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Author Topic: TSS - All things DYLW  (Read 32867 times)
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2011, 10:08:31 AM »

To me, the BWPS vocal on this always felt like a backing vocal--it's too boring and monotonal for a Brian Wilson '66 melody, so this makes a lot of sense, though of course we'd like to see how it all goes.
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absinthe_boy
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2011, 12:03:22 PM »

Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

I'm almost positive all the lyrics to RPR 2004 are vintage. I think the story is Brian remembered the melody, couldn't make out the last word(s) on the lyric sheet and called up VDP to confirm.
[/quote

The lyrics are from 1966.

You are correct that Brian started singing the melody on RPR during the time he and Darian were piecing BWPS together. Darian has said that Brian remembered the melody as if it came out of thin air, he just started humming it along to the Worms recording.

They had VDP's written lyrics in the vault but couldn't make out a word....Brian called up VDP who faxed back his copy of the lyric and the missing word was "indians".

Next day, Darian arrives at Brian's house and is greeted by Brian on the porch with the words "Hi Darian. Van Dyke will be here in 15 minutes"....must have been an amazing moment for Darian as that is what got Brian and VDP working together again on the reconstructed SMiLE.
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mammy blue
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2011, 08:55:58 PM »

The snippet in the sessions box is the real Worms melody. I'm certain of it. I'll never hear that song the same way again. Stick that melody line over the group vocals and you're there.
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puni puni
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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2011, 10:00:10 PM »

brians singing it high because that was suppose to be his high part
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2011, 04:01:09 AM »

brians singing it high because that was suppose to be his high part

It's not really that high.
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puni puni
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2011, 05:30:00 AM »

he's in falsetto mode...
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2011, 07:41:30 AM »

Just because he's backed off it a little bit doesn't mean it's high.  The tessitura of the line is roughly along the lines of "Wouldn't it be nice" or something.
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John Stivaktas
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2011, 08:03:29 AM »

Just listened. I was holidng on to a 1% hope that maybe an acetate had turned up with lead vox on, but there you go. Sounds great anyway.

I read somewhere ages ago, an obscure reference no doubt, that possibly Carl did the lead vocals on this track but they may have been wiped over. Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

Sorry, what I meant is that the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon until 2004 when the lyrics were sung on BWPS. I knew they were 1966 lyrics because the following verse below was left out on BWPS:

And as we returned to the East or West Indies
We always got them confused

Similarly to Cabinessence, with the unused 'reconnected telephone' lyrics.
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« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2011, 10:27:31 AM »

not sure why he would be singing an additional vocal.

Why not? Why would he be singing the main melody either?

Maybe he just made up that melody on the spot?

Who knows?
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 10:31:44 AM by Micha » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2011, 10:37:45 AM »

Just listened. I was holidng on to a 1% hope that maybe an acetate had turned up with lead vox on, but there you go. Sounds great anyway.

I read somewhere ages ago, an obscure reference no doubt, that possibly Carl did the lead vocals on this track but they may have been wiped over. Personally, I doubt it ever happened as the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon of course until BWPS in 2003/4.

Sorry, what I meant is that the final verse lyrics weren't decided upon until 2004 when the lyrics were sung on BWPS. I knew they were 1966 lyrics because the following verse below was left out on BWPS:

And as we returned to the East or West Indies
We always got them confused

I think it was "Having returned to...", not "And as we returned to...", and my guess is those lyrics would have been on the "winding down" BR bit before (originally) the fadeout or before (now) the woowoos.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2011, 02:42:13 PM »

not sure why he would be singing an additional vocal.

Why not? Why would he be singing the main melody either?

Why not? Because you typically sing the main melody when singing a song. And why would he be singing it? Because he's testing to see if the tempo is right for the melody, a point that's made perfectly clear from listening to it.

Quote
Maybe he just made up that melody on the spot?

But if you're trying to make sure the tempo is right for the melody, which he is undeniably doing, then you would actually sing the melody rather than make one up.
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adam78
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« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2011, 03:18:16 PM »

the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

i think the fact he calls out to van to check and then sings is significant. it's like he's looking for agreement, so strengthens the case to me that he's singing a genuine melody, rather than made up on the spot!?!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 03:22:29 PM by adam78 » Logged
Tricycle Rider
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« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2011, 12:31:18 AM »

the moment i heard this, i thought, if you follow the timing he sings "once upon the sandwich isles..." you can sing that melody with the rest of the words right through to upon hawaii all in the first line. Drawing out "upon hawaii" and singing it the exact same way they do in BWPS. maybe thats something he remembered in 2004? just start singing the moment the music starts and it works perfectly, isn't rushed and totally in keeping with his descending vocals as per heroes and villains, so it's not even a stretch of an idea that it may have gone like this. of course, who knows?

This is exactly the way i've been hearing this from the first listen. That's the original melody all right!  Smiley

(All of the above IMHO)
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« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2011, 03:08:03 AM »

COPIED from a post of mine on the Hoffman, itself compiled from posts made earlier today here on Smiley. This could equally fit on the "holidays" thread, but I may as well put it here:

Okay, so it may well be crazy time, but...

I'm increasingly convinced that "Holidays" is the original tracking for "Do You Like Worms". Obviously musically the entire song changed for that second version, but the lyrics remained more-or-less in tact.

A link has been suggested between them before, for various reasons, but TSS might actually give us some debatable period evidence that they're actually the same song. If you listen closely to what Brian is singing in this rehearsal for "Holidays" (the first part of the following file):

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/...onstration.mp3

... it sounds to me like Brian begins by singing "Waving Indians behind us".

(I'm quite aware it's probably just me, but my ear's not bad. Also, when I first listened to the file it jumped out at me straight away - and before that it had never even occurred to me that Holidays and Worms might be so strongly connected. The word to listen for is "Indians" (or Iiiiindians; the first syllable is emphasised in the timing) if it helps.)

Yeah, "Waving" should be "Cheering", but it's quite possible he just confused the two similar verbs when running it through. Brian and Van had only been working on the SMiLE lyrics for a couple of weeks at this point, so who knows how long the "Worms/Holidays" lyrics had been around by then?

Indeed, though I'm probably going nuts - and making myself hear what I want to - I think I might even hearing this:

Waving Indians behind us as we
(incomprehensible) East or (incomprehensible) we

Remember those famous lyrics given to Frank Holmes that don't turn up in DYLW proper? Were the lyrics Holmes received from the unexpurgated original version of the song, ie. "Holidays"? If the "East or West Indies" lyrics and others were removed for the rewrite/remount, this would explain why he recalls them while no other participants do, and why the song as we now know it doesn't actually seem to support that section melodically.

Stretching again, there are more musical similarities between the two tracks than may at first appear. Crashing tympani on verse? Check. Vaguely Hawaiian sounding piece towards the end of the song? Check. Slowly winding down piano piece at what seems to be the conclusion of the track, only for a repetitive coda to start up? Check.

Even more subjectively, "Holidays" has a jaunty - almost naval - seafaring feel to the track (echoed out in OAH's much later lyrics) that also fits Parks' '66 lyrics for "Worms", perhaps even more so than the DYLW music we know.

And, try imagining the opening/middle vibraphone (?) sections as the original version of "Bicycle Rider". It's actually easy, and surprisingly satisfying, to fit those lyrics - or "Ribbon of Concrete, see what you've done, done, etc" - over that melody.

(On SS, it was pointed out that in the "Holidays" sessions on the Box Set Brian refers to the bit he plays in that clip as from "the second chorus" - I'd suggest that depending on how you look at it, the vibraphone/"Ribbon of Concrete" sections could be considered verses and the upbeat section a chorus, albeit one with some changing lyrics (ie. the "Once Upon" melody sections and "Rock Plymouth Roll")? Choruses with different words throughout the song weren't all that unusual even in '66, largely thanks to people like Dylan.)

So, here's how this original version might have been structured:

Bicycle Rider/Verse 1-Roll Plymouth Rock/Bicycle Rider/Verse 2-Roll Plymouth Rock/Music Box fake ending/Wahala-lu-lay (to fade)

HOLIDAYS
(Wilson/Parks)

Bicycle Rider, just see what you've done, done... to the church of the American Indian

Waving from the Ocean Liners, beaded
Cheering Indians behind them, as we
Returned to the East or West Indies - we
Always got them confused

Rock, rock, roll, Plymouth Rock
Rock, rock, roll Plymouth Rock, roll over

Ribbon of concrete, just see what you've done
Done to the Church of the American Indian

Once upon the Sandwich Isles, the
Social Structure steamed upon Hawaii - having
Returned to the East or West Indies, we
Always got them confused...

Rock, rock, roll, Plymouth Rock
Rock, rock, roll Plymouth Rock, roll over

Plymouth Rock, roll over...

Mahalo lu le, Mahalo lu la
Keeni waka pula
Mahalo lu le, Mahalo lu la
Keeni waka pula
(repeat to fade)

Circumstantial evidence:

* "Holidays" is tracked in early September, then never gets looked at again, though this is not unique for the era. (A month and a bit later, "Worms" is tracked.) *
* Darian states that Brian spontaneously recalled the "Plymouth Rock" chorus vocals when listening to "Holidays" for BWPS.
*Interestingly, but probably meaninglessly, the original back cover has "Worms" opening the record, followed by "Wind Chimes". "Holidays" is now enshrined as preceding WC, and even uses the coda for a transition between the two.
* "That's not 'Worms'" - Al Jardine hearing the "Worms" backing track decades later. Simple confusion after so many years, and so many pieces recorded for SMiLE? Maybe - and yet we know that Al was particularly fond of "Worms", as there's a vintage '66 interview in which he states a song with "a Hawaiian section" is probably "the best thing we've ever done".
* The name given on the tracking session, "Holidays", is in keeping with with the lyrics thematically: "Waving from the ocean liners" with Indians behind us ("we" are leaving America, not arriving there), "returned to East or West Indies", Hawaiian motif.

And it also reflects the album's concern with the way the casual expansionism of the white man - the Bicycle Rider with his rain of bullets and iron horse - wipes out the culture of those it comes into contact with: unwittingly exploiting, littering and destroying the places it lands... like well-meaning but oblivious tourists on a holiday.

I'm nuts, right? Yeah, I'm nuts.
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The Demon
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« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2011, 07:24:15 AM »

Great post, and a lot to think about.  Like with many Smile songs, there are so many implied/circumstantial connections.  They're easy to see, but hard to prove.  But it wouldn't surprise me if all of this was correct.
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« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2011, 11:42:59 AM »

The connection also has me thinking more about the use of the word "Child" in "On a Holiday."  That used to feel more like a way to connect songs and flesh out BWPS, but I'm wondering if anything like that was actually considered back then as part if a larger theme.  The elements are infused through many other compositions on Smile, and the box only highlights the connection between "Child is Father of the Man" and "Dada"/"Cool Cool Water," which we already knew about.  "Holiday" being about sailing (water), it's not so coincidental that there is a brief "Child" reference.
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lunarjetman
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« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2011, 12:30:35 PM »

It's clear (to me at least) that the melody sung by Brian in the 1967 recording session is the authentic melody for "Worms" and NOT the  melody used in the 2004 recording. The 1967 snippet sounds very Polynesian sounding- like a hula dance.

If you sing that melody over the opening bars of Worms you get a flavour of what the song was supposed to sound like. And its much better than the 2004 version.

Like most of the Smile tracks, I think Worms is VERY incomplete. With rich layers of Beach Boys vocals placed over the top of the backing track segments, I believe that the whole thing would have sounded so much different and so much smoother.  Its's like trying to work out what Good vibrations would have sounded like just by listening to sections of backing track recordings.

A tragedy that neither BW or VDP ever wrote down the Smile music (or recorded demos), meaning that all these great songs are lost for ever.
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trismegistus
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« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2011, 02:18:00 PM »

Great post Holy Bee! It really stimulates the creative process, making you think about the relationships between songs more...and if nothing else, I'm starting to find the idea of Worms opening with Bicycle Rider pretty attractive...gonna have to boot up Audacity and move some things around to see what happens...
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Chris Brown
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« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2011, 04:05:19 PM »

Great post Holy Bee! It really stimulates the creative process, making you think about the relationships between songs more...and if nothing else, I'm starting to find the idea of Worms opening with Bicycle Rider pretty attractive...gonna have to boot up Audacity and move some things around to see what happens...

+1.  That post really has my brain buzzing - crazy or not, when you lay it out like that, the theory makes a lot of sense.
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« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2011, 08:31:33 PM »

Quote
If you sing that melody over the opening bars of Worms you get a flavour of what the song was supposed to sound like. And its much better than the 2004 version.

I can also imagine an awesome 30-minute take of Good Vibrations, full of swirling vocals and theremin solos. It's much better than what was released!
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trismegistus
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« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2011, 08:35:42 PM »

I can also imagine an awesome 30-minute take of Good Vibrations, full of swirling vocals and theremin solos. It's much better than what was released!

I imagined I heard them encore with that at Monterey Pop!!
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Wirestone
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« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2011, 08:38:50 PM »

Quote
I imagined I heard them encore with that at Monterey Pop!!

What was really amazing was when Jimi Hendrix started soloing over Mike's theremin part ...
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Mahalo
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« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2011, 08:41:20 PM »

Was that when Mike Love set fire to the theramin?
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« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »

Holy Bee, what you just did makes no musical sense whatsoever. You should stop.
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Rerun
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« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2011, 09:24:20 PM »

Holy Bee, what you just did makes no musical sense whatsoever. You should stop.


Hahahaha...so true, so true...
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