SPOILER!!- Heroes and Villains and Good Vibrations from TSS

[WaxOn]

Ok, the tunes are obvious - but does anybody think it's cool to have a high resolution file of the cover?

Maybe everybody will get to that after they burn a fatty and listen to GV and H&V on repeat for a few hours.

[Roger Ryan]

yes, i'm sure it will turn up somewhere on the box... possibly as part of My Only Sunshine.

still, i think the "tape explosion" and the fade were essential parts of H&V, at least at one time.

And the whistling before the tape explosion.

But I really don't think there's any question that a version of the Cantina fade will be the end of Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine, with the "sun" vocals on top.  The 1:57 listed for that track is exactly the length of OMP/YAMS with the fade.

The tape explosion could well be part of Great Shape, though the time for that track is awfully short

I'm pretty sure the "I'm In Great Shape" feedback reverb will be there (the original only ran through the verse melody once before the feedback begins so it should fit), but I don't see the "Heroes..." tape explosion working it's way in there - that wouldn't make any sense!

[juggler]

Ok, the tunes are obvious - but does anybody think it's cool to have a high resolution file of the cover?

I, for one, think it's very cool.  So many of the "unauthorized" releases over the years have had really crappy reproductions of the Smile shop with the colors way off (e.g., wrong shades of green, blue, etc.).  Very nice to finally have JPGs that look exactly right.

[Dim Chandelier]

yes, i'm sure it will turn up somewhere on the box... possibly as part of My Only Sunshine.

still, i think the "tape explosion" and the fade were essential parts of H&V, at least at one time.

And the whistling before the tape explosion.

But I really don't think there's any question that a version of the Cantina fade will be the end of Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine, with the "sun" vocals on top.  The 1:57 listed for that track is exactly the length of OMP/YAMS with the fade.

The tape explosion could well be part of Great Shape, though the time for that track is awfully short

I'm pretty sure the "I'm In Great Shape" feedback reverb will be there (the original only ran through the verse melody once before the feedback begins so it should fit), but I don't see the "Heroes..." tape explosion working it's way in there - that wouldn't make any sense!

The tape explosion would be an interesting way to end side one of the H&V single. Your cue to flip the record over and continue on with part 2.

[monicker]

So wait, if the Baldwin was overdubbed during mono mixdown, how is it still on the boys/girls section?

[WaxOn]

Ok, the tunes are obvious - but does anybody think it's cool to have a high resolution file of the cover?

I, for one, think it's very cool.  So many of the "unauthorized" releases over the years have had really crappy reproductions of the Smile shop with the colors way off (e.g., wrong shades of green, blue, etc.).  Very nice to finally have JPGs that look exactly right.

Not just a JPEG, but EPS with CMYK color. This could print to offset litho full 12x12 size (300dpi).

I for one am going to print a full size copy (or 4) for friends. Large format photo printer and all.
I was never fortunate enough to get my hands on an original printers proof.

Oh well, it's sadly obvious what I'm going to be listening to tonight.
BTW, the mono GV is astounding - the soundstage is huge.
But it is so strange listening to pitch perfect people doing pitch perfect music that hasn't been digitally pitch perfected isn't it?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Even if they're doing something that's not exactly the way we'd do it, we're getting a treasure trove of pristine-quality Smile material with which we can do whatever we want.

But won't some of the session stuff be in stereo? Gonna be a hassle to tack on parts and fold them down. But dag nabbit, I'll do it if I have too!

[Jeff]

yes, i'm sure it will turn up somewhere on the box... possibly as part of My Only Sunshine.

still, i think the "tape explosion" and the fade were essential parts of H&V, at least at one time.

And the whistling before the tape explosion.

But I really don't think there's any question that a version of the Cantina fade will be the end of Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine, with the "sun" vocals on top.  The 1:57 listed for that track is exactly the length of OMP/YAMS with the fade.

The tape explosion could well be part of Great Shape, though the time for that track is awfully short

I'm pretty sure the "I'm In Great Shape" feedback reverb will be there (the original only ran through the verse melody once before the feedback begins so it should fit), but I don't see the "Heroes..." tape explosion working it's way in there - that wouldn't make any sense!

Right, I didn't mean to imply that the actual H&V tape explosion would be in Great Shape, but still A tape explosion -- the one that we hear on the Great Shape session tape.  And I would imagine they've flown in the EH vocals over the verse.

[Jay]

Also will I be the first with the guts to suggest that besides the better sound quality there is nothing much better than many fan mixes here? And certainly not better than the singles - Heroes and Villains on the single is like it or leave it THE one, because Brian felt strongly for it. It was at the height of a big trip for him, it meant a lot. And the harpsichord is in that version too you just might not have your eq set right. it's low in the mix, subliminal. mozart on acid a couple rooms away. The humbedum was left out of Good Vibrations not for time constraints but because it makes the song drag into mediocrity, the Ahhhhh! becomes a non-climax, deadened. Someone didn't get this in the room. They should've hired me as spiritual over seer of project. Mark Linett, you made the Ahhhhhs a premature ejaculation.

Those "Aaahs" – and the "breath" in Surf's Up '71, which strike on (or a millisecond prior to) the "D" in "Dove nested towers…" – are two of the quintessential moments in rock music. Peerless.

Could somebody possibly pm me a sound clip of this? I don't think I've ever really noticed anything special in that section.

[rab2591]

My first impressions from the new tracks;

H&V sounds SO clean! However, the first thirty seconds or so the vocals are much louder than the instrumentals...kind of odd, but I'm not complaining. Very glad they used the 'Boys and Girls' section from SS....I know it breaks the rules I guess, but it sounds so much better than the other more comical version. Also love the ending - that trombone flutter is great!

GV sounds AMAZING. Love the 'Hum De Dum' edit - great to see an official finished version of this.

Anywho, just got back from a weeklong vacation (the above is probably incomprehensible as I've been awake for a LONG time, driving for a long time too). Anywho, wonderful to see the board well and happy again - We'll all be listening to this box set in about 60 days!!!!!

[Daniel S.]

This version of H&V is truly the proper follow up to good vibrations!!!!!!

damn right! 

[bossaroo]

yes, i'm sure it will turn up somewhere on the box... possibly as part of My Only Sunshine.

still, i think the "tape explosion" and the fade were essential parts of H&V, at least at one time.

And the whistling before the tape explosion.

But I really don't think there's any question that a version of the Cantina fade will be the end of Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine, with the "sun" vocals on top.  The 1:57 listed for that track is exactly the length of OMP/YAMS with the fade.

The tape explosion could well be part of Great Shape, though the time for that track is awfully short

I'm pretty sure the "I'm In Great Shape" feedback reverb will be there (the original only ran through the verse melody once before the feedback begins so it should fit), but I don't see the "Heroes..." tape explosion working it's way in there - that wouldn't make any sense!

The tape explosion would be an interesting way to end side one of the H&V single. Your cue to flip the record over and continue on with part 2.

i'm really hoping 'Heroes Pts 1 & 2' is going to blow our minds.

[Chris Brown]

yes, i'm sure it will turn up somewhere on the box... possibly as part of My Only Sunshine.

still, i think the "tape explosion" and the fade were essential parts of H&V, at least at one time.

And the whistling before the tape explosion.

But I really don't think there's any question that a version of the Cantina fade will be the end of Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine, with the "sun" vocals on top.  The 1:57 listed for that track is exactly the length of OMP/YAMS with the fade.

The tape explosion could well be part of Great Shape, though the time for that track is awfully short

I'm pretty sure the "I'm In Great Shape" feedback reverb will be there (the original only ran through the verse melody once before the feedback begins so it should fit), but I don't see the "Heroes..." tape explosion working it's way in there - that wouldn't make any sense!

Right, I didn't mean to imply that the actual H&V tape explosion would be in Great Shape, but still A tape explosion -- the one that we hear on the Great Shape session tape.  And I would imagine they've flown in the EH vocals over the verse.

I wouldn't be so sure on that one - unless I'm mistaken, the EH demo is one track of Brian using a single mic for both his piano and vocals.  Unless they can somehow extract the piano and isolate Brian's vocal, no flying in would be possible.  

[Jay]

yes, i'm sure it will turn up somewhere on the box... possibly as part of My Only Sunshine.

still, i think the "tape explosion" and the fade were essential parts of H&V, at least at one time.

And the whistling before the tape explosion.

But I really don't think there's any question that a version of the Cantina fade will be the end of Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine, with the "sun" vocals on top.  The 1:57 listed for that track is exactly the length of OMP/YAMS with the fade.

The tape explosion could well be part of Great Shape, though the time for that track is awfully short

I'm pretty sure the "I'm In Great Shape" feedback reverb will be there (the original only ran through the verse melody once before the feedback begins so it should fit), but I don't see the "Heroes..." tape explosion working it's way in there - that wouldn't make any sense!

Right, I didn't mean to imply that the actual H&V tape explosion would be in Great Shape, but still A tape explosion -- the one that we hear on the Great Shape session tape.  And I would imagine they've flown in the EH vocals over the verse.

I wouldn't be so sure on that one - unless I'm mistaken, the EH demo is one track of Brian using a single mic for both his piano and vocals.  Unless they can somehow extract the piano and isolate Brian's vocal, no flying in would be possible.  

I've tried my own sync of the piano and vocal over the backing track. I used the instrumental as it was on the Purple Chick mix. It can be done. It'll be quite hard to do though. Well, it was hard for me to do in Audacity. I gave up on it. But I think it can be done with a lot of patience and a lot of cut and paste work. You would have to seperate the piano demo into several pieces, and fit it in a few seconds at a time.

[brother john]

Also will I be the first with the guts to suggest that besides the better sound quality there is nothing much better than many fan mixes here? And certainly not better than the singles - Heroes and Villains on the single is like it or leave it THE one, because Brian felt strongly for it. It was at the height of a big trip for him, it meant a lot. And the harpsichord is in that version too you just might not have your eq set right. it's low in the mix, subliminal. mozart on acid a couple rooms away. The humbedum was left out of Good Vibrations not for time constraints but because it makes the song drag into mediocrity, the Ahhhhh! becomes a non-climax, deadened. Someone didn't get this in the room. They should've hired me as spiritual over seer of project. Mark Linett, you made the Ahhhhhs a premature ejaculation.

Those "Aaahs" – and the "breath" in Surf's Up '71, which strike on (or a millisecond prior to) the "D" in "Dove nested towers…" – are two of the quintessential moments in rock music. Peerless.

Could somebody possibly pm me a sound clip of this? I don't think I've ever really noticed anything special in that section.

Both items referred to are commercially available and, I would guess at 2350 posts, probably already in your collection! 

[brother john]

Also will I be the first with the guts to suggest that besides the better sound quality there is nothing much better than many fan mixes here? And certainly not better than the singles - Heroes and Villains on the single is like it or leave it THE one, because Brian felt strongly for it. It was at the height of a big trip for him, it meant a lot. And the harpsichord is in that version too you just might not have your eq set right. it's low in the mix, subliminal. mozart on acid a couple rooms away. The humbedum was left out of Good Vibrations not for time constraints but because it makes the song drag into mediocrity, the Ahhhhh! becomes a non-climax, deadened. Someone didn't get this in the room. They should've hired me as spiritual over seer of project. Mark Linett, you made the Ahhhhhs a premature ejaculation.

ghost is right. The Hum de has were left of the final mix for a reason: they're not really very good, and break up the extraordinary dynamism of the track.

And the same goes for H&V - as fab as the extra parts are, the 2nd half as featured here degenerates into a rambling series of... what it is: odd bits and pieces, ideas, sketches etc. The H&V single as released was as good as H&V will ever be as a pop song. All the rest is intriguing but flawed due to its lack of a firm shape.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

The question is will it be the familiar one, or will it be the re-record with Carl singing on it? A piece of late SMiLE period beauty and eloquence.

I'm not sure I have come across this before (seems likely I will when the box is released ) - is it just wordless vocals from Carl here?

Wordless. It's on one of the Heroes boots, the second one.

[Micha]

My comparison was the SOT session to the "new" mix posted Tuesday, I haven't compared those to the "sessions" version on the Smiley Smile 2-fer.

Checked SOT now, and it seems that we talked about totally different things and I totally failed in trying to communicate my point. It might be that I thought I discovered something which was common knowledge. I'll try again:

1. From the SOT it is clear that the whole organ section is 24 bars long, the last note being the first quarter of the 24th bar. That takes up about 42 seconds on SOT. On the 1966 single, it is those 24 bars.
The Humbedums start at the 9th bar, the flute on the 13th bar. The „hark“ is on the 23rd bar.

Now the bass: It starts at the 3 1/2 beat of the 8th bar with an 1/8 note - that is what you rightly claim as "deliberate" - just before the Humbedums start, then from the 4 beat of the 8th bar on it plays 1/4 notes through to the end.

2. The edit "Good Vibrations (Various sessions)", track 24 on the 1990 two-fer. The section runs from 5:48 to 6:52, that's 1:04 minutes as opposed to 0:42 minute as on SOT and the single version, 22 seconds LONGER, I counted 36 bars, 12 bars LONGER than the recorded backing track for that section. This is to me proof that this was edited.

3. Still talking about the "Good Vibrations (Various sessions)", track 24 on the 1990 two-fer: The spot where the edit takes place is right after the 3 beat of the 20th bar at 6:22. It continues with the deliberate 1/8 bass note from the 3 1/2 beat of the 8th bar of the original backing track. Result of the splice: the edited section has two 1/8 bass notes on the 3 beat and the 3 1/2 beat of its 20th bar. This 1/8 note on the 3 1/2 beat is the one that was called "hiccup" note in this thread (because all other notes around it are 1/4 notes), while it was deliberately played in the 8th bar.

4. As this edit was not documented in the liner notes I thought for many years that the section was originally as long as on "Good Vibrations (Various sessions)", and that Brian shortened it for the single version. As I only found out last Saturday, it was originally just as long as on the single, and the longer version is a 1990 construction. Curiously, the longer version is now constructed into the new Good Vibrations version, though without that "additional" 1/8 bass note.

Do you agree with this? If not, I have again failed to communicate my point.

Last edit: replaced wrong words.

[Micha]

Also, not sure how many people are aware of this, but putting the Rock Rock Roll lyrics onto Holidays was explicitly a vintage idea.

I wasn't aware of this, and I'm happy to hear that, because that's my favorite moment of BWPS. I always sing along. I even sing those lines when I listen to the 1966 Holidays. And recently it struck me that in the song I use in my own fan mixes as the earth section of "The Elements" a ROCK is mentioned...

[Freddie French-Pounce]

Do we know if this mix of Heroes is a new mix, or a recreation of a vintage mix from acetate?  Because the compilers had acetates of a loner version of Heroes and it was a longer version of the Smiley version.  This seems to fit that description.

We don't know, but we do know that it's almost an exact copy of the BWPS version... which Brian rubber stamped as being the way to do it. 

Thanks to Heroes and Villains, we know it isn't a carbon copy. The song ends with the horn, so it is clearly now there and not at the end of Gee like on BWPS.

[desmondo]

Do we know if this mix of Heroes is a new mix, or a recreation of a vintage mix from acetate?  Because the compilers had acetates of a loner version of Heroes and it was a longer version of the Smiley version.  This seems to fit that description.

We don't know, but we do know that it's almost an exact copy of the BWPS version... which Brian rubber stamped as being the way to do it. 

Thanks to Heroes and Villains, we know it isn't a carbon copy. The song ends with the horn, so it is clearly now there and not at the end of Gee like on BWPS.

Yes indeed - be interesting to see if it ends Gee as well (as per BWPS)

[desmondo]

My comparison was the SOT session to the "new" mix posted Tuesday, I haven't compared those to the "sessions" version on the Smiley Smile 2-fer.

Checked SOT now, and it seems that we talked about totally different things and I totally failed in trying to communicate my point. It might be that I thought I discovered something which was common knowledge. I'll try again:

1. From the SOT it is clear that the whole organ section is 24 bars long, the last note being the first quarter of the 24th bar. That takes up about 42 seconds on SOT. On the 1966 single, it is those 24 bars.
The Humbedums start at the 9th bar, the flute on the 13th bar. The hark is on the 23rd bar.

Now the bass: It starts at the 3 1/2 mark of the 8th bar with an 1/8 note - that is what you rightly claim as "deliberate" - just before the Humbedums start, then from the 4 mark of the 8th bar on it plays 1/4 notes through to the end.

2. The edit "Good Vibrations (Various sessions)", track 24 on the 1990 two-fer. The section runs from 5:48 to 6:52, that's 1:04 minutes as opposed to 0:42 minute as on SOT and the single version, 22 seconds LONGER, I counted 36 bars, 12 bars LONGER than the recorded backing track for that section. This is to me proof that this was edited.

3. Still talking about the "Good Vibrations (Various sessions)", track 24 on the 1990 two-fer: The spot where the edit takes place is right after the 3 mark of the 20th bar at 6:22. It continues with the deliberate 1/8 bass note from the 3 1/2 mark of the 8th bar of the original backing track. Result of the splice: the edited section has two 1/8 bass notes on the 3 mark and the 3 1/2 mark of its 20th bar. This 1/8 note on the 3 1/2 mark is the one that was called "hiccup" note in this thread (because all other notes around it are 1/4 notes), while it was deliberately played in the 8th bar.

4. As this edit was not documented in the liner notes I thought for many years that the section was originally as long as on "Good Vibrations (Various sessions)", and that Brian shortened it for the single version. As I only found out last Saturday, it was originally just as long as on the single, and the longer version is a 1990 construction. Curiously, the longer version is now constructed into the new Good Vibrations version, though without that "additional" 1/8 bass note.

Do you agree with this? If not, I have again failed to communicate my point.

Micha

Sorry but on the TSS GV - I counted 32 bars from start of organ to when the boys fall off the edge of the cliff - they actually stop on the first beat of bar 32 - does that help?

[Micha]

Sorry but on the TSS GV - I counted 32 bars from start of organ to when the boys fall off the edge of the cliff - they actually stop on the first beat of bar 32 - does that help?

Umm... I didn't count the bars on the TSS GV, so you may be right. I only counted the bars on SOT, 1966 single and 1990 "Good Vibrations (Various Sessions)". But the fact that the TSS GV has more bars than the original backing track heard on SOT makes clear that TSS GV has put more bars in there by editing. They just didn't do the "hiccup note" like on the 1990 edit.

What did help: I know now that I should have used the word "beat" instead of "mark". I just didn't find that word. The German word would be "Zählzeit". Sorry about that.

[The Heartical Don]

Sorry but on the TSS GV - I counted 32 bars from start of organ to when the boys fall off the edge of the cliff - they actually stop on the first beat of bar 32 - does that help?

Umm... I didn't count the bars on the TSS GV, so you may be right. I only counted the bars on SOT, 1966 single and 1990 "Good Vibrations (Various Sessions)". But the fact that the TSS GV has more bars than the original backing track heard on SOT makes clear that TSS GV has put more bars in there by editing. They just didn't do the "hiccup note" like on the 1990 edit.

What did help: I know now that I should have used the word "beat" instead of "mark". I just didn't find that word. The German word would be "Zählzeit". Sorry about that.

Well... Nov 1 it will be "Zahlzeit" for me...

[Micha]

Well... Nov 1 it will be "Zahlzeit" for me...

Without the umlaut that translates as "paytime".