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Author Topic: TSS - All things Surf's Up  (Read 37013 times)
Ron
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« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2011, 10:35:28 PM »

So at the end, then, he kicks it back up into the key it's supposed to be in?  That's pretty bad-ass.  Kind of the opposite of him doing "Don't Worry Baby" in Long Beach, ever heard that?  He comes out live, sings the song in the original key and it sounds god-awful, so halfway through he just goes down an octave for the rest of the song, lol. 
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Loaf
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2011, 05:02:30 AM »


In THAT version, you hear in my opinion the dichotomy of what Brian heard in his head, and what he was able to show others.  So to the outside listener, they heard Brian singing the demo.  Piano, beautiful voice.  In Brian's head, though, were all the other harmonies and voices singing along with him, like they are at the end of that version.  So it goes from outside Brian's head, inside Brian's head when the boys all chime in with their incredible vocals at the end.

Now I know that's not the official version of the song or whatever, but the '71 version will always have a special place in my heart. 

I think the 71 version is just as legitimate as the Smile-era versions. It has the exact same feeling, of goosebumps, like you said. Smiley
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Bleachboy
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2011, 09:17:48 AM »

The stereo version is simply amazing. Goosebumps every second.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2011, 10:28:11 AM »

I love every version for different reasons. Weird eh?  Huh
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TerryWogan
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2011, 11:26:03 AM »

Without wanting to jump on the 'audible edits' bandwagon, can anyone else hear an obvious (on headphones at least) edit at around 2:05 just before 'while at port' on the '67 solo version?
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prefect319
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« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2011, 12:12:57 PM »

OK i posted this question in another part of the boards but i'm curious. Do you think that that key change at the end of the 67 surfs up was intentional or did brian suddenly think to himself oh crap i'm in the wrong key here lets fix it?
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TerryWogan
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« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2011, 12:28:13 PM »

OK i posted this question in another part of the boards but i'm curious. Do you think that that key change at the end of the 67 surfs up was intentional or did brian suddenly think to himself oh crap i'm in the wrong key here lets fix it?

Intentional without a doubt. I mean, he'd have to have specifically learnt how to play it in the '67 key, as opposed to accidentally falling into the wrong key. I suppose on a guitar it's easy enough to accidentally transpose something if you don't have a reference and you're playing barre chords, but on a piano? Nah Smiley.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 12:29:13 PM by TerryWogan » Logged
tansen
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« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2011, 12:48:38 PM »

OK i posted this question in another part of the boards but i'm curious. Do you think that that key change at the end of the 67 surfs up was intentional or did brian suddenly think to himself oh crap i'm in the wrong key here lets fix it?

Intentional without a doubt. I mean, he'd have to have specifically learnt how to play it in the '67 key, as opposed to accidentally falling into the wrong key. I suppose on a guitar it's easy enough to accidentally transpose something if you don't have a reference and you're playing barre chords, but on a piano? Nah Smiley.

Totally intentional, but don't think he would have to specifically 'learn' it, to play it. Any (good) piano player will be able to transpose pretty much on the fly.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 03:43:07 PM by tansen » Logged

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TerryWogan
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« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2011, 12:59:55 PM »

Totally intentional, but don't think he would have to specifically 'learn' it, to play it. Any piano (good) piano player will be able to transpose pretty much on the fly.

Fair dos. I'm an appalling piano player, so that's not something I could ever do Razz.
But I do think even if you're that proficient, it'd be difficult to accidentally play in the wrong key; when you're playing a tune you know well and muscle memory takes over, if your fingers aren't on the right keys it's going to sound messy.
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pixletwin
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« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2011, 03:06:44 PM »

Totally intentional, but don't think he would have to specifically 'learn' it, to play it. Any piano (good) piano player will be able to transpose pretty much on the fly.

Fair dos. I'm an appalling piano player, so that's not something I could ever do Razz.
But I do think even if you're that proficient, it'd be difficult to accidentally play in the wrong key; when you're playing a tune you know well and muscle memory takes over, if your fingers aren't on the right keys it's going to sound messy.

Exactly... Plus it's not even a strait transposition as the bass note emphasis on the 67 version is quite different. Definitely intentional on Brian's part.
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tansen
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« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2011, 03:44:38 PM »

For sure. He knew what he was doing!
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The Song Of The Grange
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« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2011, 08:44:50 PM »

The Surf's Up 1967 version is a surprise to me. It sounds like a Smiley Smile or Wild Honey outtake, but I've never heard a thing about it in the pre-box set years. I haven't found any info on it in my first pass through the big box set book. If this is post-Smile, I wonder if Brian was considering putting the song on either SS or WH?
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2011, 08:48:48 PM »

The Surf's Up 1967 version is a surprise to me. It sounds like a Smiley Smile or Wild Honey outtake, but I've never heard a thing about it in the pre-box set years. I haven't found any info on it in my first pass through the big box set book. If this is post-Smile, I wonder if Brian was considering putting the song on either SS or WH?

It wasn't discovered until fairly recently - they were going through the Wild Honey tapes and found 5 takes of Brian playing the song at the end of a "Country Air" reel. 

As far as why he did it, I haven't heard any reason given, although I'm inclined to think it was just something he felt like doing on a whim, or, if planned, wanted to do for the sake of posterity.
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The Song Of The Grange
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« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2011, 08:59:27 PM »

Thanks for the info Chris Brown. I did find some info in the book under "Additional tracks". It just says "Fall 1967". Very interesting that it was at the end of a Country Air reel. Man, I was not expecting a Fall '67 Surf's Up and I am sure glad to have heard it. Biggest moment so far for me with the box set.
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donald
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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2011, 07:39:18 AM »

I am at work and don't have the box in front of me, but, is the 67 demo the one very near the end of disc one, just Brian and the piano?    I didn't think I had heard that before and it is truly nice.   Could be MY fav version of the song.
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2011, 10:06:30 AM »

I am at work and don't have the box in front of me, but, is the 67 demo the one very near the end of disc one, just Brian and the piano?    I didn't think I had heard that before and it is truly nice.   Could be MY fav version of the song.

Yep that's the one. The '66 demo is on disc 3 along with the other "Surf's Up" material. Both amazing, I'm so glad we now have all these great versions of the songs to listen to!
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AlFall
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« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2011, 10:34:52 AM »

The stereo Surf's Up on side 4 of the vinyl is one of the most beautiful recordings of any music ever.    I am very, very happy to be able to afford the $150 box set and have a turntable to hear it, and I am truly thankful that TSS was finally released.

Considering that the Beach Boys' music is arguably better than the Beatles during the 1965-67 period (and that's saying a lot), the Beach Boys' marketing continues to pale in comparison to the Fab Four.  The Beatles did exactly the right thing in 2009: they knew that most people listen to music today on headphone units like iPods, which are not designed for mono.  They released the original albums in their original stereo, adding a little bit of limiting and EQ to make the recordings sound modern.  For hard-core fans, they released a mono box set, with no limiting, as the mono mixes on the early albums sound a lot better on high quality equipment.  They also released 24-bit digital tracks on a USB stick.  That way, everybody got everything.  

The 2-CD version of TSS should be for the general public, and the tracks should be in stereo.  SMiLE is too good a work for it not to be heard by the public at large.  As it is, the mono sounds hollow on iPods.  A potential new fan will probably delete the tracks from the iPod after listening for a few minutes, wondering what all the hype is about.  They may never listen long enough to hear the stereo sessions and alternate takes tracks on the 2 CD set, which are well worth hearing.  

I have no complaints about the full 5 CD / vinyl box set.  It is a magnificent product, well worth the $150 I paid.  On this set, they did everything right - the hard core fans like us want to hear the mono on vinyl. It's a wonderful bonus to hear the stereo mixes on side 4 of the vinyl, but it's poor marketing to put the stereo mixes on the $150 set rather than the main 2-CD release.  I guess SMiLE will be forever relegated as a niche product with a cult following, rather than the magnificent work of art that rivals Beethoven's 9th Symphony in beauty and grandeur.
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donald
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 12:07:10 PM »

well put alfall
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LetHimRun
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« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2011, 12:47:25 PM »

The stereo Surf's Up on side 4 of the vinyl is one of the most beautiful recordings of any music ever.    I am very, very happy to be able to afford the $150 box set and have a turntable to hear it, and I am truly thankful that TSS was finally released.

Considering that the Beach Boys' music is arguably better than the Beatles during the 1965-67 period (and that's saying a lot), the Beach Boys' marketing continues to pale in comparison to the Fab Four.  The Beatles did exactly the right thing in 2009: they knew that most people listen to music today on headphone units like iPods, which are not designed for mono.  They released the original albums in their original stereo, adding a little bit of limiting and EQ to make the recordings sound modern.  For hard-core fans, they released a mono box set, with no limiting, as the mono mixes on the early albums sound a lot better on high quality equipment.  They also released 24-bit digital tracks on a USB stick.  That way, everybody got everything.  

The 2-CD version of TSS should be for the general public, and the tracks should be in stereo.  SMiLE is too good a work for it not to be heard by the public at large.  As it is, the mono sounds hollow on iPods.  A potential new fan will probably delete the tracks from the iPod after listening for a few minutes, wondering what all the hype is about.  They may never listen long enough to hear the stereo sessions and alternate takes tracks on the 2 CD set, which are well worth hearing.  

I have no complaints about the full 5 CD / vinyl box set.  It is a magnificent product, well worth the $150 I paid.  On this set, they did everything right - the hard core fans like us want to hear the mono on vinyl. It's a wonderful bonus to hear the stereo mixes on side 4 of the vinyl, but it's poor marketing to put the stereo mixes on the $150 set rather than the main 2-CD release.  I guess SMiLE will be forever relegated as a niche product with a cult following, rather than the magnificent work of art that rivals Beethoven's 9th Symphony in beauty and grandeur.

I agree, but how much could they really have of SMiLE in full stereo? The general public would delete the tracks after they realized the majority were incomplete or when the songs switched from stereo to mono in sections where stereo isn't possible. It'd be a mess.

Seriously, the biggest song on the album that the general public knows, Good Vibrations, can't even be in full stereo.

This is why they went with the all mono on the 2CD set, not counting that if it were officially released in 1967, it would be mono.
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Bleachboy
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« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 03:33:02 PM »

If it were released officially in 1967, we wouldn't have a 19 song album. As much as I love mono, I really think that the 2cd version at least shold have been as much stereo as possible. The stereo mixes on side 4 literally blew my mind. Mono can do justice to a beautiful production work (I'm thinking about Spector's River Deep, Montain High), but I don't really think it's the case here.
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positivemusic
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« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2011, 08:04:05 PM »

So far, I have only heard the versions on disc 1, though I am finally getting to the sessions.

First, I love the new studio version. The echo on Brian's first "domino" is mind blowing and powerful. I'm very glad they included the "bygones" and along with Carl's "canvas the town..." part being included, he gets the due he deserves, considering the work he did on the song in '71.

I love the '67 demo version as well. The "first movement" is so intimate and touching its unreal. I'm not a big fan of the style that Brian sings the "dove nested towers" part in, but I'm in love with the way he moves back into playing the chords into the coda of the song. Overall, a gem. One of the pieces on the box I'm most thankful for!
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LetHimRun
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« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2011, 09:56:09 PM »

If it were released officially in 1967, we wouldn't have a 19 song album. As much as I love mono, I really think that the 2cd version at least shold have been as much stereo as possible. The stereo mixes on side 4 literally blew my mind. Mono can do justice to a beautiful production work (I'm thinking about Spector's River Deep, Montain High), but I don't really think it's the case here.

Doesn't matter. Was never going to happen.

And for 1967, it wouldn't have been 19 tracks, but I can bet you the lot that it would have been 19 tracks before it was true stereo.
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Mahalo
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« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2011, 10:33:55 PM »

I really really dig the version that was assembled on the 'album' proper... really.
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robertgotshall
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« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2011, 01:44:24 AM »

I agree, but how much could they really have of SMiLE in full stereo? The general public would delete the tracks after they realized the majority were incomplete or when the songs switched from stereo to mono in sections where stereo isn't possible. It'd be a mess.

Honestly, who would know? I really don't think that the general public would care or even notice that a couple sections/songs here and there aren't in stereo. We, the fans, would notice, but IMO it's not the end of the world going from a stereo track to a mono track.

Take Purple Chick's reconstruction, for example. While the vast majority of the album is in stereo, or "stereo", there are quite a few sections in mono, or close to it. And you know what? To this guy right here, it sounds great (come at me, haters). In particular, Barnyard sounds pretty cool in mono amidst all of the stereo; it almost acts as a nice little audio effect.

I sent the Purple Chick mix to a friend of mine (pre TSS, of course) who definitely qualifies as the "general public", and he LOVED it. Did he notice that some of it was in mono? Not in the slightest. I even used the version of "In Blue Hawaii" with the mono sections that PC included as a bonus track in lieu of the full stereo one because it sounds so much better.

Also, didn't The Beatles include a couple of songs in mono on the stereo Past Masters disc? Some of the early stuff that doesn't exist in stereo at all? That was released in 2009 and I'm pretty sure no one dropped dead upon hearing it.

My long-winded point is that, had disc one of TSS been released in as much stereo as possible with mono here and there, we would be fine. That said, I'm very grateful for what we've been given.

Anyway, back to Surf's Up. It roolz.  Grin
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 01:45:50 AM by robertgotshall » Logged
The Demon
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« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2011, 07:27:37 AM »

So at the end, then, he kicks it back up into the key it's supposed to be in?  That's pretty bad-ass.  Kind of the opposite of him doing "Don't Worry Baby" in Long Beach, ever heard that?  He comes out live, sings the song in the original key and it sounds god-awful, so halfway through he just goes down an octave for the rest of the song, lol. 

I really hope/wonder if he'd have tried a similar trick with the key changes if there had been a backing track for "Surf's Up" with the band.  Guess we'll never know.
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