W i l d H o n e y

[sockittome]

Am I the only one who used to think LOL stood for 'lots of love...' I love how easy going Wild honey is, it's very relaxing and almost bluesy. A definitely under appreciated BB album.

Yup, you are the only one. Well besides a friend of a friend which certainly made a fool out of herself a couple of times;

- "My grandmother died"
- "Aw, that's so sad - I'm here for you. LOL"

Reminds me of that wretched overused "like" button on Facebook:

-"Sad day.  My uncle got hit by a train"
-Chester Flatbottom likes this.

There's something very wrong with that, but I see it all the time.

[positivemusic]

Am I the only one who used to think LOL stood for 'lots of love...' I love how easy going Wild honey is, it's very relaxing and almost bluesy. A definitely under appreciated BB album.

Yup, you are the only one. Well besides a friend of a friend which certainly made a fool out of herself a couple of times;

- "My grandmother died"
- "Aw, that's so sad - I'm here for you. LOL"

Reminds me of that wretched overused "like" button on Facebook:

-"Sad day.  My uncle got hit by a train"
-Chester Flatbottom likes this.

There's something very wrong with that, but I see it all the time.

Agree with both examples above. I NEVER use "lol" in anything (well, besides just now!). Haha. I have a friend who is a horrible conversationalist in person and an even worse one through instant messenger. If he didn't know what to say back to you (which 9 times out of 10, no matter what the subject, he didn't), he would just write "lol." A perfect, real example would be: Me- "I hope I find another job soon"; him- "lol." Me- "why is that something to laugh at?"; him- "just is. lol" Needless to say, we speak or message very sparingly.

And just to keep things on topic, I love Wild Honey and while listening to 20/20 the other day thought I heard the Wild Honey-tuned piano on the "Time To Get Alone" track. Has anyone else ever thought this?

[hypehat]

To take things resoundedly  off-topic, apparently if your profile on Facebook is deleted (due to you being an arse, or whatever), where your previous likes turned up as  'John Smith likes this', they then come up as 'NOBODY Likes this'.




Which I think is a bit harsh, really.

[sockittome]

Am I the only one who used to think LOL stood for 'lots of love...' I love how easy going Wild honey is, it's very relaxing and almost bluesy. A definitely under appreciated BB album.

Yup, you are the only one. Well besides a friend of a friend which certainly made a fool out of herself a couple of times;

- "My grandmother died"
- "Aw, that's so sad - I'm here for you. LOL"

Reminds me of that wretched overused "like" button on Facebook:

-"Sad day.  My uncle got hit by a train"
-Chester Flatbottom likes this.

There's something very wrong with that, but I see it all the time.

Agree with both examples above. I NEVER use "lol" in anything (well, besides just now!). Haha. I have a friend who is a horrible conversationalist in person and an even worse one through instant messenger. If he didn't know what to say back to you (which 9 times out of 10, no matter what the subject, he didn't), he would just write "lol." A perfect, real example would be: Me- "I hope I find another job soon"; him- "lol." Me- "why is that something to laugh at?"; him- "just is. lol" Needless to say, we speak or message very sparingly.

And just to keep things on topic, I love Wild Honey and while listening to 20/20 the other day thought I heard the Wild Honey-tuned piano on the "Time To Get Alone" track. Has anyone else ever thought this?

Oh yes, back on topic, please.  Sorry for my involvement in the derailment....(lol!)    Considering that TTGA was initially tracked in the WILD HONEY-FRIENDS era, it should be no surprise to hear the detuned piano in there.  Come to think of it, I'm not even sure about when Brian stopped using it. 

I love that detuned piano sound myself.  I think it sets the whole vibe for the WILD HONEY album.  When I first heard it many years ago, I thought it was some sort of electronic piano or early synth!

[positivemusic]

To take things resoundedly  off-topic, apparently if your profile on Facebook is deleted (due to you being an arse, or whatever), where your previous likes turned up as  'John Smith likes this', they then come up as 'NOBODY Likes this'.




Which I think is a bit harsh, really.

I had no idea!! Harsh, indeed, but somewhat funny, still.

[positivemusic]

Am I the only one who used to think LOL stood for 'lots of love...' I love how easy going Wild honey is, it's very relaxing and almost bluesy. A definitely under appreciated BB album.

Yup, you are the only one. Well besides a friend of a friend which certainly made a fool out of herself a couple of times;

- "My grandmother died"
- "Aw, that's so sad - I'm here for you. LOL"

Reminds me of that wretched overused "like" button on Facebook:

-"Sad day.  My uncle got hit by a train"
-Chester Flatbottom likes this.

There's something very wrong with that, but I see it all the time.

Agree with both examples above. I NEVER use "lol" in anything (well, besides just now!). Haha. I have a friend who is a horrible conversationalist in person and an even worse one through instant messenger. If he didn't know what to say back to you (which 9 times out of 10, no matter what the subject, he didn't), he would just write "lol." A perfect, real example would be: Me- "I hope I find another job soon"; him- "lol." Me- "why is that something to laugh at?"; him- "just is. lol" Needless to say, we speak or message very sparingly.

And just to keep things on topic, I love Wild Honey and while listening to 20/20 the other day thought I heard the Wild Honey-tuned piano on the "Time To Get Alone" track. Has anyone else ever thought this?

Oh yes, back on topic, please.  Sorry for my involvement in the derailment....(lol!)    Considering that TTGA was initially tracked in the WILD HONEY-FRIENDS era, it should be no surprise to hear the detuned piano in there.  Come to think of it, I'm not even sure about when Brian stopped using it. 

I love that detuned piano sound myself.  I think it sets the whole vibe for the WILD HONEY album.  When I first heard it many years ago, I thought it was some sort of electronic piano or early synth!

So, did we all pretty much conclude that, despite what is said, the track used for The Beach Boys' version is the same as the Redwood track?

And, I totally agree on the detuned piano. I got my first electronic keyboard shortly after getting Wild Honey and the closest that had to that sound was a "honky tonk" piano setting.

[Heysaboda]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

[Caroline, Now]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

Correct me if I'm wrong, (which someone undoubtedly will) but I think it was Bruce Johnston.

[Newguy562]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

it's called white boy soul. lol

[Curtis Leon]

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

The organ solo in the middle is Bruce Johnson. In the verses, it could either be Brian or Bruce. I'm not entirely sure.

[Heysaboda]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

it's called white boy soul. lol

Hey Newguy, if you want really good "white boy soul" check out Gram Parsons!
Especially on The Flying Burrito Brothers "Gilded Palace of Sin".

 

[MBE]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

Brian most likely.

[Newguy562]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

it's called white boy soul. lol

Hey Newguy, if you want really good "white boy soul" check out Gram Parsons!
Especially on The Flying Burrito Brothers "Gilded Palace of Sin".

 

Isnt Gram Parsons the guy from The Byrds? I remember hearing that name,I think he died i'm not quite sure.

[Aegir]

troll.

[Ram4]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

it's called white boy soul. lol

Hey Newguy, if you want really good "white boy soul" check out Gram Parsons!
Especially on The Flying Burrito Brothers "Gilded Palace of Sin".

 

Isnt Gram Parsons the guy from The Byrds? I remember hearing that name,I think he died i'm not quite sure.

History lesson time...  Gram Parsons was in the Byrds for about 6 months in early 1968.  Hired to replace David Crosby (if you don't count Gene Clark's 2 week return in Oct 1967) instead of just joining the band he completely transformed them into a country band (not a country rock band per se-they were much more hard core country on the one album with him Sweetheart of The Rodeo, but sadly several of the songs he sang on had his vocals replaced due to contractual problems and other factors - but they are available as bonus tracks on various releases).  They even played on the Grand Ole Opry with Gram singing the 2 songs, one of which he switched in his own original for a Merle Haggard tune at the last minute and were greeted with a cool reception to say the least.  He left the band/was fired when he refused to join them on a tour of South Africa, citing his stance against apartheid (though he really wanted to hang with his new pal Keith Richards instead).  He wanted to create "Cosmic American Music" as he called it, and was one of the people credited with fusing country music to rock and even soul.  His two solo albums featured amazing duets with Emmylou Harris, but tragically he died of a drug overdose in 1973 at the age of 26.  He would have been a country music superstar for sure had he lived.  In death, he's become a legend.  He and Emmylou are considered one of the greatest country male/female duos ever, and some of his work is highly regarded (the Byrds album, the Gilded Palace Of Sin album, and his two solo albums are all great).

Back to Wild Honey - when's that new stereo version gonna come out?!

[Newguy562]

Back on to Wild Honey......

I am actually getting heavily into this album for the first time.  (I realize how INSANE that is.)  But man, this is some of the best pop/rock/whatever ever put to vinyl!

Can anyone tell me, who plays organ on the title track?  Nice!

it's called white boy soul. lol

Hey Newguy, if you want really good "white boy soul" check out Gram Parsons!
Especially on The Flying Burrito Brothers "Gilded Palace of Sin".

 

Isnt Gram Parsons the guy from The Byrds? I remember hearing that name,I think he died i'm not quite sure.

History lesson time...  Gram Parsons was in the Byrds for about 6 months in early 1968.  Hired to replace David Crosby (if you don't count Gene Clark's 2 week return in Oct 1967) instead of just joining the band he completely transformed them into a country band (not a country rock band per se-they were much more hard core country on the one album with him Sweetheart of The Rodeo, but sadly several of the songs he sang on had his vocals replaced due to contractual problems and other factors - but they are available as bonus tracks on various releases).  They even played on the Grand Ole Opry with Gram singing the 2 songs, one of which he switched in his own original for a Merle Haggard tune at the last minute and were greeted with a cool reception to say the least.  He left the band/was fired when he refused to join them on a tour of South Africa, citing his stance against apartheid (though he really wanted to hang with his new pal Keith Richards instead).  He wanted to create "Cosmic American Music" as he called it, and was one of the people credited with fusing country music to rock and even soul.  His two solo albums featured amazing duets with Emmylou Harris, but tragically he died of a drug overdose in 1973 at the age of 26.  He would have been a country music superstar for sure had he lived.  In death, he's become a legend.  He and Emmylou are considered one of the greatest country male/female duos ever, and some of his work is highly regarded (the Byrds album, the Gilded Palace Of Sin album, and his two solo albums are all great).

Back to Wild Honey - when's that new stereo version gonna come out?!

Wow he changed their genre of music , he must've been talented and very innovative to so. Now i'm going to check him out and see if i like his work. Certain legends die young but it's better to burn out then fade away. :/

[bluesno1fann]

I'd put the albums from Wild Honey thru Holland up at the very top of the BB catalogue, even over Pet Sounds and Smile.

Many hardcore Brian fans would disagree.... but I completely agree.

As to the Psychedelic debate, I'd say Wild Honey isn't.... bar the title track.

[Mr. Cohen]

Since this topic has been revived, I thought I'd ask a question: how was Brian allowed to record on such bad equipment? Like seriously, he's got these great singles for Wild Honey and he's fronting a group worth millions, and yet it sounds like he's using a car muffler to capture the sounds. How were there not more objections, both from the band and the label? Didn't anyone beg him to rerecord "Wild Honey" or "Darlin'" or "Aren't You Glad" at a professional studio? I know Al has made comment over the years that it felt like Brian was almost sabotaging the group. "Aren't You Glad" with pro equipment is a hit song for Chicago. Brian's instincts were still on the money.

Even "Do It Again", recorded after Friends, has barely passable production for such a big money band, which is especially puzzling since Friends was such a clear, well-produced album. It almost makes you think Al was right.  "Break Away" was better, but you're still left wondering, why couldn't this sound like "Help Me Rhonda"? Why does everything have to be so muddy and buried? I get that Brian was going for the Wall of Sound feel, but honestly, the instrumental gets so lost in "Break Away" (IMO) that it almost comes off as a capella at moments, with some sparse percussion mixed up for rhythmic feel.

Some say Brian didn't have the attention span or whatever to mix things like he used to, but then why didn't he just let the engineers do the heavy lifting? It's so bizarre.

[Stephen W. Desper]

Since this topic has been revived, I thought I'd ask a question: how was Brian allowed to record on such bad equipment? Like seriously, he's got these great singles for Wild Honey and he's fronting a group worth millions, and yet it sounds like he's using a car muffler to capture the sounds. How were there not more objections, both from the band and the label? Didn't anyone beg him to rerecord "Wild Honey" or "Darlin'" or "Aren't You Glad" at a professional studio? I know Al has made comment over the years that it felt like Brian was almost sabotaging the group. "Aren't You Glad" with pro equipment is a hit song for Chicago. Brian's instincts were still on the money.

Even "Do It Again", recorded after Friends, has barely passable production for such a big money band, which is especially puzzling since Friends was such a clear, well-produced album. It almost makes you think Al was right.  "Break Away" was better, but you're still left wondering, why couldn't this sound like "Help Me Rhonda"? Why does everything have to be so muddy and buried? I get that Brian was going for the Wall of Sound feel, but honestly, the instrumental gets so lost in "Break Away" (IMO) that it almost comes off as a capella at moments, with some sparse percussion mixed up for rhythmic feel.

Some say Brian didn't have the attention span or whatever to mix things like he used to, but then why didn't he just let the engineers do the heavy lifting? It's so bizarre.

COMMENT:  Brian and group did not record on "bad" equipment. The same equipment was used to record Wild Honey and Friends.  All the problems you cite are a function of Mastering, not Recording.

As to Break Away being a cappella, that depends on how you wish to mix the song. The track is there but so are many vocals. I suggest you entertain yourself by visiting my website (http://swdstudyvideos.com) and listen to the study-video of Break Away. It depends upon your taste, but listen to Break Away and see if the re-mastered sound agrees with you. I do hear more from the instrumental track then "some sparse percussion" as you put it. What I think you only hear are the pickup drum beats which have a little more presence because they were an added close-miked overdub. I hear all the instruments that are on the tracks. If you don't hear the instrumental backing, suggest you try listening on headphones. Then once you know what to listen for you will hear the instrumental track and the vocal track in a more balanced way when you listen over loudspeakers.    ~swd

[Mr. Cohen]

Well then why was the mastering so poor on Wild Honey and some of the singles? And why does Friends sound so much better than Wild Honey and "Do It Again"? It's mystifying.

[Bicyclerider]

It's more than the mastering - how it was recorded and MIXED is important too.  A stereo remix of Wild Honey could potentially sound much much better, but too many elements added to the mono mix directly would be missing, and some mutitracks are missing as well. 

Why does Friends sound better?  We have Mr. Desper to thank for that.

[Mr. Cohen]

Also, I do agree that you can hear everything in "Break Away". I wasn't being literal in my a capella comment. I'd say, though, that it lacks the clarity of a track like "Help Me Rhonda". The sounds don't necessarily jump out. That said, it is A LOT better than "Do It Again".

Listen to the chorus of "Break Away" starting at about 1:00. On my Spirit of America copy, you hear a BUNCH of vocals, the percussion, and some horn stabs. The rest of the track is still there, I think, but it's essentially acting as a very atmospheric echo. Is there a bass? A guitar? A piano? Hell if I know. Maybe. There's something muddy going on that I can't grasp. For me, it's a step down from "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B".  Like when the guitar comes in at the end of the chorus - again - it just don't pop.

And yes, Mr. Desper, Friends sounds amazing. I love that album, and I don't know about everything you helped the BBs with, but I think  20/20 and the early 70s material sounds good, too. Again, I don't know exactly who or what is responsible for the muddiness on Wild Honey or "Do It Again", but it's there.

[drbeachboy]

Also, I do agree that you can hear everything in "Break Away". I wasn't being literal in my a capella comment. I'd say, though, that it lacks the clarity of a track like "Help Me Rhonda". The sounds don't necessarily jump out. That said, it is A LOT better than "Do It Again".

Listen to the chorus of "Break Away" starting at about 1:00. On my Spirit of America copy, you hear a BUNCH of vocals, the percussion, and some horn stabs. The rest of the track is still there, I think, but it's essentially acting as a very atmospheric echo. Is there a bass? A guitar? A piano? Hell if I know. Maybe. There's something muddy going on that I can't grasp. For me, it's a step down from "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B".  Like when the guitar comes in at the end of the chorus - again - it just don't pop.

And yes, Mr. Desper, Friends sounds amazing. I love that album, and I don't know about everything you helped the BBs with, but I think  20/20 and the early 70s material sounds good, too. Again, I don't know exactly who or what is responsible for the muddiness on Wild Honey or "Do It Again", but it's there.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Break Away in mono (folddown) on Spirit Of America? Only album that it is, and could be why it sounds weird to you. Try the mix on the 2-fer, that is definitely in stereo and I definitley hear guitars strumming in the verses and plenty of sounds in the choruses.

[Mr. Cohen]

So the consensus, then, is that "Break Away" is produced is as good as "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B"? I'm just curious to get others perspectives. I certainly don't think "Break Away" is a badly done in any way, and I believe Brian was intentionally going for a muddier Phil Spector sound. Certainly you can hear that with "Do It Again", although I wonder if it was also a side effect of Brian's recording techniques at the time. He seemed to be adding stuff as he went along. Rather then attempt to rerecord the entire track in a live studio setting to incorporate his new ideas, he'd just throw musical elements on top of musical elements in separate sessions. If stuff got lost or muddy, oh well. Or maybe he wanted it that way. Who knows?

[drbeachboy]

So the consensus, then, is that "Break Away" is produced is as good as "Help Me Rhonda" and "Sloop John B"? I'm just curious to get others perspectives. I certainly don't think "Break Away" is a badly done in any way, and I believe Brian was intentionally going for a muddier Phil Spector sound. Certainly you can hear that with "Do It Again", although I wonder if it was also a side effect of Brian's recording techniques at the time. He seemed to be adding stuff as he went along. Rather then attempt to rerecord the entire track in a live studio setting to incorporate his new ideas, he'd just throw musical elements on top of musical elements in separate sessions. If stuff got lost or muddy, oh well. Or maybe he wanted it that way. Who knows?

Remember too that he didn't have the Wrecking Crew with a dozen or more musicians filling out the soundscape.