of Montreal and Smile

[tansen]

I know of Montreal has been talked about here before, but thought I would mention them now when Smile is about to be released. of Montreal's two albums 'The Gay Parade' and 'Coquelicot asleep in the poppies: A Variety of whimsical verse' have quite definite share similarities with Smile. Both whimsical and psychedelic, amazing melodies and chord progressions, and of course loads of vocals and harmonies.
For anyone who don't know the band, they are definitely worth checking out (especially the two aforementioned albums, but albums like 'Aldhils Arboretum' and 'Satanic Panic in the Attic' are amazing too).

Take this from a guy who worship 60s music. I can truly say that to me, those two albums are up there with 'Smile', 'Odessey and Oracle', 'Arthur', 'Village Green P..', 'Odgeon', etc.

[the captain]

OM's composer, Kevin Barnes, definitely cites Brian Wilson as an influence, but his more direct influence on those late 90s and early 00s albums are definitely Zombies, Kinks, and Os Mutantes. Since then, of course, he has gone pretty heavily into soul and funk music. I think most of the output from Gay Parade onward (meaning well over a decade's worth and quite a few albums) is worth listening to. For my money, of Montreal is up there with Belle & Sebastian, Tom Waits, Bob Dylan, and a couple other acts as most consistently good over the past 10 years.

[tansen]

OM's composer, Kevin Barnes, definitely cites Brian Wilson as an influence, but his more direct influence on those late 90s and early 00s albums are definitely Zombies, Kinks, and Os Mutantes. Since then, of course, he has gone pretty heavily into soul and funk music. I think most of the output from Gay Parade onward (meaning well over a decade's worth and quite a few albums) is worth listening to. For my money, of Montreal is up there with Belle & Sebastian, Tom Waits, Bob Dylan, and a couple other acts as most consistently good over the past 10 years.

Indeed, his whole output for the past 10 years is worth digging out. I think really up to the EP 'Icons, Abstract Thee' is work of a genius. Of course, now Kevin sites Prince and more modern pieces of music as his influence (as well as some late 70s funk stuff), so I do think for people here at the board a good starting point would be 'The Gay Parade' or 'Coquelicot'. Other bands to check out from the same scene are of course 'Olivia Tremor Control' and the Apples in Stereo.

[Alex]

OM's composer, Kevin Barnes, definitely cites Brian Wilson as an influence, but his more direct influence on those late 90s and early 00s albums are definitely Zombies, Kinks, and Os Mutantes. Since then, of course, he has gone pretty heavily into soul and funk music. I think most of the output from Gay Parade onward (meaning well over a decade's worth and quite a few albums) is worth listening to. For my money, of Montreal is up there with Belle & Sebastian, Tom Waits, Bob Dylan, and a couple other acts as most consistently good over the past 10 years.

Indeed, his whole output for the past 10 years is worth digging out. I think really up to the EP 'Icons, Abstract Thee' is work of a genius. Of course, now Kevin sites Prince and more modern pieces of music as his influence (as well as some late 70s funk stuff), so I do think for people here at the board a good starting point would be 'The Gay Parade' or 'Coquelicot'. Other bands to check out from the same scene are of course 'Olivia Tremor Control' and the Apples in Stereo.

And don't forget Neutral Milk Hotel, Elf Power, and Dressy Bessy!

[tansen]

OM's composer, Kevin Barnes, definitely cites Brian Wilson as an influence, but his more direct influence on those late 90s and early 00s albums are definitely Zombies, Kinks, and Os Mutantes. Since then, of course, he has gone pretty heavily into soul and funk music. I think most of the output from Gay Parade onward (meaning well over a decade's worth and quite a few albums) is worth listening to. For my money, of Montreal is up there with Belle & Sebastian, Tom Waits, Bob Dylan, and a couple other acts as most consistently good over the past 10 years.

Indeed, his whole output for the past 10 years is worth digging out. I think really up to the EP 'Icons, Abstract Thee' is work of a genius. Of course, now Kevin sites Prince and more modern pieces of music as his influence (as well as some late 70s funk stuff), so I do think for people here at the board a good starting point would be 'The Gay Parade' or 'Coquelicot'. Other bands to check out from the same scene are of course 'Olivia Tremor Control' and the Apples in Stereo.

And don't forget Neutral Milk Hotel, Elf Power, and Dressy Bessy!

Absolutely! And of course Circulatory System, Great Lakes' first album, oh and frikkin' Beulah (maybe even Miles Kurosky's solo album if that can be called 'Elephant 6')

[homeontherange]

I love of Montreal to death. But only their work up to around 2004. Coquelicot is one of the best albums I've ever heard, and definitely very SMiLE-esque. Brian and Kevin are two kinds of songwriters though. Both have an extreme melodic gift (Brian a little more), but they create different sorts of arrangements.

I'd say Kevin is more Beatles-inspired when it comes to song structures. They approach chord changes in different ways. Kevin would never sit down by the piano pounding out weird inverted chords in an obsessed way like Brian, but he definitely likes to change key. A lot. Fast, unpredictable chords, but never like PS/Smile-Brian who refused to return to the root chord and just played around with different inversions, in a slower more sophisticated way. Kevin likes to play clean, straight chords (sometimes diminished) with some extended harmony and he likes to use the root chord. Almost never lets the bass play a 5th or 7th for more than a bar which PS/Smile-Brian loved to do, and often built the songs around these inversions. And I think Kevin writes most of his songs on the guitar, which is different from writing on the piano, ofcourse.
So I think they are similar in the way that they write these brilliant and innovative melodies, on top of deep, complex arrangements but their arrangements and chords are formed in different ways.

I've never read about Kevin being inspired by Brian, but he must've been right? Does anyone have a link to prove this? I've found that most of my favourite songwriters actually are inspired by BW and it's always a pleasure to read great songwriters praising each other. Daniel Rossen, Elliott Smith and Tony Banks are a few of my favourites who see him as the biggest inspiration.

[the captain]

Your assessment of Kevin's style is probably not far off up through the albums you like, but it's pretty dramatically different (other than that he still likes to change chords and keys pretty often) from Satanic Panic onward. Since then, he actually uses a lot of inversions and even numerous bass lines so that it's not so much actual chord as implied chords at times. He wrote on guitar mostly up through Adhils, but began playing piano around Gay Parade and writes on piano and guitar now. And bass.

Interestingly, in one way he is more Brian/Smile-like now than before, in that the recording style he used for a few years in there was very much a modular thing. This is especially true on Skeletal Lamping.

He does love mid-60s Beach Boys and has discussed Brian off and on, especially back when he was in that 60s pop phase, but he was always more likely to cite Zombies, Kinks, and Os Mutantes as favorites. These days he's more likely to cite Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Parliament/Funkadelic, or Prince. And of course the modern artists like Fiery Furnaces, Janelle Monae, MIA, and some others he's been known to praise. (I actually love that about him: I don't think enough artists pay attention, or pay due praise, to other current artists.)

[tansen]

Your assessment of Kevin's style is probably not far off up through the albums you like, but it's pretty dramatically different (other than that he still likes to change chords and keys pretty often) from Satanic Panic onward. Since then, he actually uses a lot of inversions and even numerous bass lines so that it's not so much actual chord as implied chords at times. He wrote on guitar mostly up through Adhils, but began playing piano around Gay Parade and writes on piano and guitar now. And bass.

Interestingly, in one way he is more Brian/Smile-like now than before, in that the recording style he used for a few years in there was very much a modular thing. This is especially true on Skeletal Lamping.

He does love mid-60s Beach Boys and has discussed Brian off and on, especially back when he was in that 60s pop phase, but he was always more likely to cite Zombies, Kinks, and Os Mutantes as favorites. These days he's more likely to cite Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Parliament/Funkadelic, or Prince. And of course the modern artists like Fiery Furnaces, Janelle Monae, MIA, and some others he's been known to praise. (I actually love that about him: I don't think enough artists pay attention, or pay due praise, to other current artists.)

It might be true that he uses a more modular approach on Hissing Fauna and onwards, but unfortunately the quality of the songwriting has deteriorate from that point (all though I think he's still got it on Hissing, particularly shown through the EP Icons, Abstract Thee.

While I appreciate that he sites current artists as influence, I think it is unfortunate that the artists he do praise has nothing to do with what I fell in love with in Kevin's music all those years ago. It's true what you say about Prince being a major influence on him these days, and it's quite audible on both Skeletal Lamping and False Priest. And while I think it's good that songwriters develop in their writing, to me being influenced by Prince's music is not a positive development, but rather a step back - at least when it comes to good melodies, complex/rapid chord changes, vintage instrumentation, etc - all those features that made (IMO) of Montreal one of the best bands to ever exist.

Don't get me wrong, I love Marvin Gaye and Funkadelic, but it is not the 60s/early 70s versions of those artists that Kevin seems to be influenced by.

Just me few cents..

[the captain]

I disagree. I loved the early stuff, but (in part because I also consider Prince one of the greatest handful of American pop musicians ever) I think Hissing Fauna and False Priest are among OM's top couple of albums ever. False Priest, in particular. I think KB has become much more interesting as his palette has expanded--it's my opinion that most of the pop is still there, it's just wearing new clothes. Anyway, it's a a matter of preference, and the every few albums have sounded pretty dramatically different than those before in a lot of ways. I can understand that if Gay Parade/Coquelicot were someone's favorite, obviously things have changed a lot away from that sound and a person might not like the changes.

[tansen]

I disagree. I loved the early stuff, but (in part because I also consider Prince one of the greatest handful of American pop musicians ever) I think Hissing Fauna and False Priest are among OM's top couple of albums ever. False Priest, in particular. I think KB has become much more interesting as his palette has expanded--it's my opinion that most of the pop is still there, it's just wearing new clothes. Anyway, it's a a matter of preference, and the every few albums have sounded pretty dramatically different than those before in a lot of ways. I can understand that if Gay Parade/Coquelicot were someone's favorite, obviously things have changed a lot away from that sound and a person might not like the changes.

Sure, if you're a Prince fan I can certainly see that you are drawn to oM's later output. But yeah, like I explained above, it's the old features of the band that drew me to them, and unfortunately most of those features are now gone. I do still believe that Kevin's still got it though, I just don't appreciate the direction he has taken with the last two albums. The man is nevertheless a genius, no doubt there.

[soniclovenoize]

Anyone heard the new of Montreal song?  IN a dramatic twist, Barnes is suddenly making something reminiscent of Gay Parade-era of Montreal! 

Don't believe it?  I didn't either...

http://www.ofmontreal.net/wintered-debts/

What do you guys think?  I haven't been interested in their "Prince-era" so this is actually pretty exciting! 

[tansen]

Anyone heard the new of Montreal song?  IN a dramatic twist, Barnes is suddenly making something reminiscent of Gay Parade-era of Montreal!  

Don't believe it?  I didn't either...

http://www.ofmontreal.net/wintered-debts/

What do you guys think?  I haven't been interested in their "Prince-era" so this is actually pretty exciting!  

So much better than anything he's done in ages. I am pleased! Thanks for the heads up buddy.

[the captain]

I don't think I'd call it any kind of return to Gay Parade sounds--the things he has acquired along the way sound like they're there to me (like beats at :41, 1:45, etc). But then I also have argued he never left those early sounds behind, just kept building on them.

Anyway, this is definitely cool. He has said the next album heavily incorporates orchestral instruments and is likely to annoy fans who are looking for more of same. Thanks a lot for posting.

[tansen]

I agree, I wouldn't say Gay Parade'ish, but definitely in the vein of Satanic / Sunlandic / Hissing, and that is definitely good!

[trismegistus]

Anyone heard the new of Montreal song?  IN a dramatic twist, Barnes is suddenly making something reminiscent of Gay Parade-era of Montreal! 

Don't believe it?  I didn't either...

http://www.ofmontreal.net/wintered-debts/

What do you guys think?  I haven't been interested in their "Prince-era" so this is actually pretty exciting! 

Pretty good, I dig it. I agree with the others by saying it reminds me more of Hissing Fauna than Gay Parade, but either way it's a solid track. I'm normally more of an Apples or Olivia Tremor Control fan as far as Elephant 6 goes, but I wouldn't mind picking this album up...

[soniclovenoize]

Pretty good, I dig it. I agree with the others by saying it reminds me more of Hissing Fauna than Gay Parade, but either way it's a solid track. I'm normally more of an Apples or Olivia Tremor Control fan as far as Elephant 6 goes, but I wouldn't mind picking this album up...

Oh, yeah, I agree.  I'm more excited about this new Olivia Tremor Control album! 

[tansen]

Pretty good, I dig it. I agree with the others by saying it reminds me more of Hissing Fauna than Gay Parade, but either way it's a solid track. I'm normally more of an Apples or Olivia Tremor Control fan as far as Elephant 6 goes, but I wouldn't mind picking this album up...

Oh, yeah, I agree.  I'm more excited about this new Olivia Tremor Control album! 

I hear ya brother. At least that one we KNOW is gonna be all vintage and psychedelic!

[cablegeddon]

Wilco - Capitol City - Sounds very Pet sounds-ish to me.  I never liked that band I happened to listen to the album because it's grammy nominated.

[SG7]

I found Of Montreal thanks to this board way back in 07, pumpkinhead I think it was. Satanic Panic in the Attic is the most Beach Boys influenced one by far. One of my favorites also, ironically enough 

[Alex]

Speaking of E6, when are we going to get anything new from Secret Square, Dressy Bessy, or Neutral Milk Hotel?

[tansen]

Speaking of E6, when are we going to get anything new from Secret Square, Dressy Bessy, or Neutral Milk Hotel?

Well, Jeff has been doing gigs, so who knows?

[the captain]

And there is the about-to-be-released NMH box set, which includes previously unreleased material. Long-since rumors continue to abound that he has a ton of unreleased stuff, too--including the Orange Twin (closest thing to an E6 label, despite common vernacular) statement of a double album's worth they find releasable. But it's consistently nixed.

Overall, though, it's this (not even remotely) humble E6 fan's opinion that most material released under that banner wasn't very good. A perfect imitation is, after all, just an imitation of something implicitly better. And most of the "bands" barely existed in the first place, just one-offs or recombinations of the same people for a new idea. We're a solid decade-plus past the prime, such as it ever was in the first place. Good example of legend overtaking the reality.

What do we have?

One brilliant, brilliant album: Aeroplane.

Plenty of good albums: a batch of OM albums, OTC, Apples in Stereo's better ones, some cool (totally unrelated, musically--more like Flaming Lips, even sharing Fridmann) Elf Power releases, the not-even-E6 Beulah's better records.

Then a bunch of filler. Really. Most of it is filler.

To me, the related artists' best releases these days are by far Hawk and a Hacksaw and of Montreal. Plus Apples in Stereo, which has been cool. Those are the living, breathing acts.

[tansen]

And there is the about-to-be-released NMH box set, which includes previously unreleased material. Long-since rumors continue to abound that he has a ton of unreleased stuff, too--including the Orange Twin (closest thing to an E6 label, despite common vernacular) statement of a double album's worth they find releasable. But it's consistently nixed.

Overall, though, it's this (not even remotely) humble E6 fan's opinion that most material released under that banner wasn't very good. A perfect imitation is, after all, just an imitation of something implicitly better. And most of the "bands" barely existed in the first place, just one-offs or recombinations of the same people for a new idea. We're a solid decade-plus past the prime, such as it ever was in the first place. Good example of legend overtaking the reality.

What do we have?

One brilliant, brilliant album: Aeroplane.

Plenty of good albums: a batch of OM albums, OTC, Apples in Stereo's better ones, some cool (totally unrelated, musically--more like Flaming Lips, even sharing Fridmann) Elf Power releases, the not-even-E6 Beulah's better records.

Then a bunch of filler. Really. Most of it is filler.

To me, the related artists' best releases these days are by far Hawk and a Hacksaw and of Montreal. Plus Apples in Stereo, which has been cool. Those are the living, breathing acts.

I do agree to some extent about some of the E6 stuff being a little daft. But then again, like I said in the original topic, of Montreal's 'Gay Parade' and 'Coquelicot' are almost just as good as any 60's recording - and that says a lot. And like you say, Apples have some truly great albums - my favourite being 'The Discovery of a World Inside the Moone' which I put up there with the mentioned oM albums.

Of course Circulatory System deserves a place under your good albums-banner. And so does Essex Green and Great Lakes' first album (all though they cannot even remotely compete with oM/AIS/OTC). And yeah, Beulah's 'The Coast Is Never Clear' is again one of those almost perfect albums.

As for Neutral MIlk Hotel, I actually agree. Jeff has become this mythical creature which again has made his music very hyped in my opinion - all though like you say, Aeroplane is very good. I never managed to get into 'On Avery Island', even though it's praised high and low.

[the captain]

Just my two cents' worth, but I really think a lot of those albums including Essex Green, Circulatory System, etc., are what I think of as "workmanlike." Very well done in the style they're doing, but I think they're really unremarkable. Is that because the songs themselves don't really jump out at me as great, but rather just well-done pastiche recording/productions of average songs? Or that the very idea of imitative/idol-worship recording hampers things for me? I don't know. But that's my two cents. Along those lines, I actually prefer the most recent couple Apples records to the earlier ones because they've been tossing more ingredients into the mix and coming up with what strike me as more original songs--that and Schneider is, I think, one of the better songwriters to emerge from that whole scene (as well as hands-down the best producer).

It's tough to consider Beulah as really E6 at all. I mean, one record done with Schneider, no real early or strong personal connections to that scene. That said, I think they probably rank as one of the top few bands overall among the bands we're talking about. Their last tour was really awesome, too. Very good live band. (I hate Miles' solo album, though.)

[tansen]

Just my two cents' worth, but I really think a lot of those albums including Essex Green, Circulatory System, etc., are what I think of as "workmanlike." Very well done in the style they're doing, but I think they're really unremarkable. Is that because the songs themselves don't really jump out at me as great, but rather just well-done pastiche recording/productions of average songs? Or that the very idea of imitative/idol-worship recording hampers things for me? I don't know. But that's my two cents. Along those lines, I actually prefer the most recent couple Apples records to the earlier ones because they've been tossing more ingredients into the mix and coming up with what strike me as more original songs--that and Schneider is, I think, one of the better songwriters to emerge from that whole scene (as well as hands-down the best producer).

It's tough to consider Beulah as really E6 at all. I mean, one record done with Schneider, no real early or strong personal connections to that scene. That said, I think they probably rank as one of the top few bands overall among the bands we're talking about. Their last tour was really awesome, too. Very good live band. (I hate Miles' solo album, though.)

That's fair enough. I guess Circulatory System's music is more of sonic landscapes then songs in a way. But then again, so is a lot of Smile. I disagree about Apple's music being better now than before. Sure they are more 'original', but both oM and Apples made psychedelic 60s pop like no others.
Sure, Beulah is not really E6, that is true. But it's a band that is often said to be in the same genre as what came out of E6. I love Miles' record by the way, and I definitely feel it is in the same vein as 'The Coast Is Never Clear'. As for producing, Robert and Kevin are definitely the best ones in that scene. All though good old Bryce Goggin did the Apples' last two records.