Some early facts and gifts from Smile Sessions

[the captain]

Well there is a difference between official and, say, definitive. What is official isn't up for debate: whatever is released in an officially sanctioned way is, by definition, official. That is what the word means. Definitive is where each of us having our own ideas comes into play. And so the definitive version of Smile, well, there are already dozens of those: Smiley Smile, BWPS, this or that boot, and no doubt this upcoming box will all be definitive to someone.

[Jason]

My remark was mere satire, dude. Anticipation of the shitstorm to come once the box set is released...

[the captain]

Dude.

[cutterschoice]

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

Nope. The 'official' one is coming out later this year.

  I was joking. Thought the following line gave it way.

[JMZ]

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

Nope. The 'official' one is coming out later this year.

To me, BWPS is the first "official" version of SMiLE. What's going to be released is "The Smile Sessions", not "SMiLE".

[Jason]

Nah, the official version of Smile is a 45 minute medley of Ding Dang, Back Home, and Shortenin' Bread played simultaneously on two tape recorders and allowed to go slowly out of phase. Brian just threw it away; he junked it. He thought it was inappropriate music for them to make.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Official, definitive, indefinite, undefined, unrefined, whatever...I'm looking forward to the f*cker whenever its released.

[desmondo]

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

Nope. The 'official' one is coming out later this year.

Nope - the official 66/67 recordings are coming out later this year

[desmondo]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

Nope - those recording are just part of the SMiLE history - those songs were completed in 2004

[desmondo]

Smile 1966/7 - unfinished, unreleased, no sequence, no segues.

Brian Wilson presents Smile 2004 - finished, released, sequences & segues galore.

BWPS is a Smile, but not the Smile. As I've been saying since February 20th, 2004.

Ahh - wasn't around in September 2004 but what is THE Smile if not BWPS?

The ORIGINAL 1966 one that was NEVER completed.

But it was completed in 2004

The Brian Wilson Travelling Propganda and Deception Machine claims another victim...

So what was completed in 2004?? - a whole bunch of new songs like H&V, CE, SU, MOC, W, etc etc written and recorded in the 21st century???

Of course that's what happened - I forgot.......duh silly me

Nothing was completed in 2003/4. What happened was, a bunch of songs written and (in some cases partly) recorded back in 1966/67 were assembled into a sequence that would work live (source: some dude called Sahanaja), which required the addition of some newly written lyrics and links, and a newly-designed third movement (source: some cat named Wilson). BWPS was conceived, executed and recorded as a live work. The material was largely - but not exclusively - 37 years old. The execution was entirely 21st century. Also, consider this: if it was truly Smile completed... why not call it that ?

A far more accurate title would have been Brian Wilson Reimagines Smile.

AGD - whilst I agree that it started out as a live presentation of Smile music (see early list that contained non-Smile tracks) - it quickly grew into something more particularly when VDP joind the team again - it became SMILE in all but name - as for not calling it SMILE, wasn't there some legal reasons why it couldn't be called SMILE.

As for nothing being completed erm - what about Worms, Barnyard, IIGS, SU? for example

[desmondo]

I happen to agree with the point above that Smiley Smile is as legitimate a conclusion to Smile as Brian`s 2004 Smile. Music is there for it`s composers to work with, massage. and reinvigorate. An example is Gershwin`s Porgy and Bess, which was later reinterpreted by that composer into a performance piece for orchestra. It is little known and rarely performed compared with the opera, but it is part of the Gershwin oeurve. He did the same with I Got Rhythm, which he redid into a performance piece entitled Variations on I Got Rhythm. I hope Brian keeps reinterpreting his work. He did it with Help Me Rhonda, Let Him Run Wild, and My Solution. Go Brian!

Possibly the most extreme example of this is Jim Steinman. As any serious fans of his will know, just about everything he's ever written to date derives from material he composed in the early/mid-seventies for Neverland, his unrealised sci-fi version of Peter Pan.

Ahh Jim Steinman - partly right - All Revved Up, Bat out of Hell, Heaven Can wait and Dance in My Pants certainly featured in Neverland (whichever version) and I am sure several other tunes originated there but to say just about everything originated there is a slight exaggeration.

That said JS does seem to record his songs over and over again with different artists

[desmondo]

Ok, so we're all agreed that the 2004 SMiLE is the official one?

Nope. The 'official' one is coming out later this year.

To me, BWPS is the first "official" version of SMiLE. What's going to be released is "The Smile Sessions", not "SMiLE".

Agreed - and nicely put

[Jason]

But what if along the way there is a release of the 2004 sessions? What are those going to be called? Just to pick the brains of all you BWPS fanatics...

[desmondo]

But what if along the way there is a release of the 2004 sessions? What are those going to be called? Just to pick the brains of all you BWPS fanatics...

The 2004 Smile Sessions

[seanmurd]

But what if along the way there is a release of the 2004 sessions? What are those going to be called? Just to pick the brains of all you BWPS fanatics...

It'd be called "The Brian Wilson Presents Smile Sessions" -- and I wouldn't mind having THAT either...

[Jason]

Oh, so NOW BWPS is the "2004 Smile Sessions"? But if it's the real Smile, shouldn't it be called "The Smile Sessions" and the original recordings called "The Smile Demos" or "The Smile Sketches" or "The Album Mike Love Couldn't Resonate With Sessions"?

[desmondo]

Oh, so NOW BWPS is the "2004 Smile Sessions"? But if it's the real Smile, shouldn't it be called "The Smile Sessions" and the original recordings called "The Smile Demos" or "The Smile Sketches" or "The Album Mike Love Couldn't Resonate With Sessions"?

There is only one SMILE - those songs that were written and recorded in 66/67/68/71 and 2004. We all know what those songs were so what's the problem. If they were re-recorded, added to etc in between who gives a toss. Its the same songs constructed under the same vision, 99% the same arrangements.

I do agree that if Smile had been finished in 66/67 it wouldn't have been the same as 2004 Smile  - we didn't have CDs, Pro Tools etc in those days but that doesn't make 2004 Smile anything less than the finished article

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Nope - those recording are just part of the SMiLE history - those songs were completed in 2004

There is quite a bit of confusion in your posts.

So you're telling me that Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Vegetables, Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Cabinessence, Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, and the Water Chant were incomplete until 2004, despite the fact that all nine of those appeared on official Beach Boys releases?

[Jason]

Nope - those recording are just part of the SMiLE history - those songs were completed in 2004

There is quite a bit of confusion in your posts.

So you're telling me that Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Vegetables, Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Cabinessence, Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, and the Water Chant were incomplete until 2004, despite the fact that all nine of those appeared on official Beach Boys releases?

It could be argued that none of them were complete but were able to be assembled from existing elements with a few additions?

[Chocolate Shake Man]

Nope - those recording are just part of the SMiLE history - those songs were completed in 2004

There is quite a bit of confusion in your posts.

So you're telling me that Prayer, Heroes and Villains, Vegetables, Wonderful, Wind Chimes, Cabinessence, Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, and the Water Chant were incomplete until 2004, despite the fact that all nine of those appeared on official Beach Boys releases?

It could be argued that none of them were complete but were able to be assembled from existing elements with a few additions?

Haha - that was quite the diplomatic edit.

[Jason]

Yeah, it was a better choice to edit my original comment. It's not always easy to play devil's advocate!

Someone on here mentioned a while back that You're Welcome could very well count as the only Smile-era recording (if it was ever a track is conjecture) to be labelled as "complete" by Brian.

[Peter Reum]

I think that there are a few more complete tracks from the Smile Era...You`re Welcome...Teeter Totter Love, Crack the Whip...the rest, excluding Good Vibrations, were incomplete. If we count Smiley Smile as a part of The Smile Era (I don`t), then a number of tracks were finished. I will go back to the old point I made a number of years ago. If you listen to the creators of Smile...Brian and VDP...they would  define Smile as being completed when the 2004 assembly and lyric work along with sequencing was finished. For the Smile Era advocates...I believe that these recordings were fleshed out, occasionally with Brian`s assistance  in 1968, 1969 and 1971.

[The Shift]

Peter, I'm guessing you're one of the few folk on the planet to have heard Teeter Totter Love and Crack the Whip. Can you tell us anything about them?  Were they fully-realised productions like Cabinessence and Heroes, or simple productions like Little Red Book etc?  Would be wonderful to hear your take.

[BiG GRiN]

I think that there are a few more complete tracks from the Smile Era...You`re Welcome...Teeter Totter Love, Crack the Whip...the rest, excluding Good Vibrations, were incomplete. If we count Smiley Smile as a part of The Smile Era (I don`t), then a number of tracks were finished. I will go back to the old point I made a number of years ago. If you listen to the creators of Smile...Brian and VDP...they would  define Smile as being completed when the 2004 assembly and lyric work along with sequencing was finished. For the Smile Era advocates...I believe that these recordings were fleshed out, occasionally with Brian`s assistance  in 1968, 1969 and 1971.

Just saying: I'm excited about the SMiLE sessions box set release. I hope there will have a lot of new/never heard/final mix...
I'm just afraid of a box set similar to The Pet Sounds sessions, which was great, but incomplete (more sessions appeared on boot with more studio chat).
I would love to hear everything recorded during the SMiLE era like 'Teeter Totter Love', 'Crack the Whip', 'When I Get Mad I Just Play My Drums', 'I Don't Know', 'Tones/Tune X', My Little Red Book'....
So, I would like to have a box set with The SMiLE Sessions/ SMiLE Era. I think it could be interesting to hear anything recorded during this period.

Other point: anychance to hear 'On Top Of Old Smokey' played (recorded?) during Paul's visit on Monday 10 April 1967?
It was probably just for fun with nothing recorded.

Last point: About "WHISTLE IN ", I had totally forgot it was part of the SMiLE sessions (january 1967 ?). Never heard it yet. Any informations about what it sounds like?

[Peter Reum]

The Jasper tracks were chants akin to You`re Welcome, which Brian tried to sell to A&M for a recording contract for Jasper. Jasper was not a singer. Maybe it was a put on. To my knowledge On Top has never turned up. I agree that a Smile Box is the best we are going to get from the group and is the most desirable thing still archived. Whistle In is one of my favorite tracks from Smiley Smile...I like it better than the one from Smile. But that`s just me....