The "Leila Revelation"

[Matt Bielewicz]

Thanks, Andrew, apology accepted!

Matt

[Mikie]

Nevertheless, someone years ago on the old SMiLE Shop board managed to do it, and completely isolate Dennis's vocals using this method (or one very like it). I think his name was Paul, and if I remember rightly, all copies of the isolated 'Truck Driving Man' rap originate from the heroic, time-consuming work he did to phase-cancel the backing. He did it very, very well, as the result was a completely isolated Dennis vocal with no bits of backing left in it at all. It's a very hard thing to do, that, and I don't think I ever thanked him. So if you're reading this, Paul, thanks. Several years too late, but thanks!

That's one of my all-time favorite isolated vocals. I remember way back when that was offered at the SmileShop. That was so cool that Paul (or whoever it was) was able to do that. I remember in the mid 70's doing what they call "oopsing" (out of phase) to Beach Boys songs and hearing some of the Cabinessence vocal(s) isolated. The "boing boing boing" part at the beginning, which I think was later released on the Good Vibrations box if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, "The Truck Drivin' Man" part is very cool. I'd read the lyrics in the Leaf book, but never heard them clearly sung by Dennis because it was weaving out of the mix on the final release. Very mysterious until the words were isolated. That part should be on the new Smile box set, definately!

[Aegir]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dje0M5b_9M

Here's a youtube video where Dennis's part not isolated but significantly louder than the rest of the song.

[RadBooley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dje0M5b_9M

Here's a youtube video where Dennis's part not isolated but significantly louder than the rest of the song.

Good find-- that's probably the first time I've ever been able to actually make out those words.

[Chris Brown]

Very interesting discussion, and excellent detective work Matt and JMZ. 

As guitarfool said, the placement is too perfect to be an accident - if I may hazard a guess (and I think this was suggested earlier in the thread), perhaps this was an intentional addition based on a contemporary Brian experimental test edit.  Either that, or what we're hearing is a contemporary edit of Brian's that they found, and they thought it might be interesting to use, even though it was ultimately discarded by the group when they completed the song in '68.

[Dunderhead]

There was another post on Hoffman:


"Wow, what a reception, well, B warned me that fans of the original Smile can be a bit crabby… and he should know I can't believe how much got posted over the weekend! I only ever post on forums from work, wasn't anyone out enjoying the sunshine this weekend... Anyway, lunch time at work. Time for another post.

So I've been catching up with everything everyone asked since Friday afternoon. I had to show B the questions actually, he's the expert. And yes, there _is_ a reason why he's not posting here directly, but prefers to send stuff through me. But he is a real guy, his name is a bit like a shopping centre in North London. And he won't let me say any more than that! As for S, we could get him in trouble if we said any more about _his_ name, let's just say he's from north of the border. But we had a good laugh about how everyone thought what we were writing had to be BS, because my two friends are called B and S. B just said "tell 'em truth is stranger than fiction, Leila". And he's right!

It also feels like you've all been having a big laugh at how little I know what I'm talking about. Well, I know I probably didn't describe all the song names right and all that stuff, but as I said, I got taken to see smile live a few years ago and I really liked it so I bought the CD. That's the version I know, end of. I never heard any of the 60s stuff until the other night really (B bluetoothed a couple of tracks to my phone once, but I thought they sounded just like the versions from my CD, so I deleted them). After listening to the CD a bit, though, I got more curious and starting asking B questions and he told me about all the stories from when it was recorded, like the stuff with the Fire and Brian Wilson going mad and the Beatles eating carrots in the studios and all that. The thing is, the 60s are like anceint history to me, they're way before my time guys! How am I supposed to know all this stuff?

Anyway, here's what B sent to me to include in this post! I hope you enjoy the info, particularly Mr Pornmower who doesnt seem to think we exist!

Leila x

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

dvakman, regarding H&V Parts I & II: I didn't get to hear that yet. I was more interested in the Sessions discs to start with, and S has H&V I and II on another stream, the one for the two-disc version, so it wasn't immediately available. I keep meaning to go back round S's for another listen, but that won't happen for a few days, as I'm busy with parliamentary work. I have asked S about it over the weekend, though. S says it's basically the old Cantina mix from the twofer, and Part 2 is basically some of the sections mix from Gee onwards. I hope to get more info on that next time I see S.

Tristero, Child Is Father of the Man is like an old mix I heard on a boot years ago, except that it opens with the same piano section as the version from the Sea Of Tunes single-disc SMiLE set. After that, it's not like BWPS at all. It's the piano section with the bass, then the chorus, then the verse, then the second chorus. And the new vocals on the second chorus are all that's different - there's an extra high descending 'Father Of The Man'. There are no verse vocals. And I didn't hear Brian's original mono mix anywhere on the set. I didn't hear the Child sessions the other day, but like Andrew Doe says, you can tell from the timings that the mono mix isn't going to be there. The Brian mono mix of Wind Chimes doesn't seem to have been used either The mix on Disc 1 (after the Holidays/Whispering winds crossfade, ugh) takes the verses from the second version re-record, but the rest of the track from the chorus onwards is from the first version, as heard on the Sea Of Tunes boots, and like BWPS. The track doesn't fade out after the tinkling piano bridge, like on Brian's mix.

Olsen - there's no cough in DYLW. That's one part you'll have to add back.

Mr Schneider (wer sind _Sie_ den uberhaupt?), I Don't Know is great, sure, but it's short and sounds like it was supposed to be a bridge or an edit fragment for something else to me. Like Lonely Days was, probably

Jeff64 and CelticBob: the piano from the November 66 H&V demo is still in Great Shape and Barnyard, and it's Very obvious when it disappears, which is one of the reasons I don't like it. It's worse on Barnyard than on Shape because there's already some piano on Shape for it to join in with. There's no piano on Barnyard so when it goes, you really notice it afterwards!

Michael Papelian - there are different versions of "Bells and Whistles" on the set, including the early one from the Heroes and Villains sessions, but I didn't hear a Bells and Whistles version of With Me Tonight. In fact there's only one version of With Me Tonight on this set, and I don't know which one it is yet. I didn't hear any toothbrushing sounds on Vega-Tables either…

Buddhat - Great Shape and barnyard are sort of joined via the tape explosion, but it never gets as big and 'explody' as it did on the Cantina mix of H&V and on some of the three takes of Great Shape that made it out on boot, nor is there a crossfade between them. Great shape sort of half goes into a weaker explosion, then fades, and then Barnyard starts.

Jeff64, having briefly scanned through the Wonderful sessions last week, I can say that, yes, the sessions for the Rock With Me Henry version are there (as well as the session for the original harpsichord version) including the sessions for that odd 'mamamama' tag. As far as I could tell, everything was unfinished like it was on boot. The vocal on Rock With Me Henry finishes where it always did, long before the track ends. I don't remember hearing 'I need some water, man', though. And the April piano version of Wonderful is also there, but again incomplete. Just a few backing vocals on one of the verses, like on the boots.

Zodiac - there are no Worms vocals on the Holidays chorus. But I think you knew that already. And to complete the story, there are no 'Ocean Liners' or 'Sandwich Isles' Worms vocals on the verses, either (just the old tape drag vocals, now without the drag), although there is that muffled snippet sung by Brian in the sessions, which might be for the verse, the chorus, or who knows?

Andrew Doe - S was really into the vocal-only montage track - like Leila posted here in one of her short early posts, he thought it was "absolutely inspirational" - and Leila really liked it, too. She wrote about that. I wasn't so taken with it, as I don't like these Stack-O-Vocals things. It's always just like listening to half the proper Wilson arrangement to me, a bit of an abomination. But that's why I didn't mention it. For Mylene, I certainly didn't hear anything that destroyed my mind in there, just lots vocal sections we've heard before, but without the instrumental tracks. FWIW, I heard lots of stuff from Heroes and Villains, Wonderful, Cabin Essence, Worms, Vega-Tables and Wind Chimes.

Tristero - we did also whiz through Heroes and Villains sections on disc 1, which is different to the Good Vibrations box set version. For a start it's all in stereo. The slowing down section at the end of the Western theme, or Prelude to fade, is different, with whistles and bells and collapsing strings again. I think that's a different take spliced in from that session. Also, the track ends differently to the 1993 mix - a run through a piano 'Do A Lot' section I didn't recognise, the dum/whistle/explosion from the Cantina version, and the False Barnyard to fade. Hey, maybe me, S and Leila will make the book? Or maybe we won't, now… "

[JMZ]

Either that, or what we're hearing is a contemporary edit of Brian's that they found, and they thought it might be interesting to use, even though it was ultimately discarded by the group when they completed the song in '68.

This is really my opinion too, they leave it here as a piece of history we'll certainly know more about by reading the TSS booklet (because I figure -and hope- there will be details about each mix, archival trivia and stuff).

And the comment of AGD makes me think once again he knows more about it he can tell, and we'll learn the reason soon  

Oh, and by the way, I apologize for my jest-ures

I, of course didn't mean it  

[The Demon]

Much appreciation for isolating those vocals, they're great to hear.  Strange that they'd consider burying something like that (if it is, indeed, a period decision).  I wonder if Brian ever considered putting the "truck driving man" lyric under the actual "Grand Coolie Dam" section, instead of burying both in "Who Ran the Iron Horse."  That might clash a bit, though.

[Mikie]

Regarding the "Truck Drivin' Man" part. I've asked this before and nobody seems to have an answer. Maybe Linett or Boyd knows. Maybe only Steve Desper and Carl and/or Brian Wilson know:

Was the "Truck Drivin' Man segment part of the original Cabinessence? If so, was it originally more up front in the mix or was it always mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics? Was this the way it was for the original Cabinessence mix in 1966 or were the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics later added over the top of the "Truck Drivin' Man" part in 1968 for the released version? 

[Ebb and Flow]

Regarding the "Truck Drivin' Man" part. I've asked this before and nobody seems to have an answer. Maybe Linett or Boyd knows. Maybe only Steve Desper and Carl and/or Brian Wilson know:

Was the "Truck Drivin' Man segment part of the original Cabinessence? If so, was it originally more up front in the mix or was it always mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics? Was this the way it was for the original Cabinessence mix in 1966 or were the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics later added over the top of the "Truck Drivin' Man" part in 1968 for the released version? 

It's present on the last Cabin Essence track in "Secret Smile", which I'm pretty sure contains only the vocal overdubs recorded in 1966.  AFAIK the only thing added in 1968 was Carl's lead vocal.

[Jason]

Regarding the "Truck Drivin' Man" part. I've asked this before and nobody seems to have an answer. Maybe Linett or Boyd knows. Maybe only Steve Desper and Carl and/or Brian Wilson know:

Was the "Truck Drivin' Man segment part of the original Cabinessence? If so, was it originally more up front in the mix or was it always mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics? Was this the way it was for the original Cabinessence mix in 1966 or were the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics later added over the top of the "Truck Drivin' Man" part in 1968 for the released version? 

It's present on the last Cabin Essence track in "Secret Smile", which I'm pretty sure contains only the vocal overdubs recorded in 1966.  AFAIK the only thing added in 1968 was Carl's lead vocal.

I forget who it was who confirmed it (I think it was Steve Desper but am not 100% sure) but allegedly Carl's lead also dates from 1966.

[Chris Brown]

Regarding the "Truck Drivin' Man" part. I've asked this before and nobody seems to have an answer. Maybe Linett or Boyd knows. Maybe only Steve Desper and Carl and/or Brian Wilson know:

Was the "Truck Drivin' Man segment part of the original Cabinessence? If so, was it originally more up front in the mix or was it always mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics? Was this the way it was for the original Cabinessence mix in 1966 or were the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics later added over the top of the "Truck Drivin' Man" part in 1968 for the released version? 

It's present on the last Cabin Essence track in "Secret Smile", which I'm pretty sure contains only the vocal overdubs recorded in 1966.  AFAIK the only thing added in 1968 was Carl's lead vocal.

I forget who it was who confirmed it (I think it was Steve Desper but am not 100% sure) but allegedly Carl's lead also dates from 1966.

I'd have to take a look back through his thread, but I thought that Desper said that the lead dated from '68, although if that's the case, it begs the question - how did Carl know what to sing in '68?  There must have been a guide vocal of some kind on there to go by, since I doubt Brian would have showed him, given how loathe he was to work on Smile material after its collapse.

[37!ws]

I think the story is that Carl found sheet music with the lead vocal line on it.

[Chris Brown]

I think the story is that Carl found sheet music with the lead vocal line on it.

Makes sense, I actually didn't think of that. 

[Micha]

I think the story is that Carl found sheet music with the lead vocal line on it.

What is the source of that info? It makes more sense to think that the lead was tried in 1966 and Carl remembered it or asked Brian how it went.

And what do you make of my assumption that the chorus and fade are 1966 mixes? Sonically they are IMHO closer to the way GV sounds than to the way the 1969 CE sounds. And the chorusses end with some strange tape hiss, too.

That's a nice word, "chorusses".

[Chris Brown]

I think the story is that Carl found sheet music with the lead vocal line on it.

What is the source of that info? It makes more sense to think that the lead was tried in 1966 and Carl remembered it or asked Brian how it went.

And what do you make of my assumption that the chorus and fade are 1966 mixes? Sonically they are IMHO closer to the way GV sounds than to the way the 1969 CE sounds. And the chorusses end with some strange tape hiss, too.

That's a nice word, "chorusses".

It would make perfect sense to think that the lead was recorded in some fashion in '66, either by Brian as a demo or by Carl as a shot at actually recording it.  Much like "Worms," somebody must have taken a stab at it at some point.  Why record literally everything else but the lead?

I think your assumption about '66 mixes is quite plausible, and would certainly make the new mix more interesting from a historical perspective.  Again, it's not unreasonable to think that Brian did edits of those sections in '66 - they were finished back then, after all.  So maybe acetates were found of these test mixes Brian made, and Mark and Alan used those mixes as a reference to replicate them using the original source tapes.  Hopefully this is the case with other songs as well.

[Micha]

Why record literally everything else but the lead?

Because the lyrics were being questioned? But then again, the most disputed line was recorded.

Maybe they were recorded and then wiped?

[Mikie]

I just wrote a whole big long thing on the Truck Drivin' Man lyrics and the Chorus and Secret Smile and I LOST the fuckkin' thing and don't feel like typing it all again!!

Bottom line - Listening to Secret Smile disc 1, there are no clues there. You don't hear the "Truck" lyrics until Track 20 - 'Chorus'. The "Who Ran The Iron Horse" vocals are there quite a few takes before the "Truck" lyrics. Seems like it should be the opposite, but no. Unless the "Truck" lyrics were added in 1968, but I doubt that. I like the Truck section, but maybe they put it in there, decided they didn't like it, and tried to mix it down and out, but there's bleed-through. Or was parts of it left weaving in and out of the mix intentionally? I don't see what Dennis' monotone drone of inaudible lytics added to the song. I mean, I like Van's abstract words and all but.....it just seems like they tried to mix it out but weren't completely successful.

I'm just going to assume that the "Truck Drivin' Man" lyrics were sung by Dennis in '66 and put into the mix. By the way, there's no Carl lead vocal on Cabinessence at all on the Secret Smile sessions disc. Nothing at all on SOT 17. Nothing on Archaeology....

[Andrew G. Doe]

Regarding the "Truck Drivin' Man" part. I've asked this before and nobody seems to have an answer. Maybe Linett or Boyd knows. Maybe only Steve Desper and Carl and/or Brian Wilson know:

Was the "Truck Drivin' Man segment part of the original Cabinessence? If so, was it originally more up front in the mix or was it always mixed down behind the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics? Was this the way it was for the original Cabinessence mix in 1966 or were the "Who Ran The Iron Horse" lyrics later added over the top of the "Truck Drivin' Man" part in 1968 for the released version? 

It's present on the last Cabin Essence track in "Secret Smile", which I'm pretty sure contains only the vocal overdubs recorded in 1966.  AFAIK the only thing added in 1968 was Carl's lead vocal.

I forget who it was who confirmed it (I think it was Steve Desper but am not 100% sure) but allegedly Carl's lead also dates from 1966.

Nope, 1968 for sure.

[guitarfool2002]

Dennis quote, from the Preiss book, origin unknown: "There's a line in there, 'truck driving man', which I sang. I got off so much on doing that. It's mixed way down in the track, and it's syncopated all the way through. Right there is my biggest turn-on."

It sounds like Dennis liked the track/part, and that the low mixing was deliberate.

It would be nice to nail down the date when Dennis tracked that vocal, and it would make sense that he'd do it while the group was there recording vocals on "Who Ran The Iron Horse", but what makes sense with Smile times and dates?

I'd bet 1966 when "Iron Horse" and "Grand Coulee" got their vocals.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

My understanding has always been that everything on CE is vintage '66 apart from the leads and the final assembly.

[Mikie]

Ah, been a long time since I read the Leaf and Preiss books!

I can see why Dennis liked it. I liked it, and true, it's syncopated and it kinda fits. But the problem is, it's mixed so far back that you don't hear much of it - for sure not the lyrics, but kind of a hummmmmm and parts like "gas man"  and "last gasp" surface sometimes, but for the most part, you don't hear it. It's like, what's the use? What's the use of inserting it there? Was it Brian's original intention for a Cabinessence background part or did he just have these lyrics floating around that he needed to pop into a song somewhere? Maybe Brian remembers. Maybe Priore knows and it'll be in the book. I don't think any detailed info is in any of the 4 LLVS books, is it? I don't have them handy right now. Sounds like Brian is in COMPLETE control of this thing though, especially conducting the musicians on the instrumental track. Dudn't sound like any stoners in the studio here!

[guitarfool2002]

David Oppenheim's Inside Pop notes from a Cabinessence vocal session filmed by CBS:

83

    1.  engineer
    2.  pan up to Brian
    3.  board
    4.  Boys singing who Ran The Iron Horse  
              (Above "who Ran" is the scratched out word "Hooray"
               as if he wasn't sure what the words were.)
    5.  Wilson ?    (judging?!?!)
    6.  Boys singing who Ran The Iron Horse
    7.  Do Wa Wa in circle
    8.  Wilson ?     (shelving?!?!)
84  9.  Let's work on microphone
        boys around mike
        Do wa


With this and other entries you can vaguely piece together which songs and sections they were recording. This is the section where we hear "Truck Drivin Man", yet no mention was made of that vocal, any of those words, or Dennis recording them at that session.

[desmondo]

JMZ or anyone with the gadgets - have you done a similar exercise on BWPS version of Cabinessence?

[Iron Horse-Apples]

There seems to be no solid evidence as to whether Truck Driving Man is '66 or '68.

Personally I believe it is '66 because it is so precise. The syncopation has been heavily rehearsed and coached imo. It is a chant. Who was really into chants and heavy rehearsals in 1966? This has Brian all over it.

By '68, would he have been interested or inclined to rehearse Dennis in this line?

Did he have anything to do with CE '68?

Did he want it on 20/20 at all?