singing? You've had 7 months, let get cracking!
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2014, 11:52:54 AM »

Still waiting for one of your technical geniuses to isolate Brian's singing as he pounds away at the piano. WE NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!



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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2014, 03:09:01 AM »

An opinion:

I think the lyrics on BWPS must be a rewrite of original lyrics. Looking at Frank Holmes' 1996 drawing, there are clear references to Hawaii (the girl, Lady Lili, a picture of Diamond Head), tourism (the plane and hotel, new holiday apartments, surfing), a shanty town and a ukulele. There's also the Moon (strangely black), an unknown ship's captain, an anchor, alcohol and the obvious milky way reference.

There's nothing in these references that suggests pirates particularly so I think that, as someone else was saying, the 'pirate with a tune' aspect may be a recent joke about pirated recordings. However, if, say, the first line of 'On a Holiday', was changed to 'The captain of a ship on a holiday' or somesuch, then it might be possible to see how those lyrics might have been changed to reflect a new sentiment.

Either way, the original song appears to be about Hawaii and it's rise to prominence as a US tourist destination, accelerated after 1959. As such it's part of the general history of the US theme running through half of the album.

Apart from that, the fragment of tune on the 'Holidays' session certainly doesn't match the tune on BWPS, which maybe suggests that the original tune is lost. This is backed up by the fact that Brian Wilson simply sings the backing melody, something that he almost never did back in the day. So I'd guess the 'rap' section, if any part of it is original, would have been sung originally too.

And for my penny's worth, those scarcely audible lyrics scan poetically like 'we're digging an inStant Town', although I very much doubt that's what they are. Unfortunately, only a couple of the consonants (capitalised) can be caught with any confidence.
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« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2014, 08:04:47 AM »

Oh, and another thing, since no-one's out there and I'm talking to myself. I think the Frank Holmes picture (top right) includes a reference to the sea shanty (chanty) 'What Do We Do With the Drunken Sailor'.

One day the world will return to this thread. Until then I shall be buried at Avalon.
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« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2014, 08:15:19 AM »

Just to throw a bit of a wrench in here: Frank Holmes stated recently that the date on the Holidays drawing was a "mistake" and that there were "no lyrics" provided to him from Brian or Parks in 1966.
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« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2015, 12:48:08 AM »

Just to throw a bit of a wrench in here: Frank Holmes stated recently that the date on the Holidays drawing was a "mistake" and that there were "no lyrics" provided to him from Brian or Parks in 1966.

And with that, just about anything worth pondering regarding this song vanishes.

It's finally great to be able to hear this track with good quality sound, but despite how much  I love Smile I must confess I don't really think much of Holidays at all. It just seems unmemorable and generic to me. I'd like to think that with vocals (not the BWPS version), my mind would be completely changed, but we'll never know. I've tried mashing it up with DYLW, but never to any satisfactory result. For me, it just doesn't rise to the level of the rest of the material- even the other unfinished stuff like CIFOTM. Anyone else share my opinion of this track?

You saying CIFOTM doesn't sound good? Evil
I wouldnt go so far as to call it generic or unmemorable. On any other album it'd be a highlight. But this is SMiLE. And I agree it doesn't match the standards set by the other songs. That, and I think if any song from the Sessions was set for the chopping block, it was this. Look too perhaps, but at least that had vocals recorded. This didnt. That ought to say something, I'd think.



Honestly, the vocal coda never bothered me personally but I could see how it would ruin it for others. I think they really dropped the ball by trying to force the BWPS mold onto these songs. Not every track from the Era had to be on the reconstructed SMiLE. Do what you can with the songs that have enough material to work with to warrant tinkering around, but stuff like Look, Holidays and Dada probably would not have even been on the album. Include them in the sessions discs, make sure there's a usable master take that we can still listen to and then leave them alone as the unfinished, unfinishable, most likely abandoned curiosities they are. Not every transition from BWPS, much less every track, had to be on Disc 1.

/rant.
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Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
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& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
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Bubba Ho-Tep
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« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2015, 08:22:11 PM »

Hmmm no mention of the fact that during the sessions Brian refers to what is the verse from BWPS as the chorus.

see: Reply #47

I noted this and used it to question the idea that the BWPS lyrical format was vintage.

Whatever it is Brian's singing in the background, it ain't no "rock rock rolll....."

Where are the technololgical wizards who can isolate this audio so we can hear what Brian is singing? You've had 7 months, let get cracking!

It's been three years. Has anyone got the technology to crack this Da Vinci code yet?
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Paul2010
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« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2015, 10:27:32 AM »


Honestly, the vocal coda never bothered me personally but I could see how it would ruin it for others. I think they really dropped the ball by trying to force the BWPS mold onto these songs. Not every track from the Era had to be on the reconstructed SMiLE. Do what you can with the songs that have enough material to work with to warrant tinkering around, but stuff like Look, Holidays and Dada probably would not have even been on the album. Include them in the sessions discs, make sure there's a usable master take that we can still listen to and then leave them alone as the unfinished, unfinishable, most likely abandoned curiosities they are. Not every transition from BWPS, much less every track, had to be on Disc 1.


Long time since I posted here, but you perfectly describe the feelings I have, more than 4 years after the release of TSS. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the box and it's content, I couldn't live without it, but there some decisions/ommisions that keep getting me.

I understand that there are some editing choices not everyone may hear or may care about, but when you're a person that hears such things they can be annoying. Just things like uneven noise reduction, crossfadeing of small sections when a hard cut would have worked much better (an extreme is the Bicycle Rider into the Hawaiian Chant). Or the strange editing of the beginning section of TOMP from another take, which gives the track a musically, rhythmically different feeling than the final master take with the vocals. Or the editing in the CIFOTM chorus, which results cutting in the last high aaah's background vocals. Or the fly-ins in Surf's Up, which are, whatever anyone may say or hear, definitely off, or at least clearly different from the singing in the original demo (musically/rhythmically).

Then there are the ommissions that you speak of, and only including the BWPS-mimicking tracks on disc 1 which leaves us with an incomplete picture of the history and the music of the album. Where's Barnyard with backing vocals, LTSD and Fire without the fly-ins, I Wanna Be Around, Vega-Tables, TOMP and LTSD without crossfades, Wind Chimes, CIFOTM and DYLW in its original 1966 form?

Luckily I reconstructed most of these tracks myself or with the help from fan mixes, but it could have been so easy to release this material anyway. And that's still possible, but it's just not happening.

Well, let's spin some great Smile music and enjoy what we actually have, which is an awful lot of brilliant music.
Paul
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« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2015, 08:06:14 PM »


Honestly, the vocal coda never bothered me personally but I could see how it would ruin it for others. I think they really dropped the ball by trying to force the BWPS mold onto these songs. Not every track from the Era had to be on the reconstructed SMiLE. Do what you can with the songs that have enough material to work with to warrant tinkering around, but stuff like Look, Holidays and Dada probably would not have even been on the album. Include them in the sessions discs, make sure there's a usable master take that we can still listen to and then leave them alone as the unfinished, unfinishable, most likely abandoned curiosities they are. Not every transition from BWPS, much less every track, had to be on Disc 1.


Long time since I posted here, but you perfectly describe the feelings I have, more than 4 years after the release of TSS. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the box and it's content, I couldn't live without it, but there some decisions/ommisions that keep getting me.

I understand that there are some editing choices not everyone may hear or may care about, but when you're a person that hears such things they can be annoying. Just things like uneven noise reduction, crossfadeing of small sections when a hard cut would have worked much better (an extreme is the Bicycle Rider into the Hawaiian Chant). Or the strange editing of the beginning section of TOMP from another take, which gives the track a musically, rhythmically different feeling than the final master take with the vocals. Or the editing in the CIFOTM chorus, which results cutting in the last high aaah's background vocals. Or the fly-ins in Surf's Up, which are, whatever anyone may say or hear, definitely off, or at least clearly different from the singing in the original demo (musically/rhythmically).

Then there are the ommissions that you speak of, and only including the BWPS-mimicking tracks on disc 1 which leaves us with an incomplete picture of the history and the music of the album. Where's Barnyard with backing vocals, LTSD and Fire without the fly-ins, I Wanna Be Around, Vega-Tables, TOMP and LTSD without crossfades, Wind Chimes, CIFOTM and DYLW in its original 1966 form?

Luckily I reconstructed most of these tracks myself or with the help from fan mixes, but it could have been so easy to release this material anyway. And that's still possible, but it's just not happening.

Well, let's spin some great Smile music and enjoy what we actually have, which is an awful lot of brilliant music.
Paul

Glad at least one person agrees. Seems like a lot of people here take the view that BWPS is the way Brian wants it, so thats the way it has to be even on TSS. I disagree, I see them as separate projects, but whatever. Im mostly just annoyed by the outtakes. Im sure Im the only one, but I would have wanted more Psychedelic Sounds and isolations (particularly Truck Driving Man and Pretty Baby Wont You Rock With Me Henry). I think the former provides valuable insight into the project often overlooked or taken for granted. The Breathing and Undersea skits almost certainly represent working ideas for Air and Water. The Taxi Cab skit is definitely a humorous way to work in the idea of a journey across America, and by mentioning Chicago, it ties in The Elements (a track that otherwise doesnt truly fit in anywhere) in with Americana. They didnt even give us enough of the Veggie Fight to be able to stitch together a full, believable conversation. Very lame. There's plenty of takes of songs that were left off that warranted inclusion--especially CIFOTM material. And if Three Blind Mice and Cool Cool Water get a slot, why not Cant Wait Too Long and the Untitled Instrumental spanish guitar? This last one isnt as important, but I think some Smiley sessions ought to have been included too. That was what the album grew into, and while totally different, it was also totally similar. It represents working ideas and Brian's thought processes just as much as all the Heroes single sessions. More so, in fact. And when you take Smiley and its weird offbeat funny moments, suddenly the Psychedelic Sounds take on a whole new importance.
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& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
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« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2015, 12:29:29 AM »

Brian was in his peak at arranging, but not at writing in SMiLE. This obscure Holidays melody is just another evidence. Although it fits perfectly, the melodic line is the same from "you never need to doubt it... I'll make you so sure", just adjusting with the new harmony. There's a lot of repeating stuff in SMiLE, and I see it as mistakes, not cohesion
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« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2015, 06:22:45 AM »

Brian was in his peak at arranging, but not at writing in SMiLE. This obscure Holidays melody is just another evidence. Although it fits perfectly, the melodic line is the same from "you never need to doubt it... I'll make you so sure", just adjusting with the new harmony. There's a lot of repeating stuff in SMiLE, and I see it as mistakes, not cohesion

Interesting point. But, do you mean repeating as in repeating earlier stuff, or repeating within SMiLE itself? Because personally, I think the whole repeating themes in BWPS and most people's interpretations of the album are anachronistic. Repeating musical themes like the Worms and H&V choruses probably wouldnt have appeared on the finished album together, etc.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2015, 07:58:50 PM »

Interesting point. But, do you mean repeating as in repeating earlier stuff, or repeating within SMiLE itself? Because personally, I think the whole repeating themes in BWPS and most people's interpretations of the album are anachronistic. Repeating musical themes like the Worms and H&V choruses probably wouldnt have appeared on the finished album together, etc.
Cabin Essence, Vega-Tables, The Old Master Painter and Windchimes all have that same two chord chorus. And all of these songs were printed in the back cover.
One example of repeating melodies is Cabinessence's doing doings and Wonderful. Or those three phrase-ending notes he'd been using since Pet Sounds in GV's "ha-a-ir", WC's "chi-i-imes", CITFOTM "ma-a-an" and CE "ra-a-ange".
These all worked like a charm, but didn't stop from being a limitation
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« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2015, 08:27:36 PM »

Interesting point. But, do you mean repeating as in repeating earlier stuff, or repeating within SMiLE itself? Because personally, I think the whole repeating themes in BWPS and most people's interpretations of the album are anachronistic. Repeating musical themes like the Worms and H&V choruses probably wouldnt have appeared on the finished album together, etc.
Cabin Essence, Vega-Tables, The Old Master Painter and Windchimes all have that same two chord chorus. And all of these songs were printed in the back cover.
One example of repeating melodies is Cabinessence's doing doings and Wonderful. Or those three phrase-ending notes he'd been using since Pet Sounds in GV's "ha-a-ir", WC's "chi-i-imes", CITFOTM "ma-a-an" and CE "ra-a-ange".
These all worked like a charm, but didn't stop from being a limitation
By no means a SMiLE expert, but I always assumed the repeated themes were intentional. Listening to the music and remembering Brian likening the work to a symphony, I guessed that he meant to arrange it into a theme and variations form. Or perhaps fugue or rondo, but anyway... intentionally recurring themes. I thought that was a central part of his thinking and design in composition.
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« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2015, 10:14:03 PM »

Interesting point. But, do you mean repeating as in repeating earlier stuff, or repeating within SMiLE itself? Because personally, I think the whole repeating themes in BWPS and most people's interpretations of the album are anachronistic. Repeating musical themes like the Worms and H&V choruses probably wouldnt have appeared on the finished album together, etc.
Cabin Essence, Vega-Tables, The Old Master Painter and Windchimes all have that same two chord chorus. And all of these songs were printed in the back cover.
One example of repeating melodies is Cabinessence's doing doings and Wonderful. Or those three phrase-ending notes he'd been using since Pet Sounds in GV's "ha-a-ir", WC's "chi-i-imes", CITFOTM "ma-a-an" and CE "ra-a-ange".
These all worked like a charm, but didn't stop from being a limitation

Huh. You know, I didn't realize that. I assumed when you and others complained about the "repeating themes" in SMiLE you meant the recycled choruses circa 1967, the part in Look that sounds like GV and H&V having the same fade as OMP. Stuff like that wouldn't have been on the finished album because H&V reusing pieces wasn't the original plan and when it started to, it was actually indicitive the album was already in a death spiral. Look wouldn't have made the cut, nor Holidays which you say reuses Pet Sounds stuff. So criticisms against SMiLE for instances like those are misinformed and void asaic.

But I had no idea the choruses to so many tracks were so similar. I can't even say it would be a theme on one of the suites, because I don't believe WC belongs with those other tracks, and even going by BWPS/TSS those songs would be in two different suites. Very interesting.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #71 on: January 09, 2016, 08:55:05 AM »

Does anybody have a mono mix of Holidays leading into Wind Chimes, but without the fly-in during the Whispering Wind section?
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« Reply #72 on: January 09, 2016, 03:50:53 PM »

Does anybody have a mono mix of Holidays leading into Wind Chimes, but without the fly-in during the Whispering Wind section?

If anyone can PM me that, it would be greatly appreciated!
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« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2016, 11:09:43 AM »

Does anybody have a mono mix of Holidays leading into Wind Chimes, but without the fly-in during the Whispering Wind section?

If anyone can PM me that, it would be greatly appreciated!

Anyone?
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« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2016, 09:07:07 PM »

Does anybody have a mono mix of Holidays leading into Wind Chimes, but without the fly-in during the Whispering Wind section?

If anyone can PM me that, it would be greatly appreciated!

Anyone?

I really dont think it can be done with what we have. Im certainly not good enough to do it, anyway. How I got around that tho, was I used the "windchimes, tingling" lyrics from Smiley and put those on top of the Holidays fade leading into Wind Chimes for my Aquarian SMiLE mix.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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