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Author Topic: The "Leila Revelation"  (Read 66348 times)
Jason
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« Reply #175 on: October 05, 2011, 04:09:26 PM »

I know Jack Schitt. He's a close, personal friend of mine. Jack is the only son of Awe Schitt and O. Schitt. Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, married O. Schitt, the owner of Knee-deep Schitt, Inc. Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt and they had 6 children: Holie Schitt, The twins; Deep Schitt and Dip Schitt, Fulla Schitt, Giva Schitt and Bull Schitt. Jack and Noe divorced. Noe later married Mr. Sherlock and because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock. Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt and they had Chicken Schitt. Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt married the Happens brothers in a dual ceremony. The Schitt-Happens children are Dawg, Byrd and Horse. Bull Schitt left home to tour the world. He recently returned with his new bride, Pisa Schitt.


OK, 'nuff trolling! What was this thread about again?
 

This was the laugh I needed all day. Kudos, brother.
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« Reply #176 on: October 05, 2011, 04:39:24 PM »

I know Jack Schitt. He's a close, personal friend of mine. Jack is the only son of Awe Schitt and O. Schitt. Awe Schitt, the fertilizer magnate, married O. Schitt, the owner of Knee-deep Schitt, Inc. Jack Schitt married Noe Schitt and they had 6 children: Holie Schitt, The twins; Deep Schitt and Dip Schitt, Fulla Schitt, Giva Schitt and Bull Schitt. Jack and Noe divorced. Noe later married Mr. Sherlock and because her kids were living with them, she wanted to keep her previous name. She was known as Noe Schitt-Sherlock. Dip Schitt married Loda Schitt and they had Chicken Schitt. Fulla Schitt and Giva Schitt married the Happens brothers in a dual ceremony. The Schitt-Happens children are Dawg, Byrd and Horse. Bull Schitt left home to tour the world. He recently returned with his new bride, Pisa Schitt.


OK, 'nuff trolling! What was this thread about again?
 

Are they related to the whole dam family?

How's THAT for an obscure reference  Grin
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« Reply #177 on: October 05, 2011, 09:11:23 PM »


It would make perfect sense to think that the lead was recorded in some fashion in '66, either by Brian as a demo or by Carl as a shot at actually recording it.  Much like "Worms," somebody must have taken a stab at it at some point.  Why record literally everything else but the lead?

You could ask the same thing of Barnyard and Child is the Father of the Man. I think one of the great tragedies of Smile being abandoned is the fact that there is absolutely no record of lyrics or melody for the latter song though I can't imagine that they weren't written.

I used to be of this opinion, but I'm not anymore.  Brian has certainly been known to track a song before the lyrics were written, and I really can't imagine that Van Dyke Parks could have written a lyric for the song and then forgotten it entirely.  Van Dyke seems like a pretty lucid guy, and I think if he had written lyrics for The Child is the Father of the Man, he would have mentioned at some point or another that "oh, we wrote lyrics for that one, don't know what happened to them" or something along those lines.  Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that the man hasn't been asked outright, given the number of people who would want to know.  The real tragedy in my opinion isn't that we lost the lyrics, its that we lost the melody.  Because that much more likely was written, or at least, Brian probably had some idea of how it would go.  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.
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Iron Horse-Apples
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« Reply #178 on: October 06, 2011, 12:23:24 AM »

  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.
I feel the same. All those lost melodies, that he could just toss out of thin during this period.
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« Reply #179 on: October 06, 2011, 12:27:52 AM »


It would make perfect sense to think that the lead was recorded in some fashion in '66, either by Brian as a demo or by Carl as a shot at actually recording it.  Much like "Worms," somebody must have taken a stab at it at some point.  Why record literally everything else but the lead?

You could ask the same thing of Barnyard and Child is the Father of the Man. I think one of the great tragedies of Smile being abandoned is the fact that there is absolutely no record of lyrics or melody for the latter song though I can't imagine that they weren't written.

I used to be of this opinion, but I'm not anymore.  Brian has certainly been known to track a song before the lyrics were written, and I really can't imagine that Van Dyke Parks could have written a lyric for the song and then forgotten it entirely.  Van Dyke seems like a pretty lucid guy, and I think if he had written lyrics for The Child is the Father of the Man, he would have mentioned at some point or another that "oh, we wrote lyrics for that one, don't know what happened to them" or something along those lines.  Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that the man hasn't been asked outright, given the number of people who would want to know.  The real tragedy in my opinion isn't that we lost the lyrics, its that we lost the melody.  Because that much more likely was written, or at least, Brian probably had some idea of how it would go.  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.

Memories fade.  If VDP denied writing 'Child' lyrics in, say, 1969, that might be convincing.  But 37-45 years later?  People forget stuff.  I can barely remember some projects that I worked on 10 years ago.  VDP has denied that he wrote the lyrics the "He Give Speeches," but if he didn't, who did?

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.
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« Reply #180 on: October 06, 2011, 01:00:28 AM »

The Dennis version was supposedly a wild west song. I feel like that can't be true. There must have been a mix up on the names.
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« Reply #181 on: October 06, 2011, 01:01:07 AM »

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.

I know these reels have been discussed a lot, but why are they "unfindable" ? Lost ? Erased ? Copyrights ? I mean, Alan Boyd and Mark Linett maybe could've done some research this way ... I mean: they didn't ? they found nothing ? they found things but not the whole stuff ? they couldn't manage to clear the rights for use, etc, etc, etc ....

Is there an expert of the "Inside Pop" affair who could explain ? Thanks.
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« Reply #182 on: October 06, 2011, 01:04:21 AM »

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.

I know these reels have been discussed a lot, but why are they "unfindable" ? Lost ? Erased ? Copyrights ? I mean, Alan Boyd and Mark Linett maybe could've done some research this way ... I mean: they didn't ? they found nothing ? they found things but not the whole stuff ? they couldn't manage to clear the rights for use, etc, etc, etc ....

Is there an expert of the "Inside Pop" affair who could explain ? Thanks.

I've really wondered this as well. Picking up the thread seems impossible. There was a thread a while back where the actually found where the reels were supposed to have been, but they were gone, and a log sheet or something said "returned on such and such date". Returned to who? Returned to the archive? Returned to someone external who claimed them? Is it possible they are still there, but were just put back in the wrong place?
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« Reply #183 on: October 06, 2011, 01:09:14 AM »

There was a thread a while back where the actually found where the reels were supposed to have been, but they were gone |...] Is it possible they are still there, but were just put back in the wrong place?

Yeah, I remember having seen this thread or at least similar info here or on another board/site.

The only thing that seems odd to me is that nobody seems to be in the power to investigate properly, not even Mr. Boyd or Linett.  Huh
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« Reply #184 on: October 06, 2011, 03:00:59 AM »

There was a thread a while back where the actually found where the reels were supposed to have been, but they were gone |...] Is it possible they are still there, but were just put back in the wrong place?

Yeah, I remember having seen this thread or at least similar info here or on another board/site.

The only thing that seems odd to me is that nobody seems to be in the power to investigate properly, not even Mr. Boyd or Linett.  Huh

The problem, so far as I see it, isn't that no one has the power to investigate properly.  It's that the reels aren't in any of the places their supposed to be.  So at that point, its like, to make an analogy, trying to find a book in the library.  If it's not shelved where its call number is, good luck ever finding it. It might be there in the stacks somewhere, and someone might even run across it some day, but you're not going to find it yourself. Now imagine that you don't even know what library it's in. That you don't even know if the tapes survived the 60s to begin with!  There's just no way to find something like that once its been misplaced from the finding aid that refers to the collection. It's like looking for a needle in a haystack the size of the empire state building. 

On the bright side, I think there's a shot it may turn up in the next twenty years, as more and more libraries and archives are digitized, because digitizing a tape library requires actually going through every single item in it, and undergoing such a process might turn up things that have been mis-shelved or otherwise misplaced.  Effectively, a new finding aid has been created for the collection, and so access is restored.
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« Reply #185 on: October 06, 2011, 03:10:56 AM »

… assuming the tape hasn't deteriorated in the meantime?
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« Reply #186 on: October 06, 2011, 04:50:18 AM »

We're all right to wonder why all this stuff hasn't been found, but whenever I start thinking about this, I remember one thing: money. Having someone look for this stuff costs lots and lots of money. And ask yourself - would you look for SMiLE tapes in libraries all day long for absolutely no recompense at all? Whenever I ask myself that, I have to be honest and say no, not unless I had money coming in from some other source that wasn't affected by me being off doing the tape searches. I might have done it when I was a student and had more time and fewer money worries, but even then, if I had been expected to carry out the searches all the time, my studies would have suffered.

So there has to be money to pay someone to do this stuff. And with the current state of the record industry, in practice, there is only money if a relevant release is planned, and even then, the money available will not be limitless. Paying someone to go through, say, the entire Capitol archive (hundreds of thousands of tapes), on the off-chance that some misfiled Beach Boys SMiLE tapes might be in there somewhere is simply never going to happen. And with the record industry flatlining, it becomes even *less* likely every year.

Which is why I thank the stars we're getting the box set now. In another few years - hell, maybe in another couple of MONTHS if EMI is sold again to someone who cares even less about the company's legacy - it might not have happened. But it IS happening. And not a moment too soon.

Even imagining for a moment that you had no money worries for some reason, and you were engaged to carry out such a task, just imagine what it might be like. I'm sure we'd like to think that we'd stroll into an old archive somewhere and the May 11 '66 H&V tracking would be the fourth tape we pulled out. And of course, that could happen, if you were almost *unbelievably* lucky... but it would be far more likely to be an extremely tedious, repetitive, and unrewarding process. Pinky and Perky outtakes, innumerable tedious jazz sessions, horrible old adverts, and politicians arguing. It could be a tedium worse than death itself.

The exception, of course, would be if we were being asked to undertake not merely a search of all sorts of massive international archives where Beach Boys tapes *might*have ended up, but the Beach Boys' tape archive itself. I imagine many of us might well drop all sorts of commitments to do that. In that case, almost everything you had to listen to would probably be interesting in some way (yes, even the sessions for the Battle Hymn of The Republic or Ding Dang).

But of course, the Beach Boys already have someone in that job...!
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« Reply #187 on: October 06, 2011, 06:02:11 AM »

I really believe the problem is that some one of a kind material are in the hands of private collectors.  Both Mark and Alan have conceded as much. Hey, I've heard Smile material that I'm sure won't be in the Box Set (ie Jungle music).

I've got a feeling after the box set is released, some new material will miraculousy show up.

The Smile Sessions Redux?
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« Reply #188 on: October 06, 2011, 06:13:50 AM »

But if whoever has this material wouldn't spill it for the box set, why would it be in their interest to spill it after the box set comes out?

Before compilation of the set, they might (with emphasis on the uncertain nature of the word might) have been able to get some money for it. Afterwards, that chance falls to nothing.

And if they wouldn't spill it for *any* sum of money, but just feel all superior about the fact that THEY are the only people who know (for example) the true nature of Surf's Up part 2 or whatever, then the release of the box set will do nothing to make them feel that they should now share their little piece of history with everyone else.

Unless, of course, they did it out of some kind of spite.

And of course, in ALL of the above possibilities, the collectors in question would have to be eejits of the first water, with not a single redeeming feature to their names. And that's me putting it politely...!

By the way, what is 'Jungle Music'? Care to share more details, MJP? Or indeed anyone out there who knows what this is?
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« Reply #189 on: October 06, 2011, 06:20:54 AM »

Jungle Music?  I only heard it once over the phone along with a snippet of the Brian/VDP composing tape for SOS.  It sounded exactly like jungle music.  Drums, strange sounds that I always felt would have somehow ended up in "The Elements".  A distant cousin of "Fire".

I can't wait to hear Surf's Up (1967).  But excuse me this a "Wild Honey" outtake not Smile material.

Where's Priore's finished 67 Surf's Up that he has written about?  Or what it strictly BS?
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« Reply #190 on: October 06, 2011, 06:25:26 AM »

  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.
I feel the same. All those lost melodies, that he could just toss out of thin during this period.


He's written millions of other songs in parallel universes. Millions of awesome '66 BW melodies exist in other universes. I'd like to go to one of these some day. Maybe if I became immortal and jumped into a wormhole somewhere in the future.
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« Reply #191 on: October 06, 2011, 06:30:24 AM »


It would make perfect sense to think that the lead was recorded in some fashion in '66, either by Brian as a demo or by Carl as a shot at actually recording it.  Much like "Worms," somebody must have taken a stab at it at some point.  Why record literally everything else but the lead?

You could ask the same thing of Barnyard and Child is the Father of the Man. I think one of the great tragedies of Smile being abandoned is the fact that there is absolutely no record of lyrics or melody for the latter song though I can't imagine that they weren't written.

I used to be of this opinion, but I'm not anymore.  Brian has certainly been known to track a song before the lyrics were written, and I really can't imagine that Van Dyke Parks could have written a lyric for the song and then forgotten it entirely.  Van Dyke seems like a pretty lucid guy, and I think if he had written lyrics for The Child is the Father of the Man, he would have mentioned at some point or another that "oh, we wrote lyrics for that one, don't know what happened to them" or something along those lines.  Frankly, I find it hard to imagine that the man hasn't been asked outright, given the number of people who would want to know.  The real tragedy in my opinion isn't that we lost the lyrics, its that we lost the melody.  Because that much more likely was written, or at least, Brian probably had some idea of how it would go.  And a 1966 Brian Wilson melody is an irreplaceable treasure, worth more than just about anything.  Many people have written good lyrics, lyrics better than anything on Smile.  But very, very few in the history of humanity are the people who can compose a song like Brian Wilson could in 1966.   imho.

Memories fade.  If VDP denied writing 'Child' lyrics in, say, 1969, that might be convincing.  But 37-45 years later?  People forget stuff.  I can barely remember some projects that I worked on 10 years ago.  VDP has denied that he wrote the lyrics the "He Give Speeches," but if he didn't, who did?

I'm afraid that the last-ditch, one-in-a-million longshot hope for any developments on "Child" would be discovery of the "Inside Pop" audio for Reel #75 which contained some sort of rendition of the song.  Of course, a one-in-ten-million would be discovery of an audio recording from the interview when Dennis did a piano demo of the song.


There is evidence, however, that echoes of this material exists. When I interviewed Darian after the BWPS debut, he explained how he had examined Carl Wilson's vocal on a multi-track of 'Child is Father of the Man' culled from the archives. He further isolated the headphone bleed from this track and was able to discern unheard backing tracks and vocal parts. (the full article is here: http://www.earcandymag.com/smileliveRFH2-21-04.htm )

Now, that tells us that, although a lead may have then been lost, one had been recorded. It may well be the case that it, or a portion of it, has turned up for TSS. Or if not, it's possible that some other artefact (maybe to do with Inside Pop) exists. BWPS gave us a recovery and re-interpretation of that artefact, and maybe through some digital wizardry, another representation of that evidence may come to light.
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homeontherange
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« Reply #192 on: October 06, 2011, 06:30:29 AM »

Jungle Music?  I only heard it once over the phone along with a snippet of the Brian/VDP composing tape for SOS.  It sounded exactly like jungle music.  Drums, strange sounds that I always felt would have somehow ended up in "The Elements".  A distant cousin of "Fire".


Wow! So this is a Smile outtake? How many people have heard this, and who played it for you?
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« Reply #193 on: October 06, 2011, 06:39:09 AM »

Prior to their bust, Vigotone was working on a Smile Box.  Supposedly and I stress supposedly the Jungle music tape would have been on it.

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.
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« Reply #194 on: October 06, 2011, 06:40:28 AM »

Quote
Van Dyke seems like a pretty lucid guy, and I think if he had written lyrics for The Child is the Father of the Man, he would have mentioned at some point or another that "oh, we wrote lyrics for that one, don't know what happened to them" or something along those lines.

He did.  I just wish I could remember where.  Hopefully someone can back me up, but I swear Van Dyke said (shortly after BWPS) that they were written, but lost.  Hence the new lyrics.  Or else I'm going crazy.

Some cool stuff from Soundonsound.com.  Possible extra vocals on the box:

Quote
Mark Linett explains: "When he's not singing, you can hear faint background vocal parts that no longer exist on the multitrack. They must have been in his headphones, and were picked up by the vocal mic. It could be that Brian decided he didn't need them, or that he was going to re-record them, but never did. You hear this sort of stuff throughout the tapes."

And

Quote
Darian: "Part of Brian's insecurity was the fact that some of SMiLE was risky, you know... uncommercial. Take the 'Workshop' section, with all the power tools playing. Brian wasn't sure about including that, but Van Dyke said, 'We must have courage, my friend,' and so it went in."

Too bad Van Dyke left Smile.  He probably would've pressured Brian to just finish and release the thing.

For anyone annoyed at "Fall Breaks" vocals on "Fire":

Quote
More discoveries were made as SMiLE was being assembled. When Brian's confidence was judged high enough to listen to 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow', a dischordant, frightening piece of music that had severely unnerved him even back in 1966, Darian was amazed to hear him humming along to it. And it sounded familiar...

Also known as 'Fire', 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow' (named after the farmyard beast that supposedly caused the Great Chicago Fire of 1871 by kicking over a lantern) shares chordal similarities with 'Fall Breaks And Back To Winter', a recording that made it onto the later, much simplified Beach Boys album Smiley Smile. Unlike the incomplete 'Fire', though, 'Fall Breaks...' has vocals, and it was the melody line of these that Brian was singing. "It just made so much sense," says Darian. "'Fall Breaks...' is a reworking of 'Mrs O'Leary's Cow'. It's the same chords, just a different arrangement." The vocal harmonies were duly restored to the live arrangement for 'Fire'.
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« Reply #195 on: October 06, 2011, 06:54:34 AM »

Quote
Mark Linett explains: "When he's not singing, you can hear faint background vocal parts that no longer exist on the multitrack. They must have been in his headphones, and were picked up by the vocal mic. It could be that Brian decided he didn't need them, or that he was going to re-record them, but never did. You hear this sort of stuff throughout the tapes."

That conforms with what Darian told me about CIFOTM. I really hope that there's some detail about this material in the booklet, and hopefully on TSS a few attempts at 'excavating' a few examples. You can't isolate that kind of bleed and exclude the b/g vocal, like the movies would have you believe.   But you'd think that there would be a lead-bleed with no b/g vocal extant somewhere on the tapes, where a brief snippet of a lost lead could be showcased.

What would be really fantastic, would be some kind of nerds-only web release on the anniversary of TSS release date with that kind of stuff on it. 
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« Reply #196 on: October 06, 2011, 07:15:06 AM »

A little story.  Rumour has it that all the vigotone tapes/cds that were confiscated by the FBI were put in a secure location for potention further reference.

The secure location?

The World Trade Center.

 Shocked
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« Reply #197 on: October 06, 2011, 07:19:13 AM »

President Obama should have used United States Special Forces to recover all SMiLE material worldwide in the world from those hoarders. Cool Guy It just makes me angry that people are so greedy with their collections of SMiLE pieces that they won't let them be used as intended, as parts of wonderous musical experience. Hell they probably just won't give them back because they got them illegally.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 07:37:33 AM by SMiLE Brian » Logged

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« Reply #198 on: October 06, 2011, 07:28:47 AM »

I recall well the fabled stories of headphone bleed, but if all the folks who've heard the box are to be believed, none of that has made it to the set. Look supposedly has just a couple of sparse vocals, and CIFOTM just an extra harmony or something, right? And I think those were the only two tracks where headphone bleed was mentioned...
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Jason
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« Reply #199 on: October 06, 2011, 07:30:22 AM »

President Obama should have used United States Special Forces to recover all SMiLE material worldwide in the world from those hoarders. Cool Guy

Nothing like misappropriation of resources. Smiley
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