Surf's Up (Part 2)

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Instead of using the "Box Set" Thread, lets use this.

I believe that there IS a second movement to Surfs Up, However, it may not have ever been recorded.

Here's the session worksheet for Surf's Up (Part 1):



Notice the "(Movement 1) tag, this proves that a movement 2 EXISTS but MAY NOT HAVE BEEN RECORDED.

Now, most people who have "Heard" it describe it as "Weird" and full of horns and strings. We know of a track with strange horns "George!"
however, it is, in my opinion, to humorous to be part of Surf's Up, or be a song in general.
BUT the horns on george do sound a lot like the "falling apart" horns on Surf's Up (The second verse).

So, what do you guys think?

[puni puni]

the horns on george do sound a lot like the "falling apart" horns on Surf's Up (The second verse).

oh wow that's the best part of surf's up
now i suddenly care about a part 2

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Lol, who knows?
Maybe george was just a warm up for surfs up?

[puni puni]

everyone talks about that piece but i've never heard it!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Well, there's no doubt that there's a second movement. Brian wrote the melody, Parks wrote the lyrics, and it was demoed. The question is whether or not Brian figured out what he was going to do with it, and recorded it. As for the former, I honestly find it difficult to believe that at the height of his creative peak, Brian would have figured out the first movement and not the second. I'm sure he had a pretty good idea how it was going to sound. It seems to me that he frequently knew how his track was going to end up sounding, what the feel was going to be, etc. As for it being recorded, it looks unlikely. Maybe what he had planned seemed so epic that it just never came to fruition. It just seems so strange, though, that he wouldn't have recorded it as it was clearly a song he was proud of and invested in.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Exactly, Brian LOVED Surf's Up, and it was the ONLY SMiLE song the public heard back in 67', so WHY would he NOT record it?

That's what i'm hoping we find out with TSS, or maybe, even a release!?!

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Exactly, Brian LOVED Surf's Up, and it was the ONLY SMiLE song the public heard back in 67', so WHY would he NOT record it?

Because after hearing himself sing it on TV he thought he sounded like a "fairy" and didn't want it to come out anymore.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Exactly, Brian LOVED Surf's Up, and it was the ONLY SMiLE song the public heard back in 67', so WHY would he NOT record it?

A very reasonable question.

That being said, most of us are still confounded why Brian would not finish up work on what was at that point his most advanced music. Even that didn't seem to be TOO far from completion.

Again, though, another point in your favor. I can sort of see why he never quite managed to figure out Heroes and Villains during the Smile period. It never seemed to be a complete song. Even at the stage that Brian is playing it for Humble Harv (which happens to be the same day that Brian records the first movement of Surf's Up), it is only really one verse. Surf's Up though seems to be such a complete package. Or (forgive my stream of consciousness)...maybe, on November 4th, Brian and Parks had only written the first part, knowing that a second part would be required and by the time it was written (early December, hypothetically) the vocal sessions were beginning and then the project fell apart.

Thoughts?

[Bicyclerider]

Exactly, Brian LOVED Surf's Up, and it was the ONLY SMiLE song the public heard back in 67', so WHY would he NOT record it?

Because after hearing himself sing it on TV he thought he sounded like a "fairy" and didn't want it to come out anymore.

He should have recorded it in 1976 with his 15 Big Ones "manly" voice!

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Exactly, Brian LOVED Surf's Up, and it was the ONLY SMiLE song the public heard back in 67', so WHY would he NOT record it?

A very reasonable question.

That being said, most of us are still confounded why Brian would not finish up work on what was at that point his most advanced music. Even that didn't seem to be TOO far from completion.

Again, though, another point in your favor. I can sort of see why he never quite managed to figure out Heroes and Villains during the Smile period. It never seemed to be a complete song. Even at the stage that Brian is playing it for Humble Harv (which happens to be the same day that Brian records the first movement of Surf's Up), it is only really one verse. Surf's Up though seems to be such a complete package. Or (forgive my stream of consciousness)...maybe, on November 4th, Brian and Parks had only written the first part, knowing that a second part would be required and by the time it was written (early December, hypothetically) the vocal sessions were beginning and then the project fell apart.

Thoughts?

I really like this post, comparing the situation of Surf's up to H&V really puts SMiLE into perspective.
Brian knew what he wanted, but he couldn't get it EXACTLY how he wanted, and he is a known perfectionist, so I think that it WAS written and Probably demoed.

I mean, look at H&V part 2, people said "Maybe it exists, maybe not" then we got that released on the GV box.

Now, TSS could give us the "Holy Grail"... lets pray

[The Shift]

Maybe george was just a warm up for surfs up?

That's what I'd always assumed. As FatherOfTheMan states, it is extremely reminiscent of the "Falling Apart" horns in verse 2 (tho' never heard them called that before).

"George" was recorded on November 7, same day as a Surf's Up session; there was another SU session the following day (this info from www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs66.html).   So it follows – in my mind – that the two must be intimately linked, no matter that they're miles apart in terms of sophistication.

[Jason]

George Fell Into His French Horn WAS a Surf's Up overdub session, recorded the day after the tracking session. I doubt it had anything to do with the second movement of Surf's Up.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Maybe george was just a warm up for surfs up?

That's what I'd always assumed. As FatherOfTheMan states, it is extremely reminiscent of the "Falling Apart" horns in verse 2 (tho' never heard them called that before).

"George" was recorded on November 7, same day as a Surf's Up session; there was another SU session the following day (this info from www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/gigs66.html).   So it follows – in my mind – that the two must be intimately linked, no matter that they're miles apart in terms of sophistication.

Just as a comparison for those who haven't heard it, I cut the two parts out and placed them in one file so you can hear (I don't think it's a rule breaker but feel-free to delete the link if it is)
http://www.mediafire.com/?y7x1lofvxomvikv

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

George Fell Into His French Horn WAS a Surf's Up overdub session, recorded the day after the tracking session. I doubt it had anything to do with the second movement of Surf's Up.

It could, however, be a sign of what Brian was thinking about at the time, which could have something to do with the 2nd movement.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I really like this post, comparing the situation of Surf's up to H&V really puts SMiLE into perspective.
Brian knew what he wanted, but he couldn't get it EXACTLY how he wanted, and he is a known perfectionist, so I think that it WAS written and Probably demoed.

Well, I think as far as H&V goes, it was never written as a complete song (at least, as we conventionally think of complete songs) and that's what caused Brian difficulties, particularly when it was chosen as the follow-up single to Good Vibrations, which was currently being a smash. I think the success of GV was a factor. Now the public was really anticipating what was next - the game was on. And at no point in the Smile Sessions from what I've heard so far, does H&V sound ready for a single release nor does it have the kind of hook required to be the kind of hit record that Brian surely wanted before Smile came out. I think that the pressure was enormous for H&V not only because it was to follow up the biggest hit the band ever had, but it could also serve as validation to what Brian had been doing with Smile. Pile on the recording race that was going on at the time and Brian must have felt like anybody feels just before a Tetris game ends and all those blocks seem to be falling faster and there's nothing you can do about it.

I mean, look at H&V part 2, people said "Maybe it exists, maybe not" then we got that released on the GV box.

Okay, but my sense is that was the title given to the collection of extra H&V pieces that Linnet put together for the box set - it wasn't actually anything that Brian put together during the Smile era.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

the slower harpsichord part is "Heroes and Villains Part 2" I think I remember that being proven somewhere...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, there's no doubt that there's a second movement. Brian wrote the melody, Parks wrote the lyrics, and it was demoed.

Source and dates/studio, please ?

Notice the "(Movement 1) tag, this proves that a movement 2 EXISTS but MAY NOT HAVE BEEN RECORDED.

Now, most people who have "Heard" it describe it as "Weird" and full of horns and strings. We know of a track with strange horns "George!"
however, it is, in my opinion, to humorous to be part of Surf's Up, or be a song in general.
BUT the horns on george do sound a lot like the "falling apart" horns on Surf's Up (The second verse).

So, what do you guys think?

1 - proves nothing, other than that someone typed "Surf's Up (Movement 1)" on a Capitol session sheet.

2 - "most people who have heard it"... firstly, that anyone has heard it is third-hand info, and in this instance, those people number exactly 1.

3 - I think... there is no Pt. 2: we'll see in the fullness of time.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I mean, look at H&V part 2, people said "Maybe it exists, maybe not" then we got that released on the GV box.

No, we didn't - we got "H&V" (sections): if it was really "Pt. 2", that's how it would have been listed.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

Why would they write Surf's Up (Movement 1) on a sheet when there's only 1 movement?!

We know there OBVIOUSLY was a 2nd movement planned, that's obvious!

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Well, there's no doubt that there's a second movement. Brian wrote the melody, Parks wrote the lyrics, and it was demoed.

Source and dates/studio, please ?

I think the fact that you know of a demo where Brian sings "Dove nested towers" is sufficient.

[FatherOfTheMan Sr101]

I mean, look at H&V part 2, people said "Maybe it exists, maybe not" then we got that released on the GV box.

No, we didn't - we got "H&V" (sections): if it was really "Pt. 2", that's how it would have been listed.

Part 2 was included as part of the sections, it is added in with the rest of the unused sessions.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Why would they write Surf's Up (Movement 1) on a sheet when there's only 1 movement?!

We know there OBVIOUSLY was a 2nd movement planned, that's obvious!

Movement 1 = first half. Thus:

Movement 1 - up to the second chorus fade

Movement 2 - "Dove nested towers..." up to "A children's song"

Coda - Brian's falsetto wail.

Q, E and most probably, D.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Well, there's no doubt that there's a second movement. Brian wrote the melody, Parks wrote the lyrics, and it was demoed.

Source and dates/studio, please ?

I think the fact that you know of a demo where Brian sings "Dove nested towers" is sufficient.

Said demo was for the entire song, not just the mythical part two - see previous post.

[drbeachboy]

Andrew, is there any chance that the "Dove nested towers..." section is part 2? Considering that the way Surf's Up tracking is presented on the Box Set, that section ends where "Are you sleeping, Brother John" is on the 1971 version. Also, hasn't Brian stated since 2003 that the strings were never recorded for that section of the song?


Later Edit: I see that you answered the The first part of my question, above.

[Andrew G. Doe]

I mean, look at H&V part 2, people said "Maybe it exists, maybe not" then we got that released on the GV box.

No, we didn't - we got "H&V" (sections): if it was really "Pt. 2", that's how it would have been listed.

Part 2 was included as part of the sections, it is added in with the rest of the unused sessions.

Citation, please: I've checked the booklet and this is what it says: "Remember, what you're listening to are unfinished productions, fragments, demos and tracks. Basically the pieces (especially the "Heroes And Villains" vocal sections) have been assembled in what seems like a listenable sequence". No mention of Part 2... not a BW 1966/67 assembly.