hi there

[Andrew G. Doe]

 I remember a picture of
carl in the studio in the house, its a rectangular room, and there was an upright, and some other keyboards I think. He was sitting on the floor...smoking.   Mind is drifting.   I am sure its very important i remember this.

That pic - and you're recalling it correctly - was taken a good five/six years later, when the proper home studio was working: for Smiley Smile and Wild Honey, maybe Friends too, it was more a living room studio. Bit of a lash-up jobbie.

The home studio situation is actually one of the more endearing BB myths - the impression gained is that after Smile collapsed, the band never set foot in a commercial studio again until they came back from the Dutch escapade. In reality, although an increasing amount of work was done at 10452 as the studio improved from very basic 8-track to quad-capable 16-track, the following commercial rooms were used:

Smiley Smile - Sound Recorders, Western
Wild Honey - Wally Heider
Friends - ID Sound
20/20 - Bell Sound (NYC), Capitol, Valentine, ID Sound, Western
Sunflower - Sunset Sound, Gold Star, Valentine
Surf's Up - Sunset Sound
CATP - Village Recorders, Sunset Sound

To be completely accurate, I think the only "Surf's Up" session held at Sunset Sound was the attempted remake of "Surf's Up" itself.  From the evidence I've seen, all of the tracks that actually made it on the album were recorded & mixed at Bellagio (the 1966 backing track for "Surf's Up" being the exception, of course).  Unless someone knows otherwise, that is.

He's right, of course.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Is there an AFM contract for the I Was Made To Love Her BB's session?

Yep...and guess what, no Carol Kaye.  
FYI, it was indeed cut at Wally Heider's (those of you who own the wonderful 1983 Capitol "Rarities" album should already know this!).

No Carol Kaye? I'm surprised at that news, I guess I always assumed it was her or maybe someone said it was her...whatever the case thank you for the info! So if it was not Carol, was it Ron or someone else on bass?

The only people listed on that contract are the six Beach Boys and Diane Rovell, with no indication of instruments played.  The Sea Of Tunes set includes tape from this session, but my recollection is it doesn't reveal who is playing bass.

I think we can narrow it down to one of five.  

As to the highlighted sentence, I think the only person who said it was her was... her.

[The Shift]

Is there an AFM contract for the I Was Made To Love Her BB's session?

Yep...and guess what, no Carol Kaye. 
FYI, it was indeed cut at Wally Heider's (those of you who own the wonderful 1983 Capitol "Rarities" album should already know this!).

No Carol Kaye? I'm surprised at that news, I guess I always assumed it was her or maybe someone said it was her...whatever the case thank you for the info! So if it was not Carol, was it Ron or someone else on bass?

The only people listed on that contract are the six Beach Boys and Diane Rovell, with no indication of instruments played.  The Sea Of Tunes set includes tape from this session, but my recollection is it doesn't reveal who is playing bass.

I think we can narrow it down to one of five. 

Would it help if I confirmed that it weren't me?

[bgas]

Is there an AFM contract for the I Was Made To Love Her BB's session?

Yep...and guess what, no Carol Kaye. 
FYI, it was indeed cut at Wally Heider's (those of you who own the wonderful 1983 Capitol "Rarities" album should already know this!).

No Carol Kaye? I'm surprised at that news, I guess I always assumed it was her or maybe someone said it was her...whatever the case thank you for the info! So if it was not Carol, was it Ron or someone else on bass?

The only people listed on that contract are the six Beach Boys and Diane Rovell, with no indication of instruments played.  The Sea Of Tunes set includes tape from this session, but my recollection is it doesn't reveal who is playing bass.

I think we can narrow it down to one of five. 

Would it help if I confirmed that it weren't me?

Do you know that for sure?

[The Shift]

Is there an AFM contract for the I Was Made To Love Her BB's session?

Yep...and guess what, no Carol Kaye. 
FYI, it was indeed cut at Wally Heider's (those of you who own the wonderful 1983 Capitol "Rarities" album should already know this!).

No Carol Kaye? I'm surprised at that news, I guess I always assumed it was her or maybe someone said it was her...whatever the case thank you for the info! So if it was not Carol, was it Ron or someone else on bass?

The only people listed on that contract are the six Beach Boys and Diane Rovell, with no indication of instruments played.  The Sea Of Tunes set includes tape from this session, but my recollection is it doesn't reveal who is playing bass.

I think we can narrow it down to one of five. 

Would it help if I confirmed that it weren't me?

Do you know that for sure?

It's not on Bellagio 10452 so I assume I wasn't there.

[bgas]

Is there an AFM contract for the I Was Made To Love Her BB's session?

Yep...and guess what, no Carol Kaye. 
FYI, it was indeed cut at Wally Heider's (those of you who own the wonderful 1983 Capitol "Rarities" album should already know this!).

No Carol Kaye? I'm surprised at that news, I guess I always assumed it was her or maybe someone said it was her...whatever the case thank you for the info! So if it was not Carol, was it Ron or someone else on bass?

The only people listed on that contract are the six Beach Boys and Diane Rovell, with no indication of instruments played.  The Sea Of Tunes set includes tape from this session, but my recollection is it doesn't reveal who is playing bass.

I think we can narrow it down to one of five. 

Would it help if I confirmed that it weren't me?

Do you know that for sure?

It's not on Bellagio 10452 so I assume I wasn't there.

For me, the only total confirmation will be CK saying it wasn't you.

[The Shift]

How about if I said it was definitely CK – that way we'll never know.

[guitarfool2002]

Two points:

- Add Wally Heider's to the Smiley Smile column for pro studios used by Brian on that album: Not only was the album given a final edit, assembly, and mix at Heider's, but I always got the impression that final touches and overdubs were added at Heider's as well, similar to how the single mix of Help Me Rhonda got its guitar solo at the last possible stage of the mixing process.

- Re: The I Was Made To Love Her AFM contract - I wonder why the instruments played on the session were not listed on that contract? Could this have been just a vocal session, or is this definitely the instrumental backing session? Having not seen the contract I'm just wondering how it was logged.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Two points:

- Add Wally Heider's to the Smiley Smile column for pro studios used by Brian on that album: Not only was the album given a final edit, assembly, and mix at Heider's, but I always got the impression that final touches and overdubs were added at Heider's as well, similar to how the single mix of Help Me Rhonda got its guitar solo at the last possible stage of the mixing process.

- Re: The I Was Made To Love Her AFM contract - I wonder why the instruments played on the session were not listed on that contract? Could this have been just a vocal session, or is this definitely the instrumental backing session? Having not seen the contract I'm just wondering how it was logged.

An AFM contract supplies the relevant info for the American Federation of Musicians to make proper payments to - and pension deductions from - the session musicians. Vocal sessions are the realm of an entirely different organisation (and when I can remember exactly what it is, I'll surely tell you). As for the instruments not being listed, it's not unusual.

I was only considering recording sessions, not editing, assembling and mastering

[guitarfool2002]

Two points:

- Add Wally Heider's to the Smiley Smile column for pro studios used by Brian on that album: Not only was the album given a final edit, assembly, and mix at Heider's, but I always got the impression that final touches and overdubs were added at Heider's as well, similar to how the single mix of Help Me Rhonda got its guitar solo at the last possible stage of the mixing process.

- Re: The I Was Made To Love Her AFM contract - I wonder why the instruments played on the session were not listed on that contract? Could this have been just a vocal session, or is this definitely the instrumental backing session? Having not seen the contract I'm just wondering how it was logged.

An AFM contract supplies the relevant info for the American Federation of Musicians to make proper payments to - and pension deductions from - the session musicians. Vocal sessions are the realm of an entirely different organisation (and when I can remember exactly what it is, I'll surely tell you). As for the instruments not being listed, it's not unusual.

I was only considering recording sessions, not editing, assembling and mastering

Do we know if any parts were added - vocal or otherwise - when Jim Lockert talked about the marathon session at Heider's where Smiley Smile was finished up? I thought there was a possibility that some vocals may have been added there too, reading into what he said. Just wondering.

The AFM contracts I have access to are only the ones on Denny Tedesco's website, so I'm going by those. For the handful of Beach Boys AFM sheets reprinted there, Mike Love is listed on the Fun Fun Fun session, and I'm guessing he didn't play anything...yet he's listed there as a member of Local 47, as were the other BB's who turn up on other sessions. And a related session was Valleri by The Monkees where all 4 members are logged on the sheet even though Davy didn't play anything instrumental but sang the lead, and they're members of Local 47 too.

It's confusing to see the vocalists and the instrumentalists listed there and trying to make sense of who-did-what on those tunes. That was my confusion with I Was Made To Love Her as well.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Two points:

- Add Wally Heider's to the Smiley Smile column for pro studios used by Brian on that album: Not only was the album given a final edit, assembly, and mix at Heider's, but I always got the impression that final touches and overdubs were added at Heider's as well, similar to how the single mix of Help Me Rhonda got its guitar solo at the last possible stage of the mixing process.

- Re: The I Was Made To Love Her AFM contract - I wonder why the instruments played on the session were not listed on that contract? Could this have been just a vocal session, or is this definitely the instrumental backing session? Having not seen the contract I'm just wondering how it was logged.

An AFM contract supplies the relevant info for the American Federation of Musicians to make proper payments to - and pension deductions from - the session musicians. Vocal sessions are the realm of an entirely different organisation (and when I can remember exactly what it is, I'll surely tell you). As for the instruments not being listed, it's not unusual.

I was only considering recording sessions, not editing, assembling and mastering

Do we know if any parts were added - vocal or otherwise - when Jim Lockert talked about the marathon session at Heider's where Smiley Smile was finished up? I thought there was a possibility that some vocals may have been added there too, reading into what he said. Just wondering.

The AFM contracts I have access to are only the ones on Denny Tedesco's website, so I'm going by those. For the handful of Beach Boys AFM sheets reprinted there, Mike Love is listed on the Fun Fun Fun session, and I'm guessing he didn't play anything...yet he's listed there as a member of Local 47, as were the other BB's who turn up on other sessions. And a related session was Valleri by The Monkees where all 4 members are logged on the sheet even though Davy didn't play anything instrumental but sang the lead, and they're members of Local 47 too.

It's confusing to see the vocalists and the instrumentalists listed there and trying to make sense of who-did-what on those tunes. That was my confusion with I Was Made To Love Her as well.

The AFMs list musicians, the session leader and also the contractor (on almost all of Smile, that was Diane. Sometimes Chuck's name turns up, as leader or as a musician. That was simply Brian making sure he got a few more bucks, as both leader and contractor were paid double scale. Thus:

Surf's Up (1/23/67, Western: 3.00pm-6.00pm)

Hal Blaine (leader) - $173.34 ($13.78 pension contribution @ 8%)
Diane Rovell (contractor) - 173.34 (13.78)
Charles D. Britz - 86.67 (6.93)

... and seven other musicians, including Carl.

That's for a standard three hour session. Go over that, and you're in the money: for an 11/4/66 session also for "Surf's Up", which was - for Chuck, anyway -  a four hour gig, he was paid $244.04, or an extra $70.61 for the additional hour (at roughly time and a quarter).

So, if you were leader on say three three-hour sessions a day, before taxes, you'd make $520: half that if you were just a player.

[guitarfool2002]

When Mike Love is listed on Fun Fun Fun, and Davy Jones on Valleri, they were only singers as far as I know, and neither played an instrument on the songs. Were their names added just so they could get paid a bit extra, or were some sessions including vocalists too? It's not adding up why Mike as the vocalist would appear on that AFM sheet if he didn't play. Chuck and Diane were handling jobs classified by the union, so their names would be expected to appear.

Also, is the singers' union you were thinking of AFTRA? If so, are the various Beach Boys members of AFTRA too, as vocalists? I don't think I've ever seen that addressed in these discussions.

[Roger Ryan]

When Mike Love is listed on Fun Fun Fun, and Davy Jones on Valleri, they were only singers as far as I know, and neither played an instrument on the songs. Were their names added just so they could get paid a bit extra, or were some sessions including vocalists too? It's not adding up why Mike as the vocalist would appear on that AFM sheet if he didn't play. Chuck and Diane were handling jobs classified by the union, so their names would be expected to appear.

Also, is the singers' union you were thinking of AFTRA? If so, are the various Beach Boys members of AFTRA too, as vocalists? I don't think I've ever seen that addressed in these discussions.

Did Mike and Davy play tambourine or some other kind of light percussive instrument on those sessions? Did Mike add some "finger-popping" to make it a million seller?

[Andrew G. Doe]

When Mike Love is listed on Fun Fun Fun, and Davy Jones on Valleri, they were only singers as far as I know, and neither played an instrument on the songs. Were their names added just so they could get paid a bit extra, or were some sessions including vocalists too? It's not adding up why Mike as the vocalist would appear on that AFM sheet if he didn't play. Chuck and Diane were handling jobs classified by the union, so their names would be expected to appear.

Also, is the singers' union you were thinking of AFTRA? If so, are the various Beach Boys members of AFTRA too, as vocalists? I don't think I've ever seen that addressed in these discussions.

Thank you, AFTRA it is. Mark A. Moore has AFTRA sheets for Jan & Dean. It stands for American Federation of Television and Radio Artists and they represent professional actors, dancers, singers, and broadcasters.

Re: the highlighted phrase... Diane, yes, but sometimes - as on the example I posted - Chuck is listed as a musician. There's no space on the AFM sheet for the engineer to be noted down, which is logical as his paycheck is met by the studio, not the artist/record company.

[cube_monkey]

99.9999%  of the people reading this think who the heck is interested in this kind of stuff?

why WE  are! 

If this ever gets boring, I can fall back on golf statistics since i have no interest in golf.   

Never knew Al played bass among other interesting things in this topic alone.

I appreciate all the information.  Very funny about the union cracking down on Phillips studio across the street while  there was no attempt to hide the BB's studio. snicker.

jay

[c-man]

When Mike Love is listed on Fun Fun Fun, and Davy Jones on Valleri, they were only singers as far as I know, and neither played an instrument on the songs. Were their names added just so they could get paid a bit extra, or were some sessions including vocalists too? It's not adding up why Mike as the vocalist would appear on that AFM sheet if he didn't play. Chuck and Diane were handling jobs classified by the union, so their names would be expected to appear.

Also, is the singers' union you were thinking of AFTRA? If so, are the various Beach Boys members of AFTRA too, as vocalists? I don't think I've ever seen that addressed in these discussions.

In a lot of cases, AFM contracts for Beach Boys sessions list everyone who was present & contributing to the session (provided they belonged to the Union, of course), hence Mike gets listed when he didn't actually play, but listening to the session tapes, there's a few times where he's sitting in the booth offering comments over the talkback.  Then there's other times when Carl is definitely playing the session even though his name is absent from the contract.  The best way to determine who all was on a given track is to compare the session tape and the contract. 

[onkster]

Wonder how these rates would translate into today's terms. It just makes me wanna take a thousand bucks and go back in time to book some sessions!