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Author Topic: TSS - All things Vegatables  (Read 19264 times)
Roger Ryan
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« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2012, 06:42:08 AM »

The tape containing Brian's attempt at overdubbing the keyboard/xylophone part onto the fade of the SMILEY SMILE "Vegetables" is actually missing from the archives (one of the few known to be stolen outright since excerpts appear on the bootleg SOT SMiLE sessions). Reportedly, the producers did include the occasional bootleg-sourced element in the new set for completion's sake, but chose not to do so for the "Vegetables" sessions. This tape being missing is another reason why the overdub has not been included in any remixes, stereo or otherwise.

It's not a case of a multi-track missing, rather it was a Brian overdub simultaneously added to the mono mix (as appears on the original "Smiley Smile" album version). 

Thanks for the correction, c-man. If I had thought longer on it, I would have realized the evidence is right there on the tape as that section is played through repeatedly as Brian attempts to incorporate the new part in the mix. So, given that this xylophone (?) part never existed on an isolated track, it could not be included in remixes.

Didn't Alan say that this tape was missing from the archives, though? I thought that was one of the few known to be missing (as opposed to being destroyed in the 60s or never existing in the first place).
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« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2012, 02:34:27 PM »

I love every version of Vega-Tables on this box, the demo, the 'album' version, stereo remix and of course the exclusive 45 mix which to me is the best mix of Vega-Tables in existence, the 'dig a hole in the ground' and 'pop the buttons right off my shirt' parts are just superb.
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SloopJohnB52
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« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2012, 05:22:33 PM »

I love every version of Vega-Tables on this box, the demo, the 'album' version, stereo remix and of course the exclusive 45 mix which to me is the best mix of Vega-Tables in existence, the 'dig a hole in the ground' and 'pop the buttons right off my shirt' parts are just superb.

Is the 45 mix in mono or stereo?  EDIT
Thanks!

« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 11:37:22 PM by SMiLE-Holland » Logged
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« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2012, 11:36:27 PM »

Board rules: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,122.0.html

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3) Talking about bootlegs is fine. Posting messages asking for bootlegs or offering bootlegs is not fine. That's what private messages and emails are for. The same of course applies to official recordings.

I find asking for PM's openly on this board tricky enough, but openly requesting up/downloads is one bridge too far, SloopJohnB52.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2012, 11:37:58 PM by SMiLE-Holland » Logged

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Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist
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« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2012, 09:43:22 PM »

This is kinda out of left field, but has anybody (tried) to sync the "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 Revised" with the Veggies fade? I don't care if you have to do a bit of pitch & speed shifting, it'd sound really cool.

Muh. Maybe I'll find an old copy of Logic I have laying around and try it.
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seltaeb1012002
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« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2012, 04:45:59 AM »

This is kinda out of left field, but has anybody (tried) to sync the "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 Revised" with the Veggies fade? I don't care if you have to do a bit of pitch & speed shifting, it'd sound really cool.

Muh. Maybe I'll find an old copy of Logic I have laying around and try it.

I did something like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZoIY8bdNNo
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sly74
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« Reply #56 on: May 08, 2012, 04:44:52 PM »

This is kinda out of left field, but has anybody (tried) to sync the "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 Revised" with the Veggies fade? I don't care if you have to do a bit of pitch & speed shifting, it'd sound really cool.

Muh. Maybe I'll find an old copy of Logic I have laying around and try it.

I did something like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZoIY8bdNNo

So you are the one who made SMiLE A.D. mixes. Well man, I have to say they are absolutely brilliant. I listen to the 4.0 more than anything these days. It's a genius approach, scrapping what might have been, which is of course impossible overall, and presenting an interpretation that gives the feeling of a coherent, had-it-been-completed, feeling! And the mini-mix here, again. With all the recurring melodies and themes, I've thought how interesting it'd be to hear them put together. To you sir, a humble bow.  Smiley
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« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2012, 04:54:44 PM »

This is kinda out of left field, but has anybody (tried) to sync the "Heroes and Villains: Part 2 Revised" with the Veggies fade? I don't care if you have to do a bit of pitch & speed shifting, it'd sound really cool.

Muh. Maybe I'll find an old copy of Logic I have laying around and try it.

I did something like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZoIY8bdNNo
Ah, this is cool, but not quite what I meant.

The Part 2 Revised is the Bicycle Rider theme, but in a different key. I think. Don't feel like listening right now.

Even if it took some time/pitch shifting, I think it would sound REALLY cool over the fade. There's a bit of it on the fade sessions, and I wish it would have continued.
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Which song: Inappropriate relationship with sister-in-law

Which song: Gonna straight up bang you with "the wood".

Which song: Weather conditions make me horny

Which song: Lack of proper shoes leads to potential blood poisoning and death.

Which song: Who needs church? Let's do it on the couch.

Dennis: "Holy sh*t, Al, you're finally showing signs of developing facial hair!!!"
seltaeb1012002
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« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2012, 05:17:40 PM »

Ah, this is cool, but not quite what I meant.

The Part 2 Revised is the Bicycle Rider theme, but in a different key. I think. Don't feel like listening right now.

Even if it took some time/pitch shifting, I think it would sound REALLY cool over the fade. There's a bit of it on the fade sessions, and I wish it would have continued.

Hmm. As far as I know that H&V Pt 2 section sounds the closest to Bicycle Rider, but I could be having a brain fart. As much as I'm acquainted with the music itself, I'm not too up on the titles of the sections.  If you want to hit me with some audio samples, I'd definitely like to check it out. I'm always up for new ideas on Smile mixes.

So you are the one who made SMiLE A.D. mixes. Well man, I have to say they are absolutely brilliant. I listen to the 4.0 more than anything these days. It's a genius approach, scrapping what might have been, which is of course impossible overall, and presenting an interpretation that gives the feeling of a coherent, had-it-been-completed, feeling! And the mini-mix here, again. With all the recurring melodies and themes, I've thought how interesting it'd be to hear them put together. To you sir, a humble bow.  Smiley

Thanks so much man! Glad you dig the mixes.  Grin
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« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2012, 10:45:43 AM »

Is that Paul?

Yes, it is.
Paul joined in on the Vega-Tables sessions and even helped to provide some of the vegetable chewing noises.
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runnersdialzero
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« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2012, 10:42:13 PM »

Is that Paul?

Yes, it is.
Paul joined in on the Vega-Tables sessions and even helped to provide some of the vegetable chewing noises.

According to Alan Boyd, his voice is nowhere to be found on the session tape. ;(
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« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2012, 07:07:18 AM »

I was under the impression that the myth of Macca 'playing' the celery (let alone singing) on "Vegetables" was debunked long ago?
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John Manning
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« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2012, 07:56:13 AM »

I was under the impression that the myth of Macca 'playing' the celery (let alone singing) on "Vegetables" was debunked long ago?

Don't think it was ever proven either way – there appears to be no evidence, though some members of the band still spout the story during interviews (which seems to be a "hey, we hung out with the Beatles" thing, a bit like GOK being Macca's favourite song, "I went to Rishikesh" and "I showed the Beatles how to write Back in the USSR").
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« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2012, 02:41:42 AM »

Marilyn even mentioned Paul being on Vegetables in her essay in the book... not sure why she would have any reason to lie.
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« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2013, 01:26:25 PM »

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Gertie J.
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« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2013, 02:06:50 PM »

where'd ya take that?
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« Reply #66 on: March 21, 2013, 03:28:40 PM »

where'd ya take that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vega-Tables#Performers

LOL
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« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2013, 09:20:37 PM »

Paul was certainly at the sessions for Vega-Tables, as he played some versions of Pepper tracks for Brian as Paul was hearing the Smile songs. You could argue he may have tracked some celery (though it is hard to hear anyone specific besides maybe Carl or Al in the 1st Verse instrumental, but clearly there are a bunch of people talking and laughing), but don't worry I'll hope in my time machine and take plenty of videos of the Smile sessions when I get a chance.
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« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2013, 10:16:42 PM »

Not sure if this is news or not, but I found something interesting about VegeTables in the booklet with the 2-CD version and the vinyl booklet. There is large artwork for VegeTables near the end of both and, in the bottom right corner, is says '"My Vege-tables' The Elements."

So.. I guess that means it's meant for The Elements Suite...

I would have included a picture, but all I have is my phone and the resolution would have just been difficult to read.
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« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2013, 02:39:27 PM »

Not sure if this is news or not, but I found something interesting about VegeTables in the booklet with the 2-CD version and the vinyl booklet. There is large artwork for VegeTables near the end of both and, in the bottom right corner, is says '"My Vege-tables' The Elements."

So.. I guess that means it's meant for The Elements Suite...

I would have included a picture, but all I have is my phone and the resolution would have just been difficult to read.

I believe Vegetables was the Earth part at one point (probably the cornucopia version) but was turned into a stand alone track after they missed the deadline to deliver the album to Capitol.
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« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2015, 09:40:10 PM »

Not sure if this is news or not, but I found something interesting about VegeTables in the booklet with the 2-CD version and the vinyl booklet. There is large artwork for VegeTables near the end of both and, in the bottom right corner, is says '"My Vege-tables' The Elements."

So.. I guess that means it's meant for The Elements Suite...

I would have included a picture, but all I have is my phone and the resolution would have just been difficult to read.

I believe Vegetables was the Earth part at one point (probably the cornucopia version) but was turned into a stand alone track after they missed the deadline to deliver the album to Capitol.

Or Frank Holmes goofed. Or VDP goofed when he told Frank about it. I don't buy VT as an element. Very forced connection, imho.

I this Vega-Tables is a really key track.

There's a lot to be written on this, but I think you see -- across the stretch of the Smile sessions -- a conscious move by Brian away from the session guys and toward a very stripped down instrumental sound.

Vega-Tables is mainly a piano, some bass and percussion. Almost nothing else. The vocals do incredibly elaborate things, of course, but it's a real shift from the Spector-styled H&V verses. You can see how Smiley Smile was not a departure at all -- it was a logical extension of a approach that Brian had been working on for months.

Thank you for pointing this out. I've come to see the transition as more nuanced as well, but I had no idea it began with the SMiLE/Single version of Veggies. Makes sense though, seeing as this was one of the last SMiLE songs worked on.

This new mix of Vegetables is absolutely incredible. One of the highlights of The SMiLE Sessions for me.

Absolutely agree. My only suggestions for an improvement would be trying to splice in the cornucopia lyrics and, if it wouldnt sound too busy, the veggie fights with Hal over the fade.


Speaking of which, does anybody know why the cornucopia lyrics were scrapped?
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2015, 05:48:36 PM »

Not sure if this is news or not, but I found something interesting about VegeTables in the booklet with the 2-CD version and the vinyl booklet. There is large artwork for VegeTables near the end of both and, in the bottom right corner, is says '"My Vege-tables' The Elements."

So.. I guess that means it's meant for The Elements Suite...

I would have included a picture, but all I have is my phone and the resolution would have just been difficult to read.

I believe Vegetables was the Earth part at one point (probably the cornucopia version) but was turned into a stand alone track after they missed the deadline to deliver the album to Capitol.

Or Frank Holmes goofed. Or VDP goofed when he told Frank about it. I don't buy VT as an element. Very forced connection, imho.

I this Vega-Tables is a really key track.

There's a lot to be written on this, but I think you see -- across the stretch of the Smile sessions -- a conscious move by Brian away from the session guys and toward a very stripped down instrumental sound.

Vega-Tables is mainly a piano, some bass and percussion. Almost nothing else. The vocals do incredibly elaborate things, of course, but it's a real shift from the Spector-styled H&V verses. You can see how Smiley Smile was not a departure at all -- it was a logical extension of a approach that Brian had been working on for months.

Thank you for pointing this out. I've come to see the transition as more nuanced as well, but I had no idea it began with the SMiLE/Single version of Veggies. Makes sense though, seeing as this was one of the last SMiLE songs worked on.

This new mix of Vegetables is absolutely incredible. One of the highlights of The SMiLE Sessions for me.

Absolutely agree. My only suggestions for an improvement would be trying to splice in the cornucopia lyrics and, if it wouldnt sound too busy, the veggie fights with Hal over the fade.


Speaking of which, does anybody know why the cornucopia lyrics were scrapped?

They were scrapped because Mike Love had a fueling grudge against Van Dyke Parks, and thought they were too weird to make the cut (most probably)....
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« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2015, 06:22:24 PM »

Im sure thats possible, but Id like to see a source. Why those lyrics in particular? Because of the word "tripped?" If so, why keep the pun about rolling a blunt ("I threw away the candy bar and I ate the wrapper (wink! wink!) and when they told me what I did I burst into laughter") ? Im sure there's more to it than that.

I guess I should mention it here for posterity, but my theory is Veggies was meant to go with the Americana songs on the original LP. My evidence is the tone and style fits very well with H&V and the two were together on Smiley as well. The idea of vegetables growing could fit very well within an Americana context, as a celebration of agriculture in the US, perhaps even on a barnyard. The spelling of the track could be a reference to Vega, the brightest star in the constellation Lyra, which is a Lyre (musical instrument) being gripped by an Eagle--a subtle reference to Americana Music? This last point is by far the most speculative, but if you take the titles for this, OMP, H&V, Worms, CE, and IIGS and add them up according to numerology, you get the same total as if you added up the titles for Wonderful, CIFOTM, Elements, GV, SU and WC, which to me implies those two groupings of tracks would make up each side. I think there is some proof VT was an element or at least started that way, and maybe my last point is wrong and Elements would be on the Americana side too--the title MOLC being a reference to the Chicago Fire lends evidence to that. But regardless of whether Veggies was part of that track or not, I think there's more than enough to conclude it ties into the Americana songs thematically and sounds better with them than mashed with Fire, WC and Dada.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
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« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2016, 05:14:09 AM »

I'm just disappointed that he wasted so much time on a song that wasn't that good to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I love "Fade To Vegetables". Although, the rest of it seems so out of place to me, it almost is like the pre-cursor to "Smiley Smile". I don't know why he'd think it would be a better single than "H&V", either.  "Vege-tables" is far inferior to "H&V".
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« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2016, 07:05:43 AM »

My evidence is the tone and style fits very well with H&V and the two were together on Smiley as well.

I was just thinking about this last night and I think that there could be more conversation on this. Quick relevant sidebar: when I first listened to the Neil Young Massey Hall concert which was recorded pre-Harvest, I was amazed to discover that Heart of Gold once first saw life as merely being a section of his song A Man Needs a Maid. Significantly on Harvest they are two separate and different tracks but they are placed right night to each other still somewhat linked. While the example of H&V and VT on Smiley is a different one (VT, of course, was never a section of H&V as far as we know) it is possible that there are similarities. H&V and VT to me do have a great deal in common. They are both the most comedic Smile tracks, for one. For another the idea for a collection of laughter that was eventually used in the background of the Cantina section was originally used in the background of the VT demo. Then there is the Eat a Lot section which was transferred from H&V (or, perhaps, IIGS) to VT.

Now granted you can find connections like these between lots of Smile songs but nevertheless the two songs have a good deal of overlap on the ol' Venn diagram and it culminates with the two songs appearing side-by-side on Smiley. That said, I created a version of the album too where the acapella VT "ending" segued into Fire (without the H&V intro) and it sounded pretty awesome. Maybe a Smile H&V --> VT --> Elements 123 track listing would be in order. It would interestingly coincide somewhat with the first three tracks of Smiley (not that I'm a proponent of strictly adhering to the Smiley tracklisting to uncover what Smile's would have been, but I'm not a proponent of completely throwing that theory away either).
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