Love/Wilson still existing is like Lennon/Mccartney still existing

[oldsurferdude]

[oldsurferdude]

I think he wears pita bread in other places as well

[HighOnLife]

They are. That is not to say they weren't great. As songwriters they were really fantastic. But in many cases they couldn't do their own songs justice as good as other performaers.
And their terrible musicianship on their instruments made some of the early stuff unlistenable (their version of Roll Over Beethoven for example). The early albums have many nice songs but not the timelessnes and sophistication that can be found in the early Beach Boys albums (starting with Surfer Girl)

Are you saying the Beatles were worse on their instruments than the Beach Boys were on theirs in the early 60s?  I'd give the edge to the Beatles as far as debut albums, at the very least.

[pixletwin]

They are. That is not to say they weren't great. As songwriters they were really fantastic. But in many cases they couldn't do their own songs justice as good as other performaers.
And their terrible musicianship on their instruments made some of the early stuff unlistenable (their version of Roll Over Beethoven for example). The early albums have many nice songs but not the timelessnes and sophistication that can be found in the early Beach Boys albums (starting with Surfer Girl)

Are you saying the Beatles were worse on their instruments than the Beach Boys were on theirs in the early 60s?  I'd give the edge to the Beatles as far as debut albums, at the very least.

Agreed. If you had to compare the Beatles and the Beach Boys as musicians c. 1963 I am afraid it would be no contest at all. Easy win for the Fab Four. Brian music was more complex but damnif the Beatles music wasn't more singable to the average joe which is why The Beatles will always be on top of most people's lists.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

I think he wears pita bread in other places as well

"Pita-Depends"

[Rocker]

They are. That is not to say they weren't great. As songwriters they were really fantastic. But in many cases they couldn't do their own songs justice as good as other performaers.
And their terrible musicianship on their instruments made some of the early stuff unlistenable (their version of Roll Over Beethoven for example). The early albums have many nice songs but not the timelessnes and sophistication that can be found in the early Beach Boys albums (starting with Surfer Girl)

Are you saying the Beatles were worse on their instruments than the Beach Boys were on theirs in the early 60s?  I'd give the edge to the Beatles as far as debut albums, at the very least.

Haven't said anything about the Beach Boys' handling of their instruments. But the Beatles were terrible and only got better later.
The Beach Boys had much more complex chords and voicings. I couldn't say at what point the Beatles were far enough to write something as sophisticated as Surfer Girl (the song) or In My Room.
And the Beatles' early songs mostly just sound dated today. They are locked in their time. That would change with later albums but the Beach Boys had achieved a timeless sound much earlier (which is not to say that this goes for each and everyone of their songs).

damnif the Beatles music wasn't more singable to the average joe which is why The Beatles will always be on top of most people's lists.

Well, that's not the point. Everyone has their favorite and that's good. I love the Beatles myself. But this was about the Beatles being overrated.

[MBE]

I like the Beatles but they are over rated. Funny for any flaws I like all their pre Pepper albums very much. I think they tried to make every song the best it could be. Pepper is cool for what it is but some of it is too self conscious. Magical was a crap film but the music was pretty cool. White Album two thirds good, a third is self indulgent. Abbey Road is kind of sterile to me. Some good moments (John's stuff was great) but overall the fun isn't there to me. I don't like the sound really. Let It Be has some bad Spector overdubs but I do like those songs a lot.

[ghost]

When did The Beatles get good enough to write something on par with Surfer Girl or In My Room? I've yet to hear it...

[LetHimRun]

They are. That is not to say they weren't great. As songwriters they were really fantastic. But in many cases they couldn't do their own songs justice as good as other performaers.
And their terrible musicianship on their instruments made some of the early stuff unlistenable (their version of Roll Over Beethoven for example). The early albums have many nice songs but not the timelessnes and sophistication that can be found in the early Beach Boys albums (starting with Surfer Girl)

Are you saying the Beatles were worse on their instruments than the Beach Boys were on theirs in the early 60s?  I'd give the edge to the Beatles as far as debut albums, at the very least.

The average age of the Beatles in 1963 was about 22, while the Beach Boys was 19. When talking of those who actually played instruments, the Beatles were still at 22 because they all played, but the Beach Boys average age drops to 18 because Mike didn't play anything. The youngest Beatle was Paul at 20 while the Beach Boys had David and Carl at 15 and 17 and even Dennis was 19. Both John and Ringo were 23 compared to Brian at 21.

I'd hope the Beatles would have been comparatively a bit more proficient at instrumentation being that they were quite a bit older on average.

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

All I know is Ringo's drumming on those early albums IS WHERE IT'S AT!

[Ganz Allein]

But wait, Lennon wrote a song about Mike on his first solo album:

Love is real , real is Love
Love is feeling , feeling Love
Love is wanting to be Loved
Love is touch, touch is Love
Love is reaching, reaching Love
Love is asking to be Loved
Love is you
You and me
Love is knowing
we can be
Love is free, free is Love
Love is living, living Love
Love is needed to be Loved


...and later in his career he would write another tribute to Mike that the Beatles just HAD to record for their "reunion":

All my little plans and schemes
Lost like some forgotten dream
Seems like all I really was doing
Was waiting for you
Just like little girls and boys
Playing with their little toys
Seems like all they really were doing
Was waiting for you
Don't need to be alone
No need to be alone
It's real LOVE
It's real, yes it's real LOVE...

[MBE]

All I know is Ringo's drumming on those early albums IS WHERE IT'S AT!

Much better then Pete's. Listen to his Love Me Do and you can see why they canned him. He really just wasn't good enough.

[LetHimRun]

All I know is Ringo's drumming on those early albums IS WHERE IT'S AT!

Definitely. Paul's bass playing then did it for me later (along with Ringo's drumming).

[HighOnLife]

The average age of the Beatles in 1963 was about 22, while the Beach Boys was 19. When talking of those who actually played instruments, the Beatles were still at 22 because they all played, but the Beach Boys average age drops to 18 because Mike didn't play anything. The youngest Beatle was Paul at 20 while the Beach Boys had David and Carl at 15 and 17 and even Dennis was 19. Both John and Ringo were 23 compared to Brian at 21.

I'd hope the Beatles would have been comparatively a bit more proficient at instrumentation being that they were quite a bit older on average.

That's a fair point, but was Carl a better guitar player at 22 than George at 22? Brian better than Paul (two days apart)? Dennis better than Ringo?

I'm afraid that overall, the Beatles were just more gifted musicians. Nothing to be ashamed about. McCartney's one of the five greatest bass players ever and Ringo's probably the most influential rock drummer ever.

[ghost]

I think Carl was better than George on guitar. Likewise Dennis > Ringo has more of an energy in his playing. Also Brian > Paul on piano and bass. Let's not forget where Paul learned a lot of his bass tricks...

[Pinder's Gone To Kokomo And Back Again]

If Dennis would have played on all the records and stayed back on drums 24/7, he'd probably be considered one of the top guys, but we all know how the story went. Plus, it doesn't matter. Dennis was a singer/songwriter multi-instrumentalist and that's what we love him for.

As for Ringo: his super solid washing high-hat, heavy kick style of the early records is the most influential drumming of all-time!

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I like the Beatles but they are over rated. Funny for any flaws I like all their pre Pepper albums very much. I think they tried to make every song the best it could be. Pepper is cool for what it is but some of it is too self conscious. Magical was a crap film but the music was pretty cool. White Album two thirds good, a third is self indulgent. Abbey Road is kind of sterile to me. Some good moments (John's stuff was great) but overall the fun isn't there to me. I don't like the sound really. Let It Be has some bad Spector overdubs but I do like those songs a lot.

100% agreed about them being overrated,except I actually highly prefer the post-Pepper work. But then again, I'm not that crazy about rock pre-1966 anyway.

[Shady]

Beatles are crazy overrated..

Beach Boys any day

[Ganz Allein]

I think Carl was better than George on guitar. Likewise Dennis > Ringo has more of an energy in his playing. Also Brian > Paul on piano and bass. Let's not forget where Paul learned a lot of his bass tricks...

It's very true that Paul learned a lot about the use of the bass line in songwriting and arranging from Brian. He's been quoted many times as saying that "Pet Sounds" taught him that you don't always have to play the root note. But I don't think Brian had quite the skills that Paul did on the actual bass guitar. Now, Brian's left-hand bass playing on the piano is quite another thing altogether...

[pixletwin]

Yes, The Beatles are overrated.

Yes The Beach Boys are underrated.

Somewhere in the middle I think is the where the truth lies for both groups.

[MBE]

Yes, The Beatles are overrated.

Yes The Beach Boys are underrated.

Somewhere in the middle I think is the where the truth lies for both groups.

Probably so.
That's funny Billy. I love 1951-65 in all sorts of music. After the early seventies I lose interest, and most everything done in the last 30 years doesn't do it for me.

[ghost]

I think Carl was better than George on guitar. Likewise Dennis > Ringo has more of an energy in his playing. Also Brian > Paul on piano and bass. Let's not forget where Paul learned a lot of his bass tricks...

It's very true that Paul learned a lot about the use of the bass line in songwriting and arranging from Brian. He's been quoted many times as saying that "Pet Sounds" taught him that you don't always have to play the root note. But I don't think Brian had quite the skills that Paul did on the actual bass guitar. Now, Brian's left-hand bass playing on the piano is quite another thing altogether...

I don't know man, Brian gets pretty fly on songs like I Get Around live. It's hard to play bass and sing - especially Wilson songs! He played Surfer Girl and sang like it was nothing. Barely even looking at what he was playing. I've never seen or heard proof but I'm pretty sure Brian can play guitar as well.

[Chris Brown]

I think Carl was better than George on guitar. Likewise Dennis > Ringo has more of an energy in his playing. Also Brian > Paul on piano and bass. Let's not forget where Paul learned a lot of his bass tricks...

It's very true that Paul learned a lot about the use of the bass line in songwriting and arranging from Brian. He's been quoted many times as saying that "Pet Sounds" taught him that you don't always have to play the root note. But I don't think Brian had quite the skills that Paul did on the actual bass guitar. Now, Brian's left-hand bass playing on the piano is quite another thing altogether...

I don't know man, Brian gets pretty fly on songs like I Get Around live. It's hard to play bass and sing - especially Wilson songs! He played Surfer Girl and sang like it was nothing. Barely even looking at what he was playing. I've never seen or heard proof but I'm pretty sure Brian can play guitar as well.

It's been said that he could pick up just about any instrument and play (competently, no less), at least back in the 60's.  One of my favorite Desper stories is of a time when he saw Brian knock out a drum part out of nowhere - "Hal Blaine at his best" was the exact wording he used.  So I would imagine that guitar was in his arsenal too, at least on a fundamental level.

[ghost]

I think Carl was better than George on guitar. Likewise Dennis > Ringo has more of an energy in his playing. Also Brian > Paul on piano and bass. Let's not forget where Paul learned a lot of his bass tricks...

It's very true that Paul learned a lot about the use of the bass line in songwriting and arranging from Brian. He's been quoted many times as saying that "Pet Sounds" taught him that you don't always have to play the root note. But I don't think Brian had quite the skills that Paul did on the actual bass guitar. Now, Brian's left-hand bass playing on the piano is quite another thing altogether...

I don't know man, Brian gets pretty fly on songs like I Get Around live. It's hard to play bass and sing - especially Wilson songs! He played Surfer Girl and sang like it was nothing. Barely even looking at what he was playing. I've never seen or heard proof but I'm pretty sure Brian can play guitar as well.

It's been said that he could pick up just about any instrument and play (competently, no less), at least back in the 60's.  One of my favorite Desper stories is of a time when he saw Brian knock out a drum part out of nowhere - "Hal Blaine at his best" was the exact wording he used.  So I would imagine that guitar was in his arsenal too, at least on a fundamental level.

That's a great story. Brian is a total mystery. I mean - does anyone really understand him? How about crawling into bed with Rocky & Marilyn? This guy is so CONFOUNDING.

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Reading this thread and the claims that The Beatles were overrated reminds me of the time when an ex-girlfriend's roommate said of Alfred Hitchcock, "He tried." It was infuriating then and it's infuriating now. But have fun in make-believe land!