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Author Topic: TSS - All things "Barnyard Suite"  (Read 48052 times)
puni puni
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« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2014, 05:24:29 AM »

I'm sure they would have looked up the lyrics if he wanted them.
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IAmTheMilkMan
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« Reply #101 on: February 02, 2014, 05:39:23 PM »

I'm sure they would have looked up the lyrics if he wanted them.
That's what I would have thought, but I just don't know anymore when it comes to Smile.
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Tilt Araiza
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« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2014, 05:28:58 PM »

My recollection is, someone (I think it might have been for the Earcandy site) interviewed Brian before one of the 2004 shows, asked about the OMP lyrics, Brian said that OMP was not meant to have vocals and then, with typical Brian perversity, sang the lyrics that night and every other night for the rest of the tour (I heard him do it in LA).
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AJOG
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« Reply #103 on: March 24, 2014, 02:44:19 PM »

Does anyone know what the influence for the instrumental of Barnyard was? Like what songs from that era would have been remotely similar to this (in pop culture, western soundtracks, or Disney productions)?

Old McDonald Had A Farm could be an influence, but I can't find a recording from that before that era that sounds like Barnyard.

I'd say that Aaron Copland's "Hoedown" from the Rodeo Suite probably had some influence. Moreso in Barnshine, perhaps.
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2015, 02:46:20 AM »

I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Were OMP and IWBA already in the can by this point? My memory's fuzzy on that. Could explain a LOT if this vocal session survived. I wonder if the Great Shape medley as it exists on BWPS is vintage then? I wonder if Do A Lot started as a H&V fragment or was repurposed as one from Great Shape, similar to Bicycle Rider.

I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.

To tie this into my earlier comment, I think that Do A Lot chorus really makes sense as Great Shape too. Those lyrics fit perfectly with the track title and demo vocals. We know that chorus didnt belong in Veggies until that song became a single. Then it was given a chorus similar to how Heroes was given one. The question is whether Do A Lot began as part of Heroes or GS, but even that isnt totally important because Great Shape itself was a Heroes fragment spun off into its own song. It's reasonable other H&V fragments were spun off into it too.

Well, one thing I can say is that the final version of "I'm In Great Shape" on BWPS is absolutely unbeatable to my ears.

I think it sounds awful, but mostly because of where its placed. That big upbeat intro right after Surf's Up has got to be one of the most jarring and awful transitions in music history.

Someone else on here said the person who mixed the boxset, while doing the absolute best they could do, "don't have musical ears". I would agree completely. It's no surprise when listening to the 2001 remasters and was unfortunately expected to a degree with this. That said it is, with the "album" aside, worth it. It's too bad a new listener has to hear it this way. Kind of hard to plead the case of it being brilliant. The most I've been able to make convincing is with the H&V sections on disc 1. I hear a lot of "why didn't they use that part?"

I agree, and that's what actually fueled my obsession with remixing the album. I hate TSS Disc 1 for so many reasons, I think the music deserves better presentation, and I hate that anyone who hears about SMiLE for the first time will be subjected to such a shoddy sequence with many questionable versions of the songs used that will no doubt lessen their opinion of the whole thing. A damn shame, I'd say.

Like the best poetry, both songs are open to interpretation as to their full meaning. I will agree with you that the lyrics to He Gives Speeches and Wonderful feel connected. The "left with her liberty" line I feel is a clue that Parks is referring to all of America, as in "my country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty". That would bring the song back to the whole "see what you've done to the church of the American Indian" theme. "A boy" is not just a boy but the totality of the European invasion of America. The yodeling in the background could represent the cowboys taking the land and fencing off the country into property. Maybe the "chalk and numbers" refers to this division of America's landscape. He Gives Speeches  refers to "silken hair fell on his face and no wind was blowing"- perhaps a callback to Cabinessence line about uncovering the corn field: The corn crops of the Indians are being cut down by the European man to make way for their colonization.  I'm tired now.

Well, you should be tired!  That's quite a bit of brainpower you just used!  How I wish all of these SMiLE discussions probed so deeply into the musical and lyrical riches buried there!

It's very interesting to me to consider the possibility of an "Americana" symbolism beneath the surface romantic/sexual imagery of these two songs.  I think, also, that in a '67 SMiLE, these two songs could have been key to making "Good Vibrations" actually fit the overall sonic and lyrical picture.  On a recent "SMiLE '67" LP-length fan-mix that I did, I placed "He Gives Speeches/Wonderful" as one track in between "Cabin Essence" and "Good Vibrations", with GV closing my "side one" and it made for a very natural progression of musical/lyrical thematics.

You guys have really got me rethinking Wonderful. I still see it mostly as about a young woman coping with rape, and perhaps an attack on the hippie idea of free love and dont trust anyone over 30. But taken as a wider metaphor for the rape of America by the Europeans is a fascinating interpretation. I still think it sounds kinda bad coming after Cabin Essence, but perhaps coming right after Worms wouldnt be such a bad idea? It'd sound good coming after that piano outro and be thematically linked. I appreciate the inspiration. I also appreciate that you found a way to make GV not seem like such an odd man out. I never really thought it belonged with the other tracks, but now you got me thinking...

Quick question about what's been booted for False Barnyard. On Project Smile, there's a FB session where Brian is directing Carl with some bg vocals, but I haven't heard a version with those vocals properly included. The TSS version doesn't include these vocals either. Is a there a version out there that does?

Id like an answer to this as well.

In the sessions for OMP, Brian sings the classic lyrics "The old master painter from the faraway hills..." Do you think this means there were definitely vocals that were supposed to go there or was he just singing that to give the musicians an idea of the sound he was looking for?

Hard to say - he seems to be singing it to emphasize how he wanted the line played ("it should sound far away").  But just the fact that he brings up lyrics at all makes me think that he may have intended to record them being sung with the cello.  Plus, for what it's worth, he sang the lyrics at least once at a BWPS show.

My recollection is, someone (I think it might have been for the Earcandy site) interviewed Brian before one of the 2004 shows, asked about the OMP lyrics, Brian said that OMP was not meant to have vocals and then, with typical Brian perversity, sang the lyrics that night and every other night for the rest of the tour (I heard him do it in LA).

Absolutely classic Brian. The King of the Trolls, the textbook definition of the eccentric genius. For my money, OMP ought to have had lyrics. Why not? Plus, it really would give the song an entirely new and deep meaning I never considered before until now. SMiLE was all about a teenage symphony to God, exploring alternate ideologies and spiritualities and the like. At least, that's my take on it. What if the OMP/YAMS connection wasnt just some arbitrary pairing of standards? I should have given Brian and VDP more credit than that... YAMS, sung in the past-tense and thus given the feeling of sadness and loss...this is incredibly significant coming after OMP. It's about Brian losing his faith. Maybe not doubting the existence or motivation of God necessarily, but of the traditional Western beliefs and mythology of him. I can't believe I never considered this before, but now that I have, it gives me 100x more respect for a track I always considered expendable before. I now understand better why Brian called this "the big finale" because it really does tie the whole conflicting themes of the album together. I think this new revelation solves the SMiLE conundrum of how all these seemingly random tracks and ideas were supposed to fit as part of a larger whole.



Anyway, I dont think Great Shape or Barnyard deserve to be on any SMiLE in their present state. Why two random fragments as tracks? Makes no sense. I think if the Capitol list is accurate, and Great Shape was track, it'd have been a medley of what became the more tangential Heroes segments, including I guess, Barnyard. I think OMP/YAMS would have been a separate thing and not part of this suite, tho.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 02:53:43 AM by Mujan, B@st@rd Son of a Blue Wizard » Logged

Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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Been Too Long
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« Reply #105 on: January 16, 2015, 09:17:18 AM »

I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Were OMP and IWBA already in the can by this point? My memory's fuzzy on that. Could explain a LOT if this vocal session survived. I wonder if the Great Shape medley as it exists on BWPS is vintage then? I wonder if Do A Lot started as a H&V fragment or was repurposed as one from Great Shape, similar to Bicycle Rider.

I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.

To tie this into my earlier comment, I think that Do A Lot chorus really makes sense as Great Shape too. Those lyrics fit perfectly with the track title and demo vocals. We know that chorus didnt belong in Veggies until that song became a single. Then it was given a chorus similar to how Heroes was given one. The question is whether Do A Lot began as part of Heroes or GS, but even that isnt totally important because Great Shape itself was a Heroes fragment spun off into its own song. It's reasonable other H&V fragments were spun off into it too.

When that Heroes demo first showed up on Endless Harmony there was a lot of discussion about how that fit into the timeline.

So there is that May 66 recording of heroes, then from summer 66 through the first part of October sessions and recordings  for:
Good Vibs, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Speeches, Holidays, Look/I Ran, Prayer, Cabin Essence/Home on the Range, Child, and Worms.

Then the I’m in Great Shape vocal session.

Then the first Heroes session (including the tracking for Barnyard)

Then the Beach Boys leave for Europe.

Then, a week later, the next Heroes session, this one including the tracking we have heard for Great Shape.

A week later Brian plays the demo version for Humble Harv.

Through November he records Surf’s Up and My Only Sunshine/Old Master Painter.

The Beach Boys return.

Then sessions held for The Elements(part one) and Friday Night (I’m in great shape) along with vocals for OMP, Cabin and Child last week of November -first week December.

Then, the tracklist gets to Capitol around Dec 10th? Includes Great Shape as its own track.

Then more vocal sessions: Heroes, Surf’s Up, etc. to the end of December.

January 3rd ‘67 Heroes vocal session includes first known recording of “Do A Lot” (in E major, if I remember correctly, same key as Vega-Tables)

January, February ’67 mostly Heroes sessions (with no sign of Great Shape)

April ’67 Vegetable sessions and then the album is scrapped.
_________________________________________

So what does it mean?

Well that Great Shape vocal session happened so early in the Smile timeframe that it not only predates stuff like OMP, Friday Night, and Do A Lot; it also predates any Heroes session (except the May 66 attempt.) So if taken as a Heroes section, the Great Shape vocal session is the first thing recorded for Heroes and Villains but, then not called Heroes and Villains?

The assumption has been made that Great Shape started as its own track; late October/ early November, Brian toys with the idea of using part/all of it as a bridge for Heroes and Villains, then end of November it’s back to being its own track and is listed on the tracklist to Capitol. By the end of November things had been settled for the album according to Vosse, Van Dyke, and maybe Brian, and none of the later stuff for Heroes includes Great Shape, but around the time of the Heroes demo recording things were still in flux (“We’re still working”.)

The idea that “Do A Lot” was part or even all of Great Shape I remember being around before the demo recording turned up in 1998. It was the idea that Great Shape must be a fitness themed track but now we know it has more to do with farming and agriculture like the new found Child vocals. It was kind of a guess, something to take the place of that track because nothing else existed to fill its slot even if it doesn’t make sense since the first known recording of Do A lot doesn’t happen until 67, two and half months after that Great Shape vocal session.

So what was that October I’m in Great Shape vocal session? Either something recorded to one of the previous to Oct 17th recorded titles, acapella vocals, Brian piano track with vocals, or something recorded to some track from an unknown tracking session. Still really a mystery.
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #106 on: January 16, 2015, 12:57:54 PM »

I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Were OMP and IWBA already in the can by this point? My memory's fuzzy on that. Could explain a LOT if this vocal session survived. I wonder if the Great Shape medley as it exists on BWPS is vintage then? I wonder if Do A Lot started as a H&V fragment or was repurposed as one from Great Shape, similar to Bicycle Rider.

I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.

To tie this into my earlier comment, I think that Do A Lot chorus really makes sense as Great Shape too. Those lyrics fit perfectly with the track title and demo vocals. We know that chorus didnt belong in Veggies until that song became a single. Then it was given a chorus similar to how Heroes was given one. The question is whether Do A Lot began as part of Heroes or GS, but even that isnt totally important because Great Shape itself was a Heroes fragment spun off into its own song. It's reasonable other H&V fragments were spun off into it too.

When that Heroes demo first showed up on Endless Harmony there was a lot of discussion about how that fit into the timeline.

So there is that May 66 recording of heroes, then from summer 66 through the first part of October sessions and recordings  for:
Good Vibs, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Speeches, Holidays, Look/I Ran, Prayer, Cabin Essence/Home on the Range, Child, and Worms.

Then the I’m in Great Shape vocal session.

Then the first Heroes session (including the tracking for Barnyard)

Then the Beach Boys leave for Europe.

Then, a week later, the next Heroes session, this one including the tracking we have heard for Great Shape.

A week later Brian plays the demo version for Humble Harv.

Through November he records Surf’s Up and My Only Sunshine/Old Master Painter.

The Beach Boys return.

Then sessions held for The Elements(part one) and Friday Night (I’m in great shape) along with vocals for OMP, Cabin and Child last week of November -first week December.

Then, the tracklist gets to Capitol around Dec 10th? Includes Great Shape as its own track.

Then more vocal sessions: Heroes, Surf’s Up, etc. to the end of December.

January 3rd ‘67 Heroes vocal session includes first known recording of “Do A Lot” (in E major, if I remember correctly, same key as Vega-Tables)

January, February ’67 mostly Heroes sessions (with no sign of Great Shape)

April ’67 Vegetable sessions and then the album is scrapped.
_________________________________________

So what does it mean?

Well that Great Shape vocal session happened so early in the Smile timeframe that it not only predates stuff like OMP, Friday Night, and Do A Lot; it also predates any Heroes session (except the May 66 attempt.) So if taken as a Heroes section, the Great Shape vocal session is the first thing recorded for Heroes and Villains but, then not called Heroes and Villains?

The assumption has been made that Great Shape started as its own track; late October/ early November, Brian toys with the idea of using part/all of it as a bridge for Heroes and Villains, then end of November it’s back to being its own track and is listed on the tracklist to Capitol. By the end of November things had been settled for the album according to Vosse, Van Dyke, and maybe Brian, and none of the later stuff for Heroes includes Great Shape, but around the time of the Heroes demo recording things were still in flux (“We’re still working”.)

The idea that “Do A Lot” was part or even all of Great Shape I remember being around before the demo recording turned up in 1998. It was the idea that Great Shape must be a fitness themed track but now we know it has more to do with farming and agriculture like the new found Child vocals. It was kind of a guess, something to take the place of that track because nothing else existed to fill its slot even if it doesn’t make sense since the first known recording of Do A lot doesn’t happen until 67, two and half months after that Great Shape vocal session.

So what was that October I’m in Great Shape vocal session? Either something recorded to one of the previous to Oct 17th recorded titles, acapella vocals, Brian piano track with vocals, or something recorded to some track from an unknown tracking session. Still really a mystery.


Thanks for summing it up like that, even though it just made me really confused.
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
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« Reply #107 on: September 08, 2015, 06:41:07 AM »

Has anyone heard the Durrie Parks acetate of IIGS? The way it's described is much different than what the box has and I am curious if anyone could verify this.
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Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard
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« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2015, 02:46:26 PM »

Has anyone heard the Durrie Parks acetate of IIGS? The way it's described is much different than what the box has and I am curious if anyone could verify this.

I've heard it's part of Heroes. Same lyrics but with H&V instrumentation
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Here are my SMiLE Mixes. All are 2 suite, but still vastly different in several ways. Be on the lookout for another, someday.

Aquarian SMiLE>HERE
Dumb Angel (Olorin Edition)>HERE
Dumb Angel [the Romestamo Cut]>HERE

& This is a new pet project Ive worked on, which combines Fritz Lang's classic film, Metropolis (1927) with The United States of America (1968) as a new soundtrack. More info is in the video description.
The American Metropolitan Circus>HERE
[
zosobird
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« Reply #109 on: July 20, 2016, 02:14:20 PM »

I'm in Great Shape works perfectly without vocals. It makes for a great instrumental. I would use iTunes edit to isolate it from the sessions, but the fadeout wont't allow for it. If anyone could post IIGS as an instrumental here, that would be awesome.

the instrumental IIGS is widely available...it's on the sessions on the box set (several takes) and of course on lots of bootlegs
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leetwall97
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« Reply #110 on: September 08, 2016, 01:49:22 PM »

I'd like to believe that the Friday Night, Barnyard, My Only Sunshine mashup Michael Vosse described was the Barnyard Suite, yet Brian re-wrote Barnyard into the Barnyard BIlly thing. The question is, which one do we use?

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Nile
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« Reply #111 on: November 16, 2016, 05:50:42 AM »

Does anyone of you, guys, know did Dennis's vocal on Sunshine was mixed like that (kind of muddy...) or is ti like that because the only surviving vocal tape is from acetate??
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mike moseley
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« Reply #112 on: November 21, 2016, 03:12:14 AM »

I think that would have be IIGS - only my opinion but seems plausible.

Barnyard Billy was just a throwaway thing Brian said in the 90s.


I'd like to believe that the Friday Night, Barnyard, My Only Sunshine mashup Michael Vosse described was the Barnyard Suite, yet Brian re-wrote Barnyard into the Barnyard BIlly thing. The question is, which one do we use?


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