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Author Topic: The Beatles  (Read 11182 times)
runnersdialzero
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« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2011, 12:06:27 AM »

But The Beatles didn't have an MIU album or Keeping the Summer alive

They didn't have the chance to.
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« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2011, 12:07:30 AM »

The Beach Boys are my second favourite band.

The Beatles are the first. They've been in that position since I was about four years old and I'm sure they'll always be there.

To be honest, I find it somewhat unsettling that the campaign to make the Beach Boys hip again which started in the late 90s and continued throughout the next decade has led to a re-evaluation of the Beatles music. Well, I guess these things can be cyclical - the same opinions were held during the punk era. The Beatles will have their day again.

The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been. They're inescapable, especially in the last couple of years.
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« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2011, 12:11:48 AM »

I think Rubber Soul was the peak for The Beatles.
Sgt. Peppers was maybe the first album I ever recall buying, I had read something in a magazine praising it, so I eagerly bought it. Best album ever? Sign me up. Of course when you're a kid you can only afford to buy something every once in a while, usually with money given to you for your birthday, so whatever you do get, you're stuck with. I remember being pissed after listening to it for the first time, I badly regretted that purchase let me tell you, not a single song even struck me as listenable, save for Mr. Kite, which is probably still the closest I have to a favorite on that record.
I've come to appreciate the album a lot more, but still, it doesn't sound like much to me. For the longest time Within You Without You didn't even register as music with me, but these days I can at least discern something of a song in there. The album sounds kind of nauseating to me, something about the production, it just sounds thin and wiry. Nothing compared to the richness of Brian's production.

After that album I think they just got worse, especially lyrically. I think Paul's character songs are uninteresting, I hate the callowness of them. John's acerbic humor and suicidal nihilism doesn't sit well with me either. It's not that I demand every song be a love song, it's just that I'd rather take a good honest love song over half the stuff on the white album.

I really think all the albums need to be remixed, I thought the boxset was going to be remixes and I was looking forward to hearing the songs in a new light, but I'm sure their saving that for another boxset.
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« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2011, 08:33:14 AM »

Can I ask you a serious question?  Why did you create a thread about a band you don't really like? 
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« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2011, 08:39:58 AM »

I guess over the last month or two I've been listening to them a lot, and just want to hear thoughts and comments from other people.
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« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2011, 08:57:48 AM »

they may have done a Beatle's party but they only saw light on the mad xmas flexi discs.

Actually in one of the myriad of Beatles books I have they compare the "Kinfauns" session favorably to The Beach Boys' "Party!" album.  I think it's a fair comparison given the lighthearted atmosphere in which both sets of recordings were created.
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« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2011, 09:14:03 AM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.
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« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2011, 09:22:12 AM »

Growing up in the 60s, the Beatles and Beach Boys were omnipresent on the radio. But there was so much more great music....The Byrds, The Kinks, The Who, The Stones, The Rascals, The Band, Dylan, Motown, Stax, New Orleans, etc.....This is not to say that any other era is better or worse, but I am attached to that music because it is a part of my growing up. The Beatles will always be a favorite group of mine...Their middle period is my favorite...roughly Rubber Soul through Magical Mystery Tour. The early stuff in mind mind helped reinvigorate rock music, along with The Beach Boys and Motown. Their later stuff is less satisfying to me, Side 2 of Abbey Road being an exception. The Beatles solo stuff is spotty...I own maybe 5 cds total. But so is The Beach Boys' solo stuff...
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« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2011, 10:29:03 AM »

Growing up in the 60s, the Beatles and Beach Boys were omnipresent on the radio. But there was so much more great music....The Byrds, The Kinks, The Who, The Stones, The Rascals, The Band, Dylan, Motown, Stax, New Orleans, etc.....This is not to say that any other era is better or worse, but I am attached to that music because it is a part of my growing up. The Beatles will always be a favorite group of mine...Their middle period is my favorite...roughly Rubber Soul through Magical Mystery Tour. The early stuff in mind mind helped reinvigorate rock music, along with The Beach Boys and Motown. Their later stuff is less satisfying to me, Side 2 of Abbey Road being an exception. The Beatles solo stuff is spotty...I own maybe 5 cds total. But so is The Beach Boys' solo stuff...

I don't know what it is about that era. I was not alive during it but it's the only music I really listen to consistently. Maybe the fact that my parents played it a lot in my formative years in the early 80s, I'm not sure. But overall, I think what makes the music from that time is that it's so culturally significant and there was a lot of ground being discovered in both the rock and roll and R&B genres. Now, because pretty much all the ground has been discovered, there's not much that rock and roll can do that's interesting anymore. It's the same reason that Jazz was best during the Jazz age, not, say, during the 70s or 80s. But as far as finding new territory goes, The Beatles were pretty much at the top of the heap. They were the Magellans of rock and roll.
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« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2011, 11:07:28 AM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

*ridiculously popular and inescapable. There's no "day" for them to have or get back, their "day" has lasted almost fifty years now.
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« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2011, 11:16:10 AM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

*ridiculously popular and inescapable. There's no "day" for them to have or get back, their "day" has lasted almost fifty years now.

But you have to understand what was going on at the height of their popularity, right? They occupied the top five chart positions on the Billboard Top 100. There was a ridiculous amount of Beatles memorabilia being sold. Then in 1967, you had Sgt. Pepper being played just about everywhere. It was the record of the counter-culture.

Again, The Beatles are still popular, there's no doubt about it. But it is simply impossible for a band who stopped making music over 40 years ago to keep up the same level of popularity. That being said, the fact that they have the kind of popularity that they do after 40 years of not playing is astounding and really speaks to the overall relevance of their music.
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« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2011, 12:02:10 PM »

Can I ask you a serious question?  Why did you create a thread about a band you don't really like? 

I wouldn't say I don't really like them. I have a much less rosy assessment of them than many people. Rubber Soul is a fantastic album, probably the closest they came to doing a real perfect album. Revolver too has some real great stuff on it, I'm Only Sleeping is an incredible song, Tomorrow Never Knows too is one of the very best psychedelic songs ever recorded. The SFF/Penny Lane single was groundbreaking, and just awesome all around. Saying that, I don't really understand why people cream themselves over everything they ever did, I would rather listen to The Byrds or Love, I just prefer the LA sound to what The Beatles cooked up at Abbey Road.
But I am interested in the band, I enjoy hearing about them, I think they were interesting personalities who greatly impacted history. So I just wanted to have a discussion on them. Sure I can write about how I don't really like Sgt. Peppers, but I'd also like to read the thoughts of someone who really likes the album, and then I can say "huh," and relisten to the album and maybe appreciate it a little bit more. I don't see anything wrong with that.
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« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2011, 12:18:46 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

*ridiculously popular and inescapable. There's no "day" for them to have or get back, their "day" has lasted almost fifty years now.

But you have to understand what was going on at the height of their popularity, right? They occupied the top five chart positions on the Billboard Top 100. There was a ridiculous amount of Beatles memorabilia being sold. Then in 1967, you had Sgt. Pepper being played just about everywhere. It was the record of the counter-culture.

Again, The Beatles are still popular, there's no doubt about it. But it is simply impossible for a band who stopped making music over 40 years ago to keep up the same level of popularity. That being said, the fact that they have the kind of popularity that they do after 40 years of not playing is astounding and really speaks to the overall relevance of their music.

Roight. I figgered this was all assumed with what I was sayin' considering they haven't existed in decades . imo.
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« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2011, 12:40:00 PM »

Can I ask you a serious question?  Why did you create a thread about a band you don't really like? 

I wouldn't say I don't really like them. I have a much less rosy assessment of them than many people. Rubber Soul is a fantastic album, probably the closest they came to doing a real perfect album. Revolver too has some real great stuff on it, I'm Only Sleeping is an incredible song, Tomorrow Never Knows too is one of the very best psychedelic songs ever recorded. The SFF/Penny Lane single was groundbreaking, and just awesome all around. Saying that, I don't really understand why people cream themselves over everything they ever did, I would rather listen to The Byrds or Love, I just prefer the LA sound to what The Beatles cooked up at Abbey Road.
But I am interested in the band, I enjoy hearing about them, I think they were interesting personalities who greatly impacted history. So I just wanted to have a discussion on them. Sure I can write about how I don't really like Sgt. Peppers, but I'd also like to read the thoughts of someone who really likes the album, and then I can say "huh," and relisten to the album and maybe appreciate it a little bit more. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Fair enough. I just don't know what I can say, though, to make you appreciate the music more. I did find your argument on The White Album in another thread to be unconvincing. But aside from that, I'm not sure. If you would rather listen to The Byrds or Love then I wouldn't fault you for it. They are both great too. I mean I don't quite hear the same consistency in either band as I do with The Beatles. So far the only Byrds album that has grabbed me as a whole work is Sweetheart of the Rodeo but I do have Tambourine Man, Younger Than Yesterday, The Notorious Byrd Brothers. Forever Changes is a great whole work too. I like Da Capo but I never listen to Revelation and that takes up so much space. My favourite California band after The Beach Boys might actually be The Monkees, come to think of it. Buffalo Springfield is pretty awesome too.
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« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2011, 01:04:57 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

Actually more popular if you look at sales figures from the '90s on.  Just an example: my kids were raised with a myriad of musical influences, but yet, on their own picked the Beatles as their faves.  They couldn't give a toss about the Beach Boys, although I played tons of Beach Boys for them when they were growing up.

By October 1972, the Beatlesí worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units. To date The Beatles record sales are over 2.3 billion units worldwide.  That means MOST of the sales have been since they broke up.  So, yes, they are still popular, if not MORE.
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« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2011, 01:20:03 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

Actually more popular if you look at sales figures from the '90s on.  Just an example: my kids were raised with a myriad of musical influences, but yet, on their own picked the Beatles as their faves.  They couldn't give a toss about the Beach Boys, although I played tons of Beach Boys for them when they were growing up.

By October 1972, the Beatlesí worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units. To date The Beatles record sales are over 2.3 billion units worldwide.  That means MOST of the sales have been since they broke up.  So, yes, they are still popular.

+1
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« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2011, 02:35:59 PM »

This "Beatles Vs. Beach Boys" debate is flogging a dead horse.  Hands down the Beatles win in: cultural impact, music impact, musical legacy and sales.

I know, I know...it is very popular these days to play "musical-history-revisionalism" by "bashing Sgt. Pepper" ad nauseam and trying to downplay the cultural impact the album had in 1967 (as well as their other albums) - but most of these revisionalists weren't even born until decades after the '60s, so they have no point of reference.  It's like watching a few newsreels from the '20s and suddenly becoming an "expert" on the "roaring '20s".

That being said, I think that Brian Wilson is the better at overall musical composition in terms of inventiveness. And that, my friends, will be proven over time.   
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« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2011, 02:45:02 PM »

This "Beatles Vs. Beach Boys" debate is flogging a dead horse.  Hands down the Beatles win in: cultural impact, music impact, musical legacy and sales.

While there's importance to that, what ultimately matters more to me is who had the better songs. Yeah, I know you kinda said the same thing a bit later, but still.
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« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2011, 03:02:25 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

*ridiculously popular and inescapable. There's no "day" for them to have or get back, their "day" has lasted almost fifty years now.

But you have to understand what was going on at the height of their popularity, right? They occupied the top five chart positions on the Billboard Top 100. There was a ridiculous amount of Beatles memorabilia being sold. Then in 1967, you had Sgt. Pepper being played just about everywhere. It was the record of the counter-culture.

Again, The Beatles are still popular, there's no doubt about it. But it is simply impossible for a band who stopped making music over 40 years ago to keep up the same level of popularity. That being said, the fact that they have the kind of popularity that they do after 40 years of not playing is astounding and really speaks to the overall relevance of their music.

Yeah, I agree.  They're not AAAAAAAAAAIIIEIEEEEEE SHJRRRRIIIIEEEEKKKKKK JOOHHHHNNNNNN!!!! in the middle of Shea stadium popular anymore.  Nothing's that popular.  Lady Ga Ga's not THAT popular.
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« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2011, 03:06:09 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

Actually more popular if you look at sales figures from the '90s on.  Just an example: my kids were raised with a myriad of musical influences, but yet, on their own picked the Beatles as their faves.  They couldn't give a toss about the Beach Boys, although I played tons of Beach Boys for them when they were growing up.

By October 1972, the Beatlesí worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units. To date The Beatles record sales are over 2.3 billion units worldwide.  That means MOST of the sales have been since they broke up.  So, yes, they are still popular, if not MORE.

Hmmm.  Actually, they sold more while they were together.  If you're using 1972 as the end date for your figure, and starting in what, 1963?  That would mean in 9 years they sold 545 million units.  Keep up that pace, and they would have sold 2.9 Billon records up to now.  They haven't though, they've fallen short, only selling 2.3 billion units, lol.  So they are popular of course, but demonstrably not as popular as those numbers you just gave show.  (I know, I know, i'm just nitpicking)

Edit: I'm thinking it's more like 10 years which makes the math easier, by October 2012 they need to 2.7 billion records to be as popular consistantly.  I guess if you take into account that they didn't sell many records for about 15 years in the 70's and early 80's they've probably been selling at a faster rate than in the 60's for th epast 10 or 15 years to catch up. 
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« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2011, 03:09:10 PM »

Who produces themselves to sound like The Beatles? Mercury Rev, My Bloody Valentine, Animal Collective? Brian Wilson hands down was the better producer. In terms of composition I think The Beatles won, there are more bands with songs that sound like Beatles songs than Brian Wilson songs. Wilson had a really idiosyncratic style of composition, Andy Partridge for example said Pale and Precious was the hardest song to do on The Dukes album.
So I guess we have songs written like Beatles songs, produced like Brian Wilson songs.
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« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2011, 03:12:33 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

Actually more popular if you look at sales figures from the '90s on.  Just an example: my kids were raised with a myriad of musical influences, but yet, on their own picked the Beatles as their faves.  They couldn't give a toss about the Beach Boys, although I played tons of Beach Boys for them when they were growing up.

By October 1972, the Beatlesí worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units. To date The Beatles record sales are over 2.3 billion units worldwide.  That means MOST of the sales have been since they broke up.  So, yes, they are still popular, if not MORE.

Hmmm.  Actually, they sold more while they were together.  If you're using 1972 as the end date for your figure, and starting in what, 1963?  That would mean in 9 years they sold 545 million units.  Keep up that pace, and they would have sold 2.9 Billon records up to now.  They haven't though, they've fallen short, only selling 2.3 billion units, lol.  So they are popular of course, but demonstrably not as popular as those numbers you just gave show.  (I know, I know, i'm just nitpicking)

Thanks, Ron. Furthermore, you have to take into account the fact that the number of global record buyers of Western music expanded signficantly after 1972 aswell as releases like The Red Album, The Blue Album, highly publicized comps like Love Songs, and Rock & Roll, the three Beatles anthologies, 1, the whole collection re-released on CD twice. There have been a lot of releases to keep those sales numbers up. It's just not a very good reflection of The Beatles popularity in comparison to the sort of popularity they had while they were still together.
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« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2011, 03:13:14 PM »

This "Beatles Vs. Beach Boys" debate is flogging a dead horse.  Hands down the Beatles win in: cultural impact, music impact, musical legacy and sales.

While there's importance to that, what ultimately matters more to me is who had the better songs. Yeah, I know you kinda said the same thing a bit later, but still.

Ahh, but "who had the better songs" is very personal.   While you and I both know of Brian's talent and "timelessness" - you simply cannot force someone to like something, neither can you go back in time and make Brian finish Smile in 1967.  When it comes to exposing people to the Beach Boys, you gotta take the approach of the old saying, "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".   Just play them the music - you'll be surprised how effective this is!  People are turned off by music snobs (not that I am calling you one, mind you!) that make broad, absolute statements that make a person feel like you are degrading their tastes.  You gotta make them feel that they, themselves just made a discovery.

I myself have converted more people to the Beach Boys by just playing their music and not saying ANYTHING.  I can't tell you how many times I've had a Smile tune playing in the background and someone says, "Wow! who is that?!"  Which is usually followed by, "Can you burn me a copy of Smile?" (THEN, you give them a brief history lesson of the Beach Boys)
 
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« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2011, 03:22:34 PM »


The Beatles are about as popular as they've ever been.

No. They are not.

But they are still popular.

Actually more popular if you look at sales figures from the '90s on.  Just an example: my kids were raised with a myriad of musical influences, but yet, on their own picked the Beatles as their faves.  They couldn't give a toss about the Beach Boys, although I played tons of Beach Boys for them when they were growing up.

By October 1972, the Beatlesí worldwide sales total stood at 545 million units. To date The Beatles record sales are over 2.3 billion units worldwide.  That means MOST of the sales have been since they broke up.  So, yes, they are still popular, if not MORE.

Hmmm.  Actually, they sold more while they were together.  If you're using 1972 as the end date for your figure, and starting in what, 1963?  That would mean in 9 years they sold 545 million units.  Keep up that pace, and they would have sold 2.9 Billon records up to now.  They haven't though, they've fallen short, only selling 2.3 billion units, lol.  So they are popular of course, but demonstrably not as popular as those numbers you just gave show.  (I know, I know, i'm just nitpicking)

Thanks, Ron. Furthermore, you have to take into account the fact that the number of global record buyers of Western music expanded signficantly after 1972 aswell as releases like The Red Album, The Blue Album, the three Beatles anthologies, 1, the whole collection re-released on CD twice. There have been a lot of releases to keep those sales numbers up. It's just not a very good reflection of The Beatles popularity in comparison to the sort of popularity they had while they were still together.

But again, my point remains that they are popular. So, as Michael Palin once said, this isn't an argument.

Yup I just felt like being a math nerd, they're obviously very popular.  Ask Michael Jackson.  Ergh... ask Michael Jackson's kids. 
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« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2011, 03:33:38 PM »

Who produces themselves to sound like The Beatles? Mercury Rev, My Bloody Valentine, Animal Collective? Brian Wilson hands down was the better producer.

I think Brian Wilson is probably my favourite producer, but hands down? Over George Martin? I think you'd find many people, and many in the music business and in music scholarship for that matter, who would find such a sweeping statement to be a tad on the ridiculous side. That's probably why Martin has received so many honourary degrees from prestigious music institutions.
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