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640775 Posts in 25595 Topics by 3639 Members - Latest Member: treblephone December 10, 2018, 11:42:06 AM
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Author Topic: Jazz  (Read 5036 times)
JK
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2017, 01:15:11 AM »

Captain, I may have quizzed you on this before but i remember hearing something French-titled by Miles on a jazz programme on French radio in the late '60s where apparently you could hear that a piece of skin from his lip had attached itself to the trumpet mouthpiece. It must have been from Filles de Kilimanjaro, unless my memory's playing me up (again).

The album that includes the legend you're referring to is actually from the late 50s, not the late 60s, and it was called L'Ascenseur Pour L'echafaud the last word of which looks awfully ugly to be French. Looks German to these damn-near illiterate eyes! Also, for the record, I have no idea what the album title means. Rather than Google it, I'll say "Ascension of German Elves." Also, I say "legend" because it has been pretty seriously questioned. But there are plenty of examples where Miles is blowing through audible spittle, I can say that, disgusting though it might be.

Sad to hear that tune isn't working! I noticed that for some reason, that album has very little available online compared to many, and lots seemed to be blocked in the USA. Perhaps that one is blocked where you are (Netherlands, is it?)

Yep, the Netherlands. Thanks for the clarification! Perhaps just as well that it's a legend----like the audible spittle, it's pretty off-putting, particularly after breakfast.
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Ovi
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 04:50:17 AM »

Nice, thanks. I'm fascinated reading about Miles, even though I'm not familiar with a lot of his music yet. He seems to have pioneered at least 3-4 subgenres of jazz! Is there anybody in rock that can claim to that?

He really did: maybe something like a Bowie or Madonna, it's not exactly that he pioneered, but he was always smart about hopping on and advancing or perfecting things that were bubbling up. If there is anything you like or hate, I'd be really happy to dive in and try to help get you further on those tracks (or off them). I know I've been in and out around here and my time and energy are inconsistent on these things, but this is the kind of effort that is very worthwhile to me.

Do you have a favorite genre?
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
the captain
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2017, 06:28:08 AM »

Nice, thanks. I'm fascinated reading about Miles, even though I'm not familiar with a lot of his music yet. He seems to have pioneered at least 3-4 subgenres of jazz! Is there anybody in rock that can claim to that?

He really did: maybe something like a Bowie or Madonna, it's not exactly that he pioneered, but he was always smart about hopping on and advancing or perfecting things that were bubbling up. If there is anything you like or hate, I'd be really happy to dive in and try to help get you further on those tracks (or off them). I know I've been in and out around here and my time and energy are inconsistent on these things, but this is the kind of effort that is very worthwhile to me.

Do you have a favorite genre?

Of Miles, or in general? Either way, that's a tough one.

With Miles, I tend to like the peaks of almost each era. For example, Birth of the Cool showcases cool better than anything by anyone, in my opinion. I'm less a fan of his first great quintet's music, amazing though it is (Round About Midnight, Walkin, Cookin, etc). Kind of Blue is the high point of his modal kind-of blues (and maybe the high point of jazz). Sketches of Spain is an insanely beautiful jazz-classical hybrid. Miles Smiles to me is the best of his real post-bop mid-60s stuff with the second great quintet. Then there's the electric stuff I've mentioned, which also covers various styles: the songless, dreamy stuff like Bitches Brew or In a Silent Way, the song-oriented Filles, the rock-funk Jack Johnson...

Overall, I like the mid-late 60s music that expanded beyond the solo-like-fire bop AND the overly orchestrated, stiff cool or hybrid stuff. There was a period there where the musicians were just top notch, versatile enough to play legitimate classical music, any previous jazz form, and blues and rock. Albums in that era by people like Miles, Freddie Hubbard, Andrew Hill, Oliver Nelson, Herbie Hancock, Bill Evans, Wayne Shorter, and many others are worth checking out. And yet maybe my favorite musician is Thelonious Monk, whose best work is mostly from the late 50s and early 60s. So there's that.

I should add, I'm not as big a fan of free jazz, such as Ornette Coleman's music or some of Coltrane's later stuff. I'm a pretty big believer in structure as being necessary to frame art. As the great Frank Zappa said in his autobiography, without a frame, it's just "what is that sh*t on the wall?"
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 06:29:18 AM by the captain » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2017, 07:27:44 AM »

Even as a jazz agnostic I have three albums by Miles, Birth of the Cool, Jack Johnson and the magnificent Sketches of Spain, the last of which I heartily recommend.

Sketches of Spain is an insanely beautiful jazz-classical hybrid.

I've just listened to this for the first time. Beautiful, ethereal.
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
the captain
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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2017, 07:56:00 AM »

It's one of several examples of Miles working with Gil Evans with spectacular results. Birth of the Cool, Porgy and Bess, and Quiet Nights are some others. There are more, including one "modern" one in the 80s, but I forget them off the top of my head. (Evans also worked on Filles de Kilimanjaro, uncredited.) But Sketches is to me the best of that pair.
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« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2017, 05:27:31 PM »

I was just watching an interview between Josh Summers and jazz pianist Aaron Goldberg (on meaningoflife.tv, via youtube) in which the latter recommended this approach to getting into jazz: start with late 50s or early 60s Miles Davis, and based on what you like or don't, go from there. The players will be good, so if you like this or that one, just go forward or backward in time as feels appropriate. The implication was that more or less all roads lead to or from Miles.

What do the fellow jazz fans think? Is that the best way to dig into jazz?
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Demon-Fighting Genius; Patronizing Twaddler; Argumentative, Sanctimonious Prick; Sensationalist Dullard; and Douche who (occasionally to rarely) puts songs here.

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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2017, 07:42:37 AM »

Speak of Miles, I got myself a little gift a couple of days ago:

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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
the captain
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2017, 10:15:04 AM »

Some great, great stuff there!
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Ovi
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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2017, 10:32:12 AM »

And at the moment I can't stop listening to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYFachqAup4

So fast, groovy and demented.
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
Ovi
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« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2018, 04:50:00 AM »

Here's some stuff I've gotten into since I posted last time:

Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come
The Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners
Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures
Duke Ellington - Far East Suite

+ more albums by Miles, Coltrane and Mingus.

Andrew Hill and Oliver Nelson are on my wish-list, as per Captain's suggestion.

What is the best place to start for Charlie Parker and Louis Armstrong?
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
the captain
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« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2018, 06:30:21 AM »

Sorry, Ovi, I'm not your man on these. My jazz tastes really only barely extend back to bebop and even less before. (I think bebop is supremely interesting from a music theory perspective, but not especially interesting to listen to.)

I would say with Louis, find his earlier stuff, the Hot Five and Hot Seven music. With Charlie Parker you can't really go wrong anywhere. In both cases, you're really talking about the pre-LP era for the most part, so it's a matter of collections regardless. But I'm nowhere near familiar enough to give good recommendations.
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« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2018, 06:17:29 AM »

Got into Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity and it just blew me away. One of the most intense albums I've ever heard. And Art Blakey's Moanin' is another great one.
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
JK
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« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2018, 01:59:31 PM »

Got into Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity and it just blew me away. One of the most intense albums I've ever heard. And Art Blakey's Moanin' is another great one.

Hi Ovi. Seems our jazz guru has done a runner. I haven't seen the captain around for a while. Maybe this will coax him back. Cool

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out the Ayler some time soon.
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« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2018, 02:25:41 PM »

Got into Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity and it just blew me away. One of the most intense albums I've ever heard.

I listened to it last night and contrary to expectations thoroughly enjoyed it. Some brilliant playing, particularly Gary Peacock on bass. Wow. Thanks for the tip, Ovi. Smiley
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2018, 05:59:27 AM »

Got into Albert Ayler's Spiritual Unity and it just blew me away. One of the most intense albums I've ever heard.

I listened to it last night and contrary to expectations thoroughly enjoyed it. Some brilliant playing, particularly Gary Peacock on bass. Wow. Thanks for the tip, Ovi. Smiley

Glad you liked it, man.
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
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« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2018, 06:10:07 PM »

Favorite jazz is Sun Ra (Arkestra). It's cool & multi-faceted. Would be coolest gift if some kind creature bought Sun Ra's 100+ albums, then sent each via sendspace as zip files for free! 3D But, it'll be difficult task to find the entire catalog.
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« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2018, 10:26:12 PM »

As I've written ad nauseum, I'm a big Thelonious Monk fan. Just spun the self-titled album a few times while I read this afternoon and was (as always) thrilled. Almost giddy, as Monk always seems to be. That version of "Just a Gigolo" is one of my favorite records of anything, ever.
I've been listening to "Brilliant Corners" a lot lately. What a weird, wonderful song.  Grin
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Ovi
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« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2018, 11:44:24 AM »

Do you jazz fans think that the genre can be enjoyed as much without a musical theory knowledge?
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A band called The Beach Boys are mostly going to be a fun in the sun-themed group. And that has, is, and will always be just as it should. There needs to be ONE classic band that isn't a pack of endless "artistic" moan. All people wanna do is make The Beach Boys into another Beatles they are less tired of.
And, for anyone who has actually experienced them, surfing and cars carry PLENTY of emotion and life experience. They can carry as much metaphor as any Van Dyke Parks clever epistle.
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« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2018, 01:26:43 PM »

Do you jazz fans think that the genre can be enjoyed as much without a musical theory knowledge?

Great to see you around again, Ovi. Smiley

I'm not a jazz fan (although I like and even love isolated pieces) so I'll pass on this one. Wink
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« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2018, 01:28:59 PM »

Do you jazz fans think that the genre can be enjoyed as much without a musical theory knowledge?
Yes. Like any other music genre.
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Short notice: the cat you see to the left is the best. Not counting your indoor cat who might have habit sitting at your left side when you post at SmileySmile.

Boy dislikes girl. The girl dislikes that boy. People dislike the boy AND girl. Question - WHO dislikes these people?

Pom pom generation thinks The Baby boomers can't hopscotch into admitting that they're ANYthing BUT cool & the boom they represent is archaic thing by now.
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