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Author Topic: Opera, anybody?  (Read 6070 times)
aeijtzsche
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« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2019, 04:32:02 PM »

I've never seen Wozzeck. It's on the Metropolitan Opera schedule - live performance to be seen in theaters nationwide in U.S. in February. Will do my best to catch it.

I've never seen it in person.  Definitely looking forward to it (now that I live in NYC and can go to everything at the Met).  One of the highlights of my life was when, as a young conservatory student, I got special passes to watch Boulez rehearse the CSO doing a concert version of Lulu.  At the time it seemed so magical--to the extent that when I listen to Lulu now I wonder if I didn't just dream the rehearsal because the subsequent experiences of recordings just have not quite been that magical.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 04:32:43 PM by aeijtzsche » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2019, 04:56:27 AM »

In addition to the overtures I'm doing, I'm also recording the entirety of Handel's Rodelinda, and hoping to sing a lot of it, or get helpers for the lower and higher voices, to sing it in a less classical and more pop way--not to dilute, but to present in a different way, so that I might proselytize on behalf of the music that I love the most--and ultimately the music itself is more important that how it's done (as long as it's done well.)

I've been thinking about this (sorry to bring it up again and disrupt the flow but I have to ask). Say if I were to buy this album tomorrow, would I automatically get the rest of it over time? Does Bandcamp work that way? Or should I wait? I'd be most interested to hear it, you see.
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« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2019, 05:48:50 AM »

In addition to the overtures I'm doing, I'm also recording the entirety of Handel's Rodelinda, and hoping to sing a lot of it, or get helpers for the lower and higher voices, to sing it in a less classical and more pop way--not to dilute, but to present in a different way, so that I might proselytize on behalf of the music that I love the most--and ultimately the music itself is more important that how it's done (as long as it's done well.)

I've been thinking about this (sorry to bring it up again and disrupt the flow but I have to ask). Say if I were to buy this album tomorrow, would I automatically get the rest of it over time? Does Bandcamp work that way? Or should I wait? I'd be most interested to hear it, you see.

Well, that is a good question, and I honestly am not sure how Bandcamp works!  I'm flattered that you are so interested.  I suppose I would advise holding off.  It's a pretty loose timeline to completion--I'm sort of hoping to be able to do some equipment upgrades on the recording end and there's some instrument maintenance/upgrades that are necessary.  I want to do a really, really good job on it; and for it to sound pretty crisp.  So it may be a little while.  I'd love to have act one done this year but my ship will have to come in for that to happen.

That said, I do have a number of what I would call test recordings in various stages that I could share.  Perhaps I'll put some of those on my SoundCloud.  Actually some early feedback from people who know something about opera could be helpful.
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« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2019, 06:01:59 AM »

https://soundcloud.com/user-826159106

There's a few demos.  Only Dove Sei and "Fra Tempeste w vox" have vocals.  They are all more "proof of concept" experiments right now.  I do have a few that are more like "done" but I'll withhold those for now.

Apologizes if this is blurring the line between Music discussion and Making Music discussion.

I really do love Handel though, and I think he's just an extremely gifted, sassy, competent melodist and I'd love to get people who would not otherwise inclined to listen to him to listen to him!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 01:36:29 PM by aeijtzsche » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2019, 02:34:51 PM »

In addition to the overtures I'm doing, I'm also recording the entirety of Handel's Rodelinda, and hoping to sing a lot of it, or get helpers for the lower and higher voices, to sing it in a less classical and more pop way--not to dilute, but to present in a different way, so that I might proselytize on behalf of the music that I love the most--and ultimately the music itself is more important that how it's done (as long as it's done well.)

I've been thinking about this (sorry to bring it up again and disrupt the flow but I have to ask). Say if I were to buy this album tomorrow, would I automatically get the rest of it over time? Does Bandcamp work that way? Or should I wait? I'd be most interested to hear it, you see.

Well, that is a good question, and I honestly am not sure how Bandcamp works!  I'm flattered that you are so interested.  I suppose I would advise holding off.  It's a pretty loose timeline to completion--I'm sort of hoping to be able to do some equipment upgrades on the recording end and there's some instrument maintenance/upgrades that are necessary.  I want to do a really, really good job on it; and for it to sound pretty crisp.  So it may be a little while.  I'd love to have act one done this year but my ship will have to come in for that to happen.

That said, I do have a number of what I would call test recordings in various stages that I could share.  Perhaps I'll put some of those on my SoundCloud.  Actually some early feedback from people who know something about opera could be helpful.

OK, I'll wait! Whatever it takes, time-wise. Thanks for getting back to me on this. I just think it's a fascinating project, one that clearly means a lot to you. And I like the philosophy behind it--making music that you love accessible and/or acceptable to others without dumbing down.   
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« Reply #55 on: October 27, 2019, 02:55:52 PM »

In addition to the overtures I'm doing, I'm also recording the entirety of Handel's Rodelinda, and hoping to sing a lot of it, or get helpers for the lower and higher voices, to sing it in a less classical and more pop way--not to dilute, but to present in a different way, so that I might proselytize on behalf of the music that I love the most--and ultimately the music itself is more important that how it's done (as long as it's done well.)

I've been thinking about this (sorry to bring it up again and disrupt the flow but I have to ask). Say if I were to buy this album tomorrow, would I automatically get the rest of it over time? Does Bandcamp work that way? Or should I wait? I'd be most interested to hear it, you see.

Well, that is a good question, and I honestly am not sure how Bandcamp works!  I'm flattered that you are so interested.  I suppose I would advise holding off.  It's a pretty loose timeline to completion--I'm sort of hoping to be able to do some equipment upgrades on the recording end and there's some instrument maintenance/upgrades that are necessary.  I want to do a really, really good job on it; and for it to sound pretty crisp.  So it may be a little while.  I'd love to have act one done this year but my ship will have to come in for that to happen.

That said, I do have a number of what I would call test recordings in various stages that I could share.  Perhaps I'll put some of those on my SoundCloud.  Actually some early feedback from people who know something about opera could be helpful.

OK, I'll wait! Whatever it takes, time-wise. Thanks for getting back to me on this. I just think it's a fascinating project, one that clearly means a lot to you. And I like the philosophy behind it--making music that you love accessible and/or acceptable to others without dumbing down.   

Let me know if what you hear in the demos seems promising!
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« Reply #56 on: October 27, 2019, 02:57:11 PM »

https://soundcloud.com/user-826159106

There's a few demos.  Only Dove Sei and "Fra Tempeste w vox" have vocals.  They are all more "proof of concept" experiments right now.  I do have a few that are more like "done" but I'll withhold those for now.

Wow, thanks! I have some time tomorrow so I'll give them a close listen. I hope others will too.

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I really do love Handel though, and I think he's just an extremely gifted, sassy, competent melodist and I'd love to get people who would not otherwise inclined to listen to him to listen to him!

I rather think I fall into that category and I've been listening to him all week so you have at least one convert. Before now, the only Handel piece that really floored me was "Zadok the Priest"--real shivers-down-the-spine stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiXgOQ9_-RI
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« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2019, 03:15:14 PM »

The thing about people like Handel, and anybody who wrote a lot of stuff, is that of course there's going to be crap.  Rodelinda is my favourite Handel opera and there's a couple numbers that are just so boring.  I think 50% of Messiah is super boring.  But then there are these great moments that are so great.  And I think that people don't get the sense of fun that Handel put into a lot of his opera, and to a lesser extent the oratiorios.

It's such a contrast, because Zadok is, as you mention, this profound expression of religious feeling--but on the other hand, there's something like "Fra L'ombre e gl'orrori" from Aci, Galatea e Polifemo, which, ok is not strictly speaking an opera, but that number is just so ridiculous in what it asks of the singer and on paper looks hilarious, but the effect is so stunning in an equally profound way.  (Not unlike the founder of our feast Brian Wilson...?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFcY40h-vH8
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« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2019, 03:50:09 PM »

The thing about people like Handel, and anybody who wrote a lot of stuff, is that of course there's going to be crap.  Rodelinda is my favourite Handel opera and there's a couple numbers that are just so boring.  I think 50% of Messiah is super boring.  But then there are these great moments that are so great.  And I think that people don't get the sense of fun that Handel put into a lot of his opera, and to a lesser extent the oratiorios.

It's such a contrast, because Zadok is, as you mention, this profound expression of religious feeling--but on the other hand, there's something like "Fra L'ombre e gl'orrori" from Aci, Galatea e Polifemo, which, ok is not strictly speaking an opera, but that number is just so ridiculous in what it asks of the singer and on paper looks hilarious, but the effect is so stunning in an equally profound way.  (Not unlike the founder of our feast Brian Wilson...?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFcY40h-vH8

I just had to hear this before turning in. Ye gods--two and a half octaves and if that's not enough Purves sneaks in a low A! Shocked

It's been a good day. BW has a lot to answer for!
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« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2019, 07:58:20 AM »

Let me know if what you hear in the demos seems promising!

I'd say it's more than promising, JH. Please keep up with this project because the end result I know will be really special. I hope others who are following its progress will exercise patience--it looks as if it will take years rather than months. But it will be well worth the wait!

I've linked "Dove sie, amato bene" elsewhere as it gives the best idea of what it will eventually sound like. I really love those vocal harmonies towards the end!

Perhaps you should give it its own topic in the "Who Make Music" section. It would be a shame if it got lost among everything else in this thread.
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« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2019, 11:01:09 AM »

Let me know if what you hear in the demos seems promising!

I'd say it's more than promising, JH. Please keep up with this project because the end result I know will be really special. I hope others who are following its progress will exercise patience--it looks as if it will take years rather than months. But it will be well worth the wait!

I've linked "Dove sie, amato bene" elsewhere as it gives the best idea of what it will eventually sound like. I really love those vocal harmonies towards the end!

Perhaps you should give it its own topic in the "Who Make Music" section. It would be a shame if it got lost among everything else in this thread.


Perhaps I will...
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« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2019, 02:05:32 PM »

The thing about people like Handel, and anybody who wrote a lot of stuff, is that of course there's going to be crap.

Haha yes. There's this rather irritating notion floating about that Bach only wrote masterpieces. I wish I could believe that!!   

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Rodelinda is my favourite Handel opera and there's a couple numbers that are just so boring. 

Just an idle thought... Maybe the "synth vocal" you used in "Ho perduto" is a good solution for the two boring numbers. All-synth versions would be even better--sort of a statement to yourself about how boring they are! Grin
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« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2019, 02:47:10 PM »


Haha yes. There's this rather irritating notion floating about that Bach only wrote masterpieces. I wish I could believe that!!   





Of course, even if Bach didn't only write masterpieces, his chaff is at least workmanlike.  I think that's what separates the greats, or at least a major component.  And I think that's what is missing in some of the worst music (both then and now).  Bach and Handel may not have been inspired at all moments when composing, but even when the art was lacking, the craft was there.  So even the boring stuff is "good" in a way.

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« Reply #63 on: October 29, 2019, 03:51:59 AM »

This week, the cultural TV programme we in NL have on Sunday afternoons included the "Letter Scene" from Eugene Onegin, here sung by Anna Netrebko under Gergiev from a Met performance six years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d56MMagyMXs

Of course, even if Bach didn't only write masterpieces, his chaff is at least workmanlike.  I think that's what separates the greats, or at least a major component.  And I think that's what is missing in some of the worst music (both then and now).  Bach and Handel may not have been inspired at all moments when composing, but even when the art was lacking, the craft was there.  So even the boring stuff is "good" in a way.

Bach is my next challenge (he has been for decades). For me Bach is Glenn Gould, Leopold Stokowski and Alban Berg (the Bach quote in his Violin Concerto). And not much else. I don't think it helps that insensitive performances can sound more like sawing wood than making music.

That said... we attended two magical performances of his Weihnachtsoratorium a few years back, one in Weimar by an amateur company and the next (the following night!) in Leipzig, in the church where Bach played the organ. Once again, context can be important (and any concert attended on holiday is special). 

While I'm here: I won't comment on your recent additions to the Handel French Ouvertures in that section of the forum, although I shall give them a listen later today. It may attract more views (and listens) if your name is there rather than mine ("Not him again!").
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« Reply #64 on: October 29, 2019, 11:22:56 AM »


Bach is my next challenge (he has been for decades). For me Bach is Glenn Gould, Leopold Stokowski and Alban Berg (the Bach quote in his Violin Concerto). And not much else. I don't think it helps that insensitive performances can sound more like sawing wood than making music.

That said... we attended two magical performances of his Weihnachtsoratorium a few years back, one in Weimar by an amateur company and the next (the following night!) in Leipzig, in the church where Bach played the organ. Once again, context can be important (and any concert attended on holiday is special). 


Interesting to hear about your experience with Bach.  It's true that Bach (well, and all music) needs sensitive performers who know what they are doing.  With Bach, many of the people doing serious historical scholarship informed readings of his work are doing a great job--but more and more ensembles are versatile now and know how to incorporate the baroque gestures that suit the music best. 

I went to a performance of Bach's Magnificat last year for my home-town's "Bach Festival" and it was such a bloated affair, with the symphony chorus flooding the very reflective performance space with nearly 200 voices.  Oof.

Nevertheless, I hope you overcome your Bach challenge.  He is much more than Gould, Stokowski, and Berg!
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« Reply #65 on: October 29, 2019, 03:39:07 PM »

Interesting to hear about your experience with Bach.  It's true that Bach (well, and all music) needs sensitive performers who know what they are doing.  With Bach, many of the people doing serious historical scholarship informed readings of his work are doing a great job--but more and more ensembles are versatile now and know how to incorporate the baroque gestures that suit the music best.  

I went to a performance of Bach's Magnificat last year for my home-town's "Bach Festival" and it was such a bloated affair, with the symphony chorus flooding the very reflective performance space with nearly 200 voices.  Oof.

Nevertheless, I hope you overcome your Bach challenge.  He is much more than Gould, Stokowski, and Berg!

I really appreciate your encouragement, JH. I'll try to keep this short (famous last words!):

Here in the Netherlands (I emigrated here from the UK), Bach is everywhere, more so than Mozart, Beethoven or anyone else. You hear him all day on the radio. Every Easter, throughout the country, literally hundreds of Dutch choirs of every calibre can be heard singing (or in some cases bellowing) all or part of the St Matthew Passion. This makes it very difficult to step back and take a cool calm look at the man and his music, especially if you're not keen on him to start with.

Now, there's been this fascinating four-part series on Dutch TV in which an intelligent Dutch Bach devotee retreads the man's long trek to Lübeck to see and hear his idol Dieterich Buxtehude. (We watched the last episode an hour ago, after I read your post.) There he spoke with the organist of the Marienkirche (the tenth organist in line after Buxtehude), who described DB and his music, relating it to the "stylus fantasticus", a term I'd never heard before (I've read it up since then). It then struck me that Buxtehude might be a good way in, before tackling Bach himself. It might also give me an idea of what music of Bach's I should listen to first. The organist mentioned that the church's organ was flanked by six balconies and that Buxtehude filled these with musicians for a work in the (another new one on me) "Colossal Baroque" style called Benedicam Dominum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8GMpQHCKUA

So that's what I'm starting with. What a thrilling piece it is too. And then, once I've finished my second Handel comp, it will be the turn of Bach! I'll post on whatever progress I make not here but in the "classical" music topic (I Hear A Symphony). Who would have thought it? Thank you so much for your wise words!
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« Reply #66 on: October 30, 2019, 06:18:37 PM »

I'll comment on Buxtehude in the classical music thread.  Shame he nor Bach ever tried opera but it gets dramatic enough.

I'm likely to go to see Orfeo ed Euridice this Weekend at the Met here in NYC, with Jamie Barton as Orpheus.  Always interesting to hear how the Met tackles older operas.  I'll be sure to report.
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« Reply #67 on: October 31, 2019, 04:49:35 AM »

Shame he nor Bach ever tried opera but it gets dramatic enough.

Maybe their patrons had other ideas (just guessing here). You mean there's drama in the likes of the St. Matthew Passion, which on reflection is almost a concertante opera with recitatives and arias. Actually, my eleven-year-old grandson will be singing in the "ripieno" choir in a performance of that work at our local concert hall next March!

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I'm likely to go to see Orfeo ed Euridice this Weekend at the Met here in NYC, with Jamie Barton as Orpheus.  Always interesting to hear how the Met tackles older operas.  I'll be sure to report.

If you do, enjoy, and yes, please let us know your thoughts on it!
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« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2019, 02:58:04 AM »

I've never seen Wozzeck. It's on the Metropolitan Opera schedule - live performance to be seen in theaters nationwide in U.S. in February. Will do my best to catch it.

For me it would be like seeing the film after reading the book. I own the only recording I'll ever want to hear (see the LP cover I posted on page 2) and the images that recording conjures up for me, so I don't think a staged version would be doing me any favours.

Lulu is a different matter. I have it on CD together with the CD reissue of "my" Wozzeck (somebody kindly scratched the LPs). I love the orchestral suite but have yet to check out the opera itself. One day... Of course, I'm furiously jealous of aeijtzsche getting to hear Pierre Boulez rehearse it! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2019, 09:45:50 PM »

I've never seen Wozzeck. It's on the Metropolitan Opera schedule - live performance to be seen in theaters nationwide in U.S. in February. Will do my best to catch it.

For me it would be like seeing the film after reading the book. I own the only recording I'll ever want to hear (see the LP cover I posted on page 2) and the images that recording conjures up for me, so I don't think a staged version would be doing me any favours.

Lulu is a different matter. I have it on CD together with the CD reissue of "my" Wozzeck (somebody kindly scratched the LPs). I love the orchestral suite but have yet to check out the opera itself. One day... Of course, I'm furiously jealous of aeijtzsche getting to hear Pierre Boulez rehearse it! Roll Eyes


It was miraculous.

Anyway, I've just seen Orfeo ed Eurydice at the Met.  Kind of an odd experience with a technical mishap, a medical pause, and an audience member, apparently ignorant of the ancient myth, gasping and moaning with shocked anguish when Orpheus looks back at his belovèd.

Jamie Barton was a great Orpheus, and I always forget how the opera is basically a choral concerto for Orpheus, with so little singing from the other soloists.  The production was interesting enough.  It's not an easy opera to stage well, I guess.

Not really my favourite music--it can be a little dry for my tastes sometimes.  I liked the excesses that Glück felt like he was correcting.  Nevertheless, the Met orchestra makes it all sound good.  They have definitely learned how to sound like competent players of earlier music than the romantic fare that is the modern opera house's wheelhouse.  Amusing to watch the trumpets and trombones play their one or two lines here and there and then go to the canteen and then come back to play another short passage before turning around to leave again.  The timpanist got to go home after about 10 minutes, I think.

Always a treat to go to the Met, though since moving to NYC it has been sad that it has become a little less the magical event of a lifetime that it was when I had to fly in once a year...  Ah, well.
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« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2019, 03:20:59 AM »

Lulu is a different matter. I have it on CD together with the CD reissue of "my" Wozzeck (somebody kindly scratched the LPs). I love the orchestral suite but have yet to check out the opera itself. One day... Of course, I'm furiously jealous of aeijtzsche getting to hear Pierre Boulez rehearse it! Roll Eyes

It was miraculous.

Anyway, I've just seen Orfeo ed Eurydice at the Met.  Kind of an odd experience with a technical mishap, a medical pause, and an audience member, apparently ignorant of the ancient myth, gasping and moaning with shocked anguish when Orpheus looks back at his belovèd.

I bet that drew a few sniggers! LOL

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Jamie Barton was a great Orpheus, and I always forget how the opera is basically a choral concerto for Orpheus, with so little singing from the other soloists.  The production was interesting enough.  It's not an easy opera to stage well, I guess.

This is a newish area for me so I wasn't familiar with Jamie B (I am now--she is amazing!). So this is what you heard (and saw):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by4ADMts1KQ

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Not really my favourite music--it can be a little dry for my tastes sometimes.  I liked the excesses that Glück felt like he was correcting.
 
You mean such as shortening the da capo arias (I've just been reading about him)? It's a bit like my initial objection to Palestrina, that it was too clean. I've changed my mind since then--anyway, it wasn't P's doing. Tongue 

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Nevertheless, the Met orchestra makes it all sound good.  They have definitely learned how to sound like competent players of earlier music than the romantic fare that is the modern opera house's wheelhouse.  Amusing to watch the trumpets and trombones play their one or two lines here and there and then go to the canteen and then come back to play another short passage before turning around to leave again.  The timpanist got to go home after about 10 minutes, I think.

That reminds me of Berlioz's book Evenings with the Orchestra, where (off the top of my head) the percussion and heavy brass get a thousand bars' rest, break out the sandwiches and tell each other anecdotes--the difference being that the operas they were performing were mainly crap. That's hilarious, that your musicians actually left at such moments! And oh, I see your principal conductor these days is Yannick Nézet-Séguin (he was ours in Rotterdam for ten years), although Mark Wigglesworth conducted Orfeo.       

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Always a treat to go to the Met, though since moving to NYC it has been sad that it has become a little less the magical event of a lifetime that it was when I had to fly in once a year...  Ah, well.

I understand where you're coming from. Still, a lot of people would give an arm or a leg to be in your position right now! Wink
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« Reply #71 on: November 02, 2019, 11:20:49 AM »

I'm ok with shortening long da capo arias, but I miss the devilish vocal showmanship.  I've always liked a little showing off.

I remember my first trip to the Met, in around 2012 I think.  I had been watching the HD broadcasts for years at that point and considered the Met to be the closest thing to heaven on earth, other than Western Studios in LA. When I turned the corner into Lincoln Plaza and saw the front of the Met Opera building, I fell to the ground!  I saw Jonas Kaufmann in Werther and was so transfixed I left my body.  The next night I saw the sort of silly modern pastiche opera "The Enchanted Island" which I actually fell asleep during because of exhaustion, but as I walked down the grand staircase I was so overwhelmed by being there that I collapsed in sobs. 

I can never have that again.  I am grateful to just be able to hop on a subway and go any time I want now, but I miss the glory of my first experiences.
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« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2019, 01:17:37 PM »

I'm ok with shortening long da capo arias, but I miss the devilish vocal showmanship.  I've always liked a little showing off.

I remember my first trip to the Met, in around 2012 I think.  I had been watching the HD broadcasts for years at that point and considered the Met to be the closest thing to heaven on earth, other than Western Studios in LA. When I turned the corner into Lincoln Plaza and saw the front of the Met Opera building, I fell to the ground!  I saw Jonas Kaufmann in Werther and was so transfixed I left my body.  The next night I saw the sort of silly modern pastiche opera "The Enchanted Island" which I actually fell asleep during because of exhaustion, but as I walked down the grand staircase I was so overwhelmed by being there that I collapsed in sobs. 

I can never have that again.  I am grateful to just be able to hop on a subway and go any time I want now, but I miss the glory of my first experiences.

Goodness. Thanks for sharing that, JH. Maybe such moments are not meant to be repeated--I don't know.

See it as something to think back on with pleasure. And to bring to mind if ever you're troubled (which I hope is never the case).
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I'm Grass and You're a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
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« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2019, 01:23:44 PM »


See it as something to think back on with pleasure. And to bring to mind if ever you're troubled (which I hope is never the case).

I'm always troubled!   Grin

I'm trying to decide whether to go see Akhnaten, the Glass opera, next.  I actually really like Satyagraha, but much of Glass's other opera leaves me bored.  Sometimes it is exciting just to try to figure out the time shifts and extreme syncopations during the course of the evening.  The sets look neat, and the primary soloist, Anthony Roth Costanzo, is quite a talent.
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« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2019, 03:58:38 PM »

I'm trying to decide whether to go see Akhnaten, the Glass opera, next.  I actually really like Satyagraha, but much of Glass's other opera leaves me bored.  Sometimes it is exciting just to try to figure out the time shifts and extreme syncopations during the course of the evening.  The sets look neat, and the primary soloist, Anthony Roth Costanzo, is quite a talent.

I saw Akhnaten advertised when I visited the Met site. I really like Glass's film music and love the old Virgin LP of parts one and two of Music in Twelve Parts.  Simply stunning. I couldn't believe my ears when I first heard that. I could do without all that counting in Einstein though. Tongue

H'mm... That's three reasons to see it against one to stay away. if you ask me, JH, it's a cut-and-dried case. Smiley
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"Ik bun moar een eenvoudige boerenlul en doar schoam ik mien niet veur" (Normaal, 1978)
I'm Grass and You're a Power Mower: A Beach Boys Orchestration Web Series
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