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Zappa - again!
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Topic: Zappa - again! (Read 17742 times)
dogbreath
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"Foda deal with it!"
Zappa - again!
«
on:
December 27, 2005, 06:24:21 AM »
Posts: 7
I wanted to add something to the Zappa thread at the ex-board, so here it is; a continuation of that, rather than a new topic.
My recommendation for anyone new to Zappa would be Burnt Weeny Sandwich, an often overlooked and mostly instrumental gem from the end of the original group's output. It has everything, from the two doo-wop retreads that act as the bread for this particular sandwich (they sandwich the "meat" between them, see), through live splices and berserker improv to highly-arranged "orchestral" pieces, all wrapped up in a typically fantastic/repulsive Cal Schenkel sleeve. And for once, the CD works better than the album, letting side one flow into side two, as it should.
Another big favourite of mine (which seems to just go on getting better as the years pass) is Lumpy Gravy, which was pretty much dismissed at the time - "where's the group, where's the tunes? where's the guitar?" - but which showcases his use of the studio-as-instrument as well as anything he ever did. Motorhead's career resumé is a gorgeous bit of audio collage as well as being hilarious.
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GP1138
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #1 on:
December 27, 2005, 06:28:29 AM »
I have the original "Cruisin' With Ruben and the Jets" 1968 mix from vinyl if anyone's interested. It's a rare find, because he remixed it in '84 (terribly) and hadn't rereleased the original since then.
"Hot Rats" was my starting point for Zappa, and IMHO, the perfect one. It's just interesting enough for the first time listener to hook you in, especially if you just push play and Peaches is your first listen. That's one of Zappa's best hooks, the drum riff leading into Peaches, and that was the curtain rising for Zappa in my mind.
If you like "Willie the Pimp", you might consider getting his other two jazz-fusion albums, "Waka/Jawaka" and "The Grand Wazoo". They're both excellent and sufficiently long. It sounds as if Zappa picked up a copy of Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew" and wanted to do something similar, especially on "Waka/Jawaka".
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the captain
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #2 on:
December 27, 2005, 10:25:26 AM »
Quote from: dogbreath on December 27, 2005, 06:24:21 AM
My recommendation for anyone new to Zappa would be Burnt Weeny Sandwich, an often overlooked and mostly instrumental gem from the end of the original group's output. It has everything, from the two doo-wop retreads that act as the bread for this particular sandwich (they sandwich the "meat" between them, see), through live splices and berserker improv to highly-arranged "orchestral" pieces, all wrapped up in a typically fantastic/repulsive Cal Schenkel sleeve. And for once, the CD works better than the album, letting side one flow into side two, as it should.
GREAT ALBUM! Not sure about it as an intro, but I guess it depends on how cool the person you're trying to introduce is...
Quote from: dogbreath on December 27, 2005, 06:24:21 AM
Another big favourite of mine (which seems to just go on getting better as the years pass) is Lumpy Gravy, which was pretty much dismissed at the time - "where's the group, where's the tunes? where's the guitar?" - but which showcases his use of the studio-as-instrument as well as anything he ever did. Motorhead's career resumé is a gorgeous bit of audio collage as well as being hilarious.
Another gem. I love Lumpy Gravy--it's among my favorite 25 or 30 albums. "The way I see it, Gary..."
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Jason
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #3 on:
December 27, 2005, 11:38:02 AM »
It's all about The Yellow Shark. Damn if that isn't Zappa's finest classical work.
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I. Spaceman
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Revolution Never Again
Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #4 on:
December 27, 2005, 11:41:35 AM »
Quote
Damn if that isn't Zappa's finest classical work.
Is that really saying anything?
C'mon guys, the man lost all heart and soul in the early 70's. Songs like Mom And Dad and Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance showed a real caring about the human race and it's possibilities. Then he just stopped caring, and it all became rank and juvenile promotion of masturbation both in the literal sense and musical sense.
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Jason
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #5 on:
December 27, 2005, 11:48:24 AM »
Quote from: Ian, Cpt. Howdy on December 27, 2005, 11:41:35 AM
Is that really saying anything?
C'mon guys, the man lost all heart and soul in the early 70's. Songs like Mom And Dad and Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance showed a real caring about the human race and it's possibilities. Then he just stopped caring, and it all became rank and juvenile promotion of masturbation both in the literal sense and musical sense.
I enjoy Frank's material the most between 1966 to 1974, with a few albums scattered between 1975 and 1993, and most of those I listen to just for his guitar work, which was ALWAYS exemplary. If you can listen to Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar and not be moved, well you just don't appreciate the art of the guitar. His classical work I never found much fault with, I enjoy it very much. But his "pop" albums, if you want to call them that, were more obsessed with being rank and disgusting, almost to the extent of self-parody. It was tolerable on Over-nite Sensation and Apostrophe, but after that, it became wearisome, even embarassing.
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I. Spaceman
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #6 on:
December 27, 2005, 11:50:55 AM »
Quote
If you can listen to Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar and not be moved, well you just don't appreciate the art of the guitar.
I'm extremely moved by Hot Rats, let's put it that way.
His most underrated song? Tears Began To Fall. Seriously. Listen to it.
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GP1138
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #7 on:
December 27, 2005, 12:02:43 PM »
Quote from: Ian, Cpt. Howdy on December 27, 2005, 11:50:55 AM
His most underrated song? Tears Began To Fall. Seriously. Listen to it.
What album is that off of?
And Hot Rats is excellent, though that was in my post above that was apparently inconsequential.
:
Quote
«
Last Edit: December 27, 2005, 12:56:21 PM by GP1138
»
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I. Spaceman
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #8 on:
December 27, 2005, 12:03:47 PM »
Tears is on Fillmore East 71, last track.
I forgot to say that I totally agreed with your Rats post earlier.
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Jason
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #9 on:
December 27, 2005, 12:06:25 PM »
Quote from: Ian, Cpt. Howdy on December 27, 2005, 11:50:55 AM
I'm extremely moved by Hot Rats, let's put it that way.
His most underrated song? Tears Began To Fall. Seriously. Listen to it.
I LOVE that song! That's a contender for best Zappa tune by a long shot. Shame it's on one of his lesser albums.
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I. Spaceman
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #10 on:
December 27, 2005, 12:10:38 PM »
WHAT?!
Fillmore East a lesser album? No siree bob, nuttin' with Flo And Eddie is lesser! The reason that the rique humor is hilariously funny there is that Flo And Eddie wrote all of it, though you wouldn't know that by the credits! Bwana Dik, Little House I Used To Live In, Tears, a GREAT Peaches etc. An amazing album, and Just Another Band From LA is, as well.
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the captain
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #11 on:
December 27, 2005, 12:18:13 PM »
Just Another Band is great...the main "Billy Was A Mountain..." musical theme is great, and that Flo and Eddie sang it was tremendous.
Agreed on Zappa's failure to live up to his earlier (meaning first decade, or just under) work. I did like his last touring band, but there was no original material to speak of. I like his orchestral music and he was always a good player, but as far as making albums of listenable pop music, nothing he did mattered much to me--at least consistently--after the mid-70s. And really, I don't like anything after Grand Wazoo as much as what came before. The next band, too, I guess, with Roxy, etc.
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Jason
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #12 on:
December 27, 2005, 12:18:46 PM »
I prefer Just Another Band From LA, by a long shot.
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GP1138
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #13 on:
December 27, 2005, 01:04:33 PM »
Quote from: Luther on December 27, 2005, 12:18:13 PM
Just Another Band is great...the main "Billy Was A Mountain..." musical theme is great, and that Flo and Eddie sang it was tremendous.
Agreed on Zappa's failure to live up to his earlier (meaning first decade, or just under) work. I did like his last touring band, but there was no original material to speak of. I like his orchestral music and he was always a good player, but as far as making albums of listenable pop music, nothing he did mattered much to me--at least consistently--after the mid-70s. And really, I don't like anything after Grand Wazoo as much as what came before. The next band, too, I guess, with Roxy, etc.
It's early 70's for me. For some reason, I abhor "Flo and Eddie". I never did understand the obsession Frank had with grossness and some of the drivel that the two Turtles spewed out during that period. My least favorite period by fart.
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Jason
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #14 on:
December 27, 2005, 01:06:24 PM »
Quote from: GP1138 on December 27, 2005, 01:04:33 PM
It's early 70's for me. For some reason, I abhor "Flo and Eddie". I never did understand the obsession Frank had with grossness and some of the drivel that the two Turtles spewed out during that period. My least favorite period by fart.
By fart, huh?
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GP1138
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #15 on:
December 27, 2005, 01:11:59 PM »
Quote from: Jason on December 27, 2005, 01:06:24 PM
Quote from: GP1138 on December 27, 2005, 01:04:33 PM
It's early 70's for me. For some reason, I abhor "Flo and Eddie". I never did understand the obsession Frank had with grossness and some of the drivel that the two Turtles spewed out during that period. My least favorite period by fart.
By fart, huh?
Dammit. You flat(ulence) out caught me.
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Jason
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #16 on:
December 27, 2005, 01:12:46 PM »
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Old Rake
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #17 on:
December 27, 2005, 01:18:58 PM »
I agree with Ian, the Flo and Eddie-era stuff was hilarious and right on. "Chunga's Revenge" is incredible, and hell, "200 Motels" is his crowning achievement. Take that, "Uncle Meat," which didn't even get finished and the album is a sprawling mess, take that! (Although of course I love Uncle Meat as well). The obsession is that they sing like motherfargers -- in the Turtles, in Zappa's band, in T. Rex. Those high, clear voices in close harmony? Insanely right-on.
I like the two live albums but for my money "Motels" is the best thing from that era.
And whoever said Zappa failed to live up to the potential of his first decade: okay, but LATHER. That's a remarkable achievement, even with "Punky's Whips" and "Illinois Enema Bandit" sillying it up. There's some total insanity on that thing, and the sheer SCALE is mammoth. And I'm all about Yellow Shark, too, and Jazz From Hell is up there for me as well!
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GP1138
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #18 on:
December 27, 2005, 01:24:02 PM »
Quote from: Old Rake on December 27, 2005, 01:18:58 PM
And whoever said Zappa failed to live up to the potential of his first decade: okay, but LATHER. That's a remarkable achievement, even with "Punky's Whips" and "Illinois Enema Bandit" sillying it up. There's some total insanity on that thing, and the sheer SCALE is mammoth. And I'm all about Yellow Shark, too, and Jazz From Hell is up there for me as well!
LATHER is also something posthumous that was based on an earlier project that became "Studio Tan", "Sleep Dirt", and a couple of other things in the mid-70's.
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the captain
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #19 on:
December 27, 2005, 02:13:36 PM »
Quote from: GP1138 on December 27, 2005, 01:24:02 PM
Quote from: Old Rake on December 27, 2005, 01:18:58 PM
And whoever said Zappa failed to live up to the potential of his first decade: okay, but LATHER. That's a remarkable achievement, even with "Punky's Whips" and "Illinois Enema Bandit" sillying it up. There's some total insanity on that thing, and the sheer SCALE is mammoth. And I'm all about Yellow Shark, too, and Jazz From Hell is up there for me as well!
LATHER is also something posthumous that was based on an earlier project that became "Studio Tan", "Sleep Dirt", and a couple of other things in the mid-70's.
No, Lather was unquestionably an intended large-scale release that was to incorporate those albums. Instead--either by Zappa's own decision or his record company's, depending on whom you choose to believe--it was split up and released as those albums instead. In fact, Zappa himself once played the entire thing while a guest on a radio station in the mid-70s. He said something to the effect of, "okay, everyone, you'll never get to hear this again as it is intended, so hit record on your tape players...I'll give you a minute."
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the captain
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #20 on:
December 27, 2005, 02:15:21 PM »
Another thing on why Zappa was fascinated with Flo & Eddie (other than their unquestioned singing ability) -- don't forget that he did have a great sense of humor and irony, even if he buried it beneath d1ck and t1t jokes. So when the guys from the band about whom the Mother once were told "We could make you as big as the Turtles!" he had to see that as a great opportunity for humor...
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Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs
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No interest in your assorted grudges and nonsense.
Old Rake
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #21 on:
December 27, 2005, 02:16:05 PM »
There's a zappa-penned master tape box in the liner notes, too. Its pretty clear that in a very SIMILAR form, with the linking trax and dialogue, this thing was meant to be a four-album box set. It was RELEASED Posthumously, but not assembled posthumously. And its keen.
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Lester Byrd
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #22 on:
December 27, 2005, 02:26:26 PM »
Where's the love for
Joe's Garage
? Surely one of Frank's finest achievements.
I'm also a big fan of
Broadway the Hard Way
. Granted some of the political humor is dated (or maybe not so much these days!), but it's got some fine new songs (e.g. "Any Kind of Pain") and lots of smokin' playing ("Hot Plate Heaven At The Green Hotel"), plus Sting getting pissed off when Zappa keeps referring to him as "Mr. Sting."
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the captain
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Re: Zappa - again!
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Reply #23 on:
December 27, 2005, 02:28:56 PM »
Joe's Garage was one of my first Zappa purchases (amusingly because I was under the mistaken impression that Steve Vai, whom I worshipped at the time as a guitar student in college, was ont he disc). I enjoyed it somewhat at first, finding it funny. But I no longer get into what I find to be a synthetic, trebly, thin sound that Zappa had from the late 70s through the mid-to-late '80s.
Oh wait, 98% of the world had that awful sound.
If not for Tom Waits and a couple of things by Lou Reed, I'd try to wipe the '80s out of everyone's collective memory. I really would.
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Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs
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Lester Byrd
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Re: Zappa - again!
«
Reply #24 on:
December 27, 2005, 02:37:44 PM »
Quote from: Luther on December 27, 2005, 02:28:56 PM
I was under the mistaken impression that Steve Vai, whom I worshipped at the time as a guitar student in college, was ont he disc).
Guess you enjoyed "Stevie's Spanking" when you discovered it, then. Or was that the end of the worship?
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