David Leaf

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

"Inner circle, outer circle, hanging out somewhere with Joe Thomas and Rocky Pamplin? "

Brian's going to work with Thomas again, so all must have been smoothed over

Is this true?
what's your source?

It was posted on this board recently; I can't remember the details exactly.

[punkinhead]

"Inner circle, outer circle, hanging out somewhere with Joe Thomas and Rocky Pamplin? "

Brian's going to work with Thomas again, so all must have been smoothed over

Is this true?
what's your source?

It was posted on this board recently; I can't remember the details exactly.

Hope Joe cut that terrible mullet!

[Wirestone]

What on earth?

Outside the relatively select community of BB researchers, what does it matter if David Leaf is standoffish or not?

To blame him for the view of Brian as the auteur of the Beach Boys shows more ignorance of history than he's accused of. Try Derek Taylor in the 1960s. Try Dennis Wilson, he of we're just the messengers.

This has nothing to do with Leaf. This has to do with the fact that the Beach Boys is a business, still, that makes a lot of money for a lot of people. And a lot of those people still resent the acclaim that Brian has garnered while not "working" like the touring band. These folks have worked diligently over the years to diminish the credit BW receives.

Anyone who thinks that these folks aren't engaging in their own, long-running and well-funded PR campaign is delusional. And that Brian is now without his PR guy -- well, it's certainly convenient for them and their reunion plans, isn't it?

[MBE]

Sorry to go off topic, but Mr. Eder, I am SERIOUSLY excited to read your book. Please find a way to get this thing out there. I will definitely be a buyer.

And, yeah, David Leaf, I gotta admit, after reading that book it seriously leaves the impression that Brian was so horribly treated by his friends and family all the time. I've now came to accept it was pretty much up to him that Smile was scrapped, and that his workload kept getting lighter and lighter. Up until like '75, I'd pretty much say Brian did what Brian wanted, when he wanted to. Then there's his way of seriously overrating unreleased material. The man actually made "Lazy Lizzie" sound like it should be on Pet Sounds Part Deux. Yes, he was right about "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling" and "Sherry, She Needs Me", but still he is/was a Brianista of the highest order. I also agree that he didn't give Denny and Carl enough credit for their helping out with their brother. I also think the Beautiful Dreamer doc was complete garbage. At first I liked it, but then I realized what a one-sided portrait was being painted, and how this was the equivalent of an infomercial for BWPS. It was after this that I realized how ridiculous it was that he nearly always ignores the other Beach Boys.

On the other hand I gotta say that I really did enjoy his Harry Nilsson documentary.

Thanks I am really excited for everyone here to read it. I am very hopeful that I can get it out. I am open to any suggestions publisher wise.

Wirestone as far as David, if he is brought up I say my piece. Sure I am openly not fond of him, but my beef today is not so much that he was rude, but that his work is slanted. No he alone did not make up the myths but he sure as hell convinced a lot of people of them. If you read my book you will see I am hard on all the guys (including Brian) when I feel they didn't give things the effort they should. I think you can see that on my posts, and yes I dislike the p.r. since 1976 on all of them. My point though is that when The Beach Boys were in their pre Endless Summer prime, they all did some great work. Brian and Dennis were one of a kind talents, but the others helped make it happen. Carl, Mike, Bruce, Al, David, Ricky, and Blondie all had considerable things to offer, and Brian (and in later years Dennis) brought out the best in them. That the Beach Boys were a great group is all I ever wanted to say, and I hope that my work offers proof of my view.

My thing with anyone I write about is that the facts are more interesting then the myths. I try to form my own opinions, and also try to be even about things that are either over rated or under rated. My book is subjective as far as how I personally rate the music, but my goal is that the facts are presented in a way that let's the reader form his or her own view. Maybe my views can be thought provoking or informative, but I try to make sure that people understand that they are just my views.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Well put Mike (and Jon, as well).

[MBE]

Well put Mike (and Jon, as well).

Thanks
BTW what are Cornuts?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

These f*ckers.

[MBE]

These f*ckers.

Oh yeah I don't think I ever tried them ! Fritos are good though.

[Smilin Ed H]

"Is this true?
what's your source?"


A journalist friend recently 'interviewed' Brian (from which he's just recovering) and was told by the lad himself.

[Loaf]

I approached David Leaf for an autograph at the intermission during the 2nd London RFH Pet Sounds gig in January 2002. He asked how old i was (22), how many people i came with (none), and gave me a meet & greet pass for after the show.

Have I ever been happier in my entire life than that day? Possibly...

[The Shift]

I approached David Leaf for an autograph at the intermission during the 2nd London RFH Pet Sounds gig in January 2002. He asked how old i was (22), how many people i came with (none), and gave me a meet & greet pass for after the show.

Have I ever been happier in my entire life than that day? Possibly...

You're not related?   

Seriously, this thread is an eye-opener. Leaf's book helped fuel a fire in me for this music and I can't take that away. Yes, his DB doc was very one-sided, yes his punctuation in sleeve notes could do with some attention, yes he's a Brianista. But he pointed me in the right direction, ultimately.  Jon, Peter Carlin, AGD, Craig, and others do a much better job getting the facts right but his enthusiasm rubbed off on me and I suspect many others. In many cases we might not be here, on this board, broke, contemplating the most expensive music purchase of our lives, otherwise! 

[Andrew G. Doe]

Like most folk in the BB (fan) world, David polarizes opinion. He's never been less than kind to me, going back to 1985, but some of his statements and actions have been ill-advised.

[Steve Mayo]

 he has always been very friendly to me. many many times. always.

[LeeDempsey]

Mike, I hate that you had a bad experience with David.  But I recall when you first had your book idea (you may still have been in high school), you were calling and writing people to introduce yourself, and asking for access to any unreleased / unbootlegged tapes that they had, for your research.  That may have gotten David's guard up, and he may never have gotten past that.  After 30 years of collecting, I still have never received a single unreleased tape from David; he's very private in that way.

He also has shunned participation in any projects that relate to the entire group, as opposed to focusing on Brian.  I've talked to other folks who've requested interviews with him for magazine articles on the Beach Boys, and they met with a similar cold reception.

All this aside, I'm excited that you've finished your book!  Unfortunately it's a tough market out there for printed media right now; ESQ's subscription level is off almost 50% from our high-point -- before the proliferation of information on the internet.  Good luck to you, and keep me posted.

Lee

[Amy B.]

i agree with those who say his enthusiasm and romanticism can be valuable in that it draws a lot of people into the BBs fandom. It helped draw me in-- though of course mostly it was the music that drew me in. I believe the Beautiful Dreamer document is not THAT bad and is valuable for the footage it gives us of Brian and the band. I thought criticism of Leaf for implying that Paul McCartney was there on the opening night of SMiLE was petty, as filmmakers often take those liberties. But it's true that there are some gaping holes in the story Leaf tells.

Leaf's reduction of the story to the simplistic "these are the heroes and these are the villains" viewpoint often happens in history textbooks, too. And it's dangerous and irresponsible and unfair. But the romanticism does draw people in. I remember seeing the A&E Biography of Brian, where David Leaf discusses that photo of Brian as a high school senior, with ink on his shirt. I think Carlin explained in his book that Brian spilled it himself and posed for the photo as a joke. But David Leaf ignores the ink and says the fact that Brian is standing apart from his classmates looking sad is indicative of how "different" he always felt. I couldn't help but roll my eyes when I saw that. It's an example of how Leaf takes a grain of truth (Brian IS different) and spins it into something that's not accurate. But what a tragic hero Brian makes, eh?

[Steve Mayo]

hmmmm..

[Jason]

The proliferation of uncirculated material usually depends on those individuals who have it to begin with. Trust is a big thing. As is keeping your mouth shut.

[Amy B.]

hmmmm..out of here

What? What'd I say?

[Jason]

I'm thinking Steve might have reacted to my post, but that was not aimed at anyone in particular. Just the law of the land. It's like that with any band that has fans trading unbootlegged stuff.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

Rocky Pamplin is one detestable person from what he did to all the Wilson brothers. Not sure what David's been up to...

What did he do?

Beat up Carl and Dennis along with having an affair with Brian's wife.

Beet up Carl? I can understand why someone would want to fight Dennis, but Carl?

It makes me think of this

http://youtu.be/_PbZgY40HAI

[Jason]

The Gaines book details an incident in early 1978 during the group's Australian tour. Allegedly, Brian had been provided by either cocaine or heroin by Dennis or someone close to Dennis. Somehow or another, Carl was implicated in the situation as he also had a bad heroin and cocaine habit around that time. When Rocky pressured Carl for information and Carl told him "f*ck you", Rocky punched Carl out and told him "don't ever tell me to get f*cked".

How ironic that Rocky was so anti-drugs with the Beach Boys and he later allegedly ended up in Hawaii as a raging coke addict.

BTW, if you ever find Rocky Pamplin's rendition of To Sir With Love (with Brian on piano) online, TREAD CAREFULLY. It is HIDEOUS.

[Jon Stebbins]

Beet up Carl? I can understand why someone would want to fight Dennis, but Carl?

More liked knocked Carl out with one punch. And he didn't exactly "fight" Dennis. He and Stan Love ambushed him, blindsided him, and beat him to a pulp with furniture...nothing close to an actual fight.

[Myk Luhv]

Yeah, that part of Gaines's book was totally f***ed up... Pamplin seemed like a total sleaze-bag too, for obvious reasons!

[MBE]

Mike, I hate that you had a bad experience with David.  But I recall when you first had your book idea (you may still have been in high school), you were calling and writing people to introduce yourself, and asking for access to any unreleased / unbootlegged tapes that they had, for your research.  That may have gotten David's guard up, and he may never have gotten past that.  After 30 years of collecting, I still have never received a single unreleased tape from David; he's very private in that way.

He also has shunned participation in any projects that relate to the entire group, as opposed to focusing on Brian.  I've talked to other folks who've requested interviews with him for magazine articles on the Beach Boys, and they met with a similar cold reception.

All this aside, I'm excited that you've finished your book!  Unfortunately it's a tough market out there for printed media right now; ESQ's subscription level is off almost 50% from our high-point -- before the proliferation of information on the internet.  Good luck to you, and keep me posted.

Lee

Hi Lee yes I was just out of high school when I had the idea for the book. If I recall correctly I didn't ask David for tapes, but did want to interview him or get some advice on the writing business. I did make it clear it was a Beach Boys book, but I really tried to be low key with him. I had no problem with him not wanting to help out, but I just wish he had been a little more kind about it. It was just kind of shocking especally at the age I was. But you know what, it toughened me up and made me more determind to get the facts straight. Also I make a point to be polite to anyone I come into contact with, so in the long run it helped me. 

I do want to thank you for your help and support when I got started. I will be sure to mention ESQ in the book and how to subscribe. I think I have some good people behind it and I just got an offer from a major publisher to do an Elvis book. Hopefully that and everything else I have been a part of over the last ten years will make it possible The Beach Boys book to get out there. As it was my first real idea for a book it's kind of like my baby.  I won't give up on it and I hope our friend Jimmy Carpenter (who I have worked with many times) will be able to do the design. Take care

[MBE]

Beet up Carl? I can understand why someone would want to fight Dennis, but Carl?

More liked knocked Carl out with one punch. And he didn't exactly "fight" Dennis. He and Stan Love ambushed him, blindsided him, and beat him to a pulp with furniture...nothing close to an actual fight.

The thing was Rocky seemed proud of this stuff in the book! Gaines mentioned on here a few years back he actually has a tape of the 1978 meeting with David Frost where Carl gets punched.