Opinons on what's false about what's written in WIBN: My Own Story

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

His contribution was to make illustrations (which are splendid visual puns) from the lyrics supplied to him by Brian & Van Dyke: he never heard one note of the music and his direct involvement in the project was done by early fall 1966. No-one spoke to him at the time: all his observations have the benefit of a couple of decades of hindsight

^ This is well documented, as well.

[18thofMay]

His contribution was to make illustrations (which are splendid visual puns) from the lyrics supplied to him by Brian & Van Dyke: he never heard one note of the music and his direct involvement in the project was done by early fall 1966. No-one spoke to him at the time: all his observations have the benefit of a couple of decades of hindsight

^ This is well documented, as well.

Yes it is!! 3333

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Man, that interview posted earlier
http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-wilson-by-jeremy-gluck-yknow-what.html
is a damn trip and a half, esp. the part about his stomach ache, somebody getting punched in the nose, and

When I went into the studio with Steve Levine, he started cryin' because Al Jardine told him he was a washed-up little punk...I felt terrible. I said “Is there anything I can do to make it better?” He said, “No, Jardine has destroyed me!”. Finally, an hour later, he walked back in, Al apologised, Steve stopped crying – it was unbelievable. But noting's so bad that you're not going to go back into the studio and work...and he got in there and got a couple of good songs on there and everything was cool – except for that fuckin' Al Jardine screwing him up!

See, Al was feeling bad that day. Al feels bad sometimes, feels like life is a rip-off and he doesn't get to sing enough leads on the Beach Boys records.

^THAT little nugget. For some reason, Brian's whole tone in the interview reminded me of the semi-famous one Syd Barrett did when he was 24,mixed with a George Carlin-esque rant.

[Jay]

"I can't argue the fact that somebody might get punched in the nose". Um...what???

[Jay]

Man, that interview posted earlier
http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-wilson-by-jeremy-gluck-yknow-what.html
is a damn trip and a half, esp. the part about his stomach ache, somebody getting punched in the nose, and

When I went into the studio with Steve Levine, he started cryin' because Al Jardine told him he was a washed-up little punk...I felt terrible. I said “Is there anything I can do to make it better?” He said, “No, Jardine has destroyed me!”. Finally, an hour later, he walked back in, Al apologised, Steve stopped crying – it was unbelievable. But noting's so bad that you're not going to go back into the studio and work...and he got in there and got a couple of good songs on there and everything was cool – except for that fuckin' Al Jardine screwing him up!

See, Al was feeling bad that day. Al feels bad sometimes, feels like life is a rip-off and he doesn't get to sing enough leads on the Beach Boys records.

^THAT little nugget. For some reason, Brian's whole tone in the interview reminded me of the semi-famous one Syd Barrett did when he was 24,mixed with a George Carlin-esque rant.

I need to read that syd barrett interview...

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

I think it was in Rolling Stone. Hold on real quick...lemme see if I can find it online.

edit


so far, no luck. Nothing on Youtube is playing sound for me so I'm going to have to restart my computer; when I do, I see if the interview posted on YouTube is the right one.

[Iron Horse-Apples]

When I went into the studio with Steve Levine, he started cryin' because Al Jardine told him he was a washed-up little punk...I felt terrible. I said “Is there anything I can do to make it better?” He said, “No, Jardine has destroyed me!”. Finally, an hour later, he walked back in, Al apologised, Steve stopped crying – it was unbelievable. But noting's so bad that you're not going to go back into the studio and work...and he got in there and got a couple of good songs on there and everything was cool – except for that fuckin' Al Jardine screwing him up!

See, Al was feeling bad that day. Al feels bad sometimes, feels like life is a rip-off and he doesn't get to sing enough leads on the Beach Boys records.

Now, imagine a whole book actually written by Brian......James Joyce beware!

It would be the greatest book ever!

[The Heartical Don]

Mein Kampf

By Adolph Hitler

And Tod Gold

I Imagined the headlines. Adolph Hitler. Third Reich Genius. Fired From Party.
Fired.
The word was absolutely foreign to me, impossible to understand or accept. I sat motionless, speechless, empassive.
"Listen to what we're saying", said Josef Goebbals, the Nazis' propaganda minister.
The Party was seated around a large conference table, watching my reaction to the letter they had given me to read. I read it several times then  glanced at each of my party members - stone faced Goebbals, baby faced Heinreich Himmler. My friend since high school Hermann Goerring. The word "terminated", and "final solution" resonated in my syrapy brain. In shock, I didn't know what to think, or how to react.
"I'm fired?" I asked. "Is that what you're telling me?"
"That's right", Goebbals said.
"Fired", I still didn't believe it. "What the f**k", I founded the Nazis!"

Of all the thousands of posts I ever read anywhere on the net, this firmly belongs in the top 3. Perhaps its the funniest of all of them 
The next book on the Boys should contain it. Where are Stan and Stephen Love, BTW?

[MBE]

Basically Gold - and he admitted this in Billboard - took other people's quotes and put them in Brian's mouth (his excuse was that he had to flesh out Brian's terse/monosyllabic interview responses).

When was it that Brian became so terse in his responses?
I've seen and heard early interviews where he's very talkative and articulate. Is it that, these days, Brian isn't just terse in interviews, but just in general?

Was it a sudden shift as a result of the abuse his mind was put through with the over-medication of psychotropic drugs, or a more gradual thing?

Brian was always slightly eccentric in interviews but before 1976 it wasn't glaring by rock star standards. His interviews could be strange from 76-82 but generally he seemed to be aware of what was being asked and knew how to react to it. After 1982 Brian's reactions become more odd and gradually he became less engaged by his surroundings. There are exceptions but you have to be very carefull with a post 1983 quote. I got him to talk a little because I covered music he usually didn't discuss much, but he wasn't nearly as through as I expect a pre second Landy term Brian would have been.

Hey, MBE, maybe you've discussed this before...but anyways, is there anywhere I can read this interview with him, where you "covered music he didn't discuss much"? That sounds really interesting, and I'm sure you did a great job, as you are usually one of the most sensible posters here.

Hopefully in my Beach Boys book which I only have a week or two to go on.

[MBE]

Man I love Beach Boys music, and Smile had some great stuff, but some people read waaaaaay too much into it. Play the music and enjoy that's all there is to it to me.

[The Heartical Don]

Man I love Beach Boys music, and Smile had some great stuff, but some people read waaaaaay too much into it. Play the music and enjoy that's all there is to it to me.

This is the way I feel too. I think the most of Van Dyke Parks description, in 2004: it's a series of small vignettes, like post stamps, about (the founding, or the character of) America (I paraphrase).

Period. And as such it is a piece of art.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

The music is where the groundbreaking genius is, really. The words are poetic the way they are due to the music, but  vice versa as well. Brian and Van Dyke fed off of each other in the best way possible. In my opinion, *that* is the magic and beauty of Smile.

[The Heartical Don]

The music is where the groundbreaking genius is, really. The words are poetic the way they are due to the music, but  vice versa as well. Brian and Van Dyke fed off of each other in the best way possible. In my opinion, *that* is the magic and beauty of Smile.

I could of written that. Word.

[MBE]

Agreed it's not far from basic Americana, but the timbre of the sounds and words really made it so rewarding.

[The Heartical Don]

Agreed it's not far from basic Americana, but the timbre of the sounds and words really made it so rewarding.

You mean it's not far from The Band, or Lucinda Williams? 

[MBE]

Well it has more humor and less pretension. It also has unselfconscious in it's 1966-67 form.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Man, that interview posted earlier
http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-wilson-by-jeremy-gluck-yknow-what.html
is a damn trip and a half, esp. the part about his stomach ache, somebody getting punched in the nose, and

When I went into the studio with Steve Levine, he started cryin' because Al Jardine told him he was a washed-up little punk...I felt terrible. I said “Is there anything I can do to make it better?” He said, “No, Jardine has destroyed me!”. Finally, an hour later, he walked back in, Al apologised, Steve stopped crying – it was unbelievable. But noting's so bad that you're not going to go back into the studio and work...and he got in there and got a couple of good songs on there and everything was cool – except for that fuckin' Al Jardine screwing him up!

See, Al was feeling bad that day. Al feels bad sometimes, feels like life is a rip-off and he doesn't get to sing enough leads on the Beach Boys records.

^THAT little nugget. For some reason, Brian's whole tone in the interview reminded me of the semi-famous one Syd Barrett did when he was 24,mixed with a George Carlin-esque rant.

I need to read that syd barrett interview...

That would be the one where he says something like "I'm really together, and I even think I should be".

Syd interview, RS 12/71

[Iron Horse-Apples]

Mein Kampf

By Adolph Hitler

And Tod Gold

I Imagined the headlines. Adolph Hitler. Third Reich Genius. Fired From Party.
Fired.
The word was absolutely foreign to me, impossible to understand or accept. I sat motionless, speechless, empassive.
"Listen to what we're saying", said Josef Goebbals, the Nazis' propaganda minister.
The Party was seated around a large conference table, watching my reaction to the letter they had given me to read. I read it several times then  glanced at each of my party members - stone faced Goebbals, baby faced Heinreich Himmler. My friend since high school Hermann Goerring. The word "terminated", and "final solution" resonated in my syrapy brain. In shock, I didn't know what to think, or how to react.
"I'm fired?" I asked. "Is that what you're telling me?"
"That's right", Goebbals said.
"Fired", I still didn't believe it. "What the f**k", I founded the Nazis!"

Of all the thousands of posts I ever read anywhere on the net, this firmly belongs in the top 3. Perhaps its the funniest of all of them 
The next book on the Boys should contain it. Where are Stan and Stephen Love, BTW?

Thank's Don, I must admit I was giggling all the way up to bed, and trying not to giggle in bed. I think my wife was wondering what I was up to!

But I couldn't have written it without Todd......

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Man, that interview posted earlier
http://whatanicewaytoturn17.blogspot.com/2011/02/brian-wilson-by-jeremy-gluck-yknow-what.html
is a damn trip and a half, esp. the part about his stomach ache, somebody getting punched in the nose, and

When I went into the studio with Steve Levine, he started cryin' because Al Jardine told him he was a washed-up little punk...I felt terrible. I said “Is there anything I can do to make it better?” He said, “No, Jardine has destroyed me!”. Finally, an hour later, he walked back in, Al apologised, Steve stopped crying – it was unbelievable. But noting's so bad that you're not going to go back into the studio and work...and he got in there and got a couple of good songs on there and everything was cool – except for that fuckin' Al Jardine screwing him up!

See, Al was feeling bad that day. Al feels bad sometimes, feels like life is a rip-off and he doesn't get to sing enough leads on the Beach Boys records.

^THAT little nugget. For some reason, Brian's whole tone in the interview reminded me of the semi-famous one Syd Barrett did when he was 24,mixed with a George Carlin-esque rant.

I need to read that syd barrett interview...

That would be the one where he says something like "I'm really together, and I even think I should be".

Syd interview, RS 12/71

Yes that's the one...thanks!

BTW...originally I meant to quote your post, but for some reason it showed I modified it. I fixed what I did...meh...that was weird

[Bill Tobelman]

Quote from Andrew G. Doe:

If you're referring to the Fusion article... I can't find anything even close to him saying that. if it's not, care to point me at the article in question ?

That quote is on page 57 of the revised LLVS. the article is SMILE BRIAN-AND PULL THEM STRINGS and it was considered a Vosse piece by Cam Mott or some folks on some bygone messageboard or yahoogroup (so sorry if I got the Vosse part wrong). The take away is that vegetables (the actual food) promotes health which is "an important ingredient in spiritual enlightenment."

Firstly, where's the reference to vegetables in this... secondly, Bill, that whole piece is a put-on, a joke, hence the repetitions of "out-of-sight" in an intentionally square spelling.

Hope we're looking at the same thing--it's on page 68 of LLVS. This piece is chock full of vegetable references: "Grasping firmly onto the carrot, Brian ate it quickly, and, lo and behold!--it gave him some very out-of-sight vision, of a very out-of-sight world." The idea that you need a lot of energy to deal with the out-of-sight world is an "enlightening perception."
The take away from this is that the same connection is made between vegetables and accessing a new frame of reference. "I've just come down from Carrot Heaven to help you see just Where It's At, and to tell you that the world is really Out-Of-Sight!"

Is this flashback reported anywhere else except in this book ? If not, then it's immediately suspect.

Nowhere else to my knowledge. The flashback is referenced a second time in the bio when Brian is discussing the direction for his next album (it was Pet Sounds) with his astrologer (page 131).

[Bill Tobelman]

Andrew G. Doe said:

'Course... if you're implying that Brian's trips are fiction, or even inaccurately reported, then 50% of your 'clear-light' theory just keeled over and died. Can't have it both ways, Bill. Can't manipulate the evidence to your own ends.

The "clear light" reference isn't taken from the bio but rather the Surfing Saints article from CHEETAH! (page 98 of LLVS). Brian confesses "It's only happened to me once...." while talking about the "Ultimate Religious Experience."

This would then correspond to trip #3 from the bio which was described as "the ultimate...four hours of enlightenment and spirituality."

[Andrew G. Doe]

Quote from Andrew G. Doe:

If you're referring to the Fusion article... I can't find anything even close to him saying that. if it's not, care to point me at the article in question ?

That quote is on page 57 of the revised LLVS. the article is SMILE BRIAN-AND PULL THEM STRINGS and it was considered a Vosse piece by Cam Mott or some folks on some bygone messageboard or yahoogroup (so sorry if I got the Vosse part wrong). The take away is that vegetables (the actual food) promotes health which is "an important ingredient in spiritual enlightenment."

Firstly, where's the reference to vegetables in this... secondly, Bill, that whole piece is a put-on, a joke, hence the repetitions of "out-of-sight" in an intentionally square spelling.

Hope we're looking at the same thing--it's on page 68 of LLVS. This piece is chock full of vegetable references: "Grasping firmly onto the carrot, Brian ate it quickly, and, lo and behold!--it gave him some very out-of-sight vision, of a very out-of-sight world." The idea that you need a lot of energy to deal with the out-of-sight world is an "enlightening perception."
The take away from this is that the same connection is made between vegetables and accessing a new frame of reference. "I've just come down from Carrot Heaven to help you see just Where It's At, and to tell you that the world is really Out-Of-Sight!"

Is this flashback reported anywhere else except in this book ? If not, then it's immediately suspect.

Nowhere else to my knowledge. The flashback is referenced a second time in the bio when Brian is discussing the direction for his next album (it was Pet Sounds) with his astrologer (page 131).

Bill, if you just say "the Vosse article", everyone here - not just me - is going to assume you mean the Fusion piece, not an unattributed text. A little more precision, please. And yes, the second part I questioned is full of veggie references... but not in the version you posted. I'm good, but I'm not clairvoyant: if you're using a quote to support the veggie point, makes sense to leave the references to same in the quote.  

And I see you tacitly concur with me that the alleged flashback is reported only in a discredited book written 25 years after the alleged event.

Andrew G. Doe said:

'Course... if you're implying that Brian's trips are fiction, or even inaccurately reported, then 50% of your 'clear-light' theory just keeled over and died. Can't have it both ways, Bill. Can't manipulate the evidence to your own ends.

The "clear light" reference isn't taken from the bio but rather the Surfing Saints article from CHEETAH! (page 98 of LLVS). Brian confesses "It's only happened to me once...." while talking about the "Ultimate Religious Experience."

This would then correspond to trip #3 from the bio which was described as "the ultimate...four hours of enlightenment and spirituality."

Again, you're supporting your argument/theory with a quote from Brian's non-bio, but even allowing it might be valid (for the sake of argument), has it not struck you that his previous two bad trips and the flashback were described in considerable detail, yet the good trip was mentioned in a single, almost  throwaway sentence ?

Also, concerning the "Surfing Saints" article... although it's been attributed to Brian, does it really look like anything he'd say in 1966/67 ?  I'd accept that Dennis might say it, but whoever is being quoted has a good handle on the surfing culture and is obviously a surfer. Not Brian, then... and the "clear light" reference is about a sunrise. That's all. The article makes it clear what the "Ultimate Religious Experience" actually is: "surfing is really kind of religious... The surf is now. The eternal now" Just about every version of that BW quote I've seen is limited to those three words "the eternal now", which sounds most profound... but add "the surf is now" and the entire meaning is turned 180. Finally, "You want to know where it's really at, man ? It's a sport. It's chicks. It's groovy. Anyone who tells you anything else is living in another world."

That's what happens when you pull isolated quotes from their original context.

[Bill Tobelman]

Andrew G. Doe said:

Again, you're supporting your argument/theory with a quote from Brian's non-bio, but even allowing it might be valid (for the sake of argument), has it not struck you that his previous two bad trips and the flashback were described in considerable detail, yet the good trip was mentioned in a single, almost  throwaway sentence ?

Yeah, that means he was still keeping the details of his ultimate experience secret. One reason to do so would be to preserve the mystery that is known as SMILE.

Also, concerning the "Surfing Saints" article... although it's been attributed to Brian, does it really look like anything he'd say in 1966/67 ?

Some of the speaking style is just Brian's from that period.

As far as the subject matter goes: this is the one insight we get into the details of the 3rd, or ultimate, trip.

I'd accept that Dennis might say it, but whoever is being quoted has a good handle on the surfing culture and is obviously a surfer. Not Brian, then... and the "clear light" reference is about a sunrise. That's all. The article makes it clear what the "Ultimate Religious Experience" actually is: "surfing is really kind of religious... The surf is now. The eternal now" Just about every version of that BW quote I've seen is limited to those three words "the eternal now", which sounds most profound... but add "the surf is now" and the entire meaning is turned 180. Finally, "You want to know where it's really at, man ? It's a sport. It's chicks. It's groovy. Anyone who tells you anything else is living in another world."

The article uses surfing as a starting point to talk about the "Ultimate Religious Experience." For instance "coming out of a wave" is related to "finding out you really are...God."

It's interesting to note that the elongated titles & intros of both CHEETAH pieces (the Jules Siegel article & Surfing Saints) seem to compliment each other.

"The Religious Conversion of Brian Wilson: GOODBYE SURFING HELLO GOD!" and "In the sun-tanned world of Bikini Beach improbable mystics are finding a new Ultimate Religious Experience."

BTW, Alan Watts used the phrase "the eternal now" as interchangeable with the term "Zen."

[bgas]

Andrew G. Doe said:

Again, you're supporting your argument/theory with a quote from Brian's non-bio, but even allowing it might be valid (for the sake of argument), has it not struck you that his previous two bad trips and the flashback were described in considerable detail, yet the good trip was mentioned in a single, almost  throwaway sentence ?

Yeah, that means he was still keeping the details of his ultimate experience secret. One reason to do so would be to preserve the mystery that is known as SMILE.

Also, concerning the "Surfing Saints" article... although it's been attributed to Brian, does it really look like anything he'd say in 1966/67 ?

Some of the speaking style is just Brian's from that period.

As far as the subject matter goes: this is the one insight we get into the details of the 3rd, or ultimate, trip.

I'd accept that Dennis might say it, but whoever is being quoted has a good handle on the surfing culture and is obviously a surfer. Not Brian, then... and the "clear light" reference is about a sunrise. That's all. The article makes it clear what the "Ultimate Religious Experience" actually is: "surfing is really kind of religious... The surf is now. The eternal now" Just about every version of that BW quote I've seen is limited to those three words "the eternal now", which sounds most profound... but add "the surf is now" and the entire meaning is turned 180. Finally, "You want to know where it's really at, man ? It's a sport. It's chicks. It's groovy. Anyone who tells you anything else is living in another world."

The article uses surfing as a starting point to talk about the "Ultimate Religious Experience." For instance "coming out of a wave" is related to "finding out you really are...God."

It's interesting to note that the elongated titles & intros of both CHEETAH pieces (the Jules Siegel article & Surfing Saints) seem to compliment each other.

"The Religious Conversion of Brian Wilson: GOODBYE SURFING HELLO GOD!" and "In the sun-tanned world of Bikini Beach improbable mystics are finding a new Ultimate Religious Experience."

BTW, Alan Watts used the phrase "the eternal now" as interchangeable with the term "Zen."

The problem I have with meshing the two articles: 
There is NO obvious connection, other than the two articles were both included in the October 1967 Cheetah. Are we to presume that the words are Brian's because someone has tried to duplicate the way he sounds?    The clue is "improbable mystics"; if it's Bian, why not quote him as he was in the Siegel article?  There's no quotes and no credits, because it was just a puff piece, written for the mag; something some stoners would say, 'Hey I read that article on Brian, and then later he had all these other cool thiings to say". 
The only credits in the SS piece are for the photos.
 That is, of course, unless Brian appeared before you and told you it was "ZEN" with an E

[Andrew G. Doe]

Bill, bgas very kindly scanned the "Surfing Saints" article for me. There's no mention of it being Brian's thoughts. It's not attributed to ANYONE. It's entirely separate from the Siegel article. Those are not Brian's words that you've been waving on my face as 'proof'!

Contrary to popular belief and 'net appearance, I'm a pretty tolerant guy, but one thing I will not countenance is sloppy research, from myself or anyone else, and that's what you're guilty of - Brian's pseudobiography is worthless as a source unless the info is that stolen from someone else, and now it's emerged that an article that was a central bastion of your claims re the LSD trips has been proven to have nothing to do with Brian because trust me, if it was the mag would have said so. Please have the grace and the balls to admit that you're wrong here... or show me a copy with the words "Brian Wilson" attached back in 1967.

It's interesting to note that the elongated titles & intros of both CHEETAH pieces (the Jules Siegel article & Surfing Saints) seem to compliment each other.

"The Religious Conversion of Brian Wilson: GOODBYE SURFING HELLO GOD!" and "In the sun-tanned world of Bikini Beach improbable mystics are finding a new Ultimate Religious Experience."

Know what that means, in total ? That the sub-editor/copywriter thought it would be a neat idea to do both in the same style -  it's called consistency  of style.... unless you're going to tell me that in fall 1967 Brian contacted Cheetah and instructed them what headlines to use.