Beach Boys live in '61-62 without instruments?

[OBLiO]

I sent of a couple e-mails to people I don't even know, but who might have some info or point in a direction.

But look at this! http://www.myspace.com/themixtures/photos/1641726#{%22ImageId%22%3A1641656}

looks like the pic Andrew posted is circa 1960 and Candy Mendoza was taking pictures... was he still taking pictures in 1962?

Would the Beach Boys have performed under the name Pendletones or Kenny and the Cadets even though they had the single out as the Beach Boys? Did Capitol ever send out official photographers for promo shots?
Thinking out loud again

[Andrew G. Doe]

I sent of a couple e-mails to people I don't even know, but who might have some info or point in a direction.

But look at this! http://www.myspace.com/themixtures/photos/1641726#{%22ImageId%22%3A1641656}

looks like the pic Andrew posted is circa 1960 and Candy Mendoza was taking pictures... was he still taking pictures in 1962?

Would the Beach Boys have performed under the name Pendletones or Kenny and the Cadets even though they had the single out as the Beach Boys? Did Capitol ever send out official photographers for promo shots?
Thinking out loud again

The band only ever performed as The Beach Boys (Kenny & The Cadets was never an early name, but something else entirely). There are official Capitol promo shots, but those date from the summer.

[bgas]

I sent of a couple e-mails to people I don't even know, but who might have some info or point in a direction.

But look at this! http://www.myspace.com/themixtures/photos/1641726#{%22ImageId%22%3A1641656}

looks like the pic Andrew posted is circa 1960 and Candy Mendoza was taking pictures... was he still taking pictures in 1962?

Would the Beach Boys have performed under the name Pendletones or Kenny and the Cadets even though they had the single out as the Beach Boys? Did Capitol ever send out official photographers for promo shots?
Thinking out loud again

Unless I'm wrong, Candy didn't take the pictures, they were just provided by him. Now IF he's still alive, he might be a good contact for other pics. 

[OBLiO]

Unless I'm wrong, Candy didn't take the pictures, they were just provided by him. Now IF he's still alive, he might be a good contact for other pics.  

found another cool link: http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6930116

Cruisin' East L.A.: Eighteen Hits From The 60's CD

Recording information: Rainbow Gardens, Pomona, CA.

Introduction by: Billy Cardenas.

Photographers: Chick Carlton; Candilario "Candy" Mendoza.

[OBLiO]

from here: http://www.laweekly.com/2005-12-29/news/naa-na-na-na-naa/

"Many of these stories would have remained untold if not for Emmy-winning television sound engineer Hector Gonzalez. Gonzalez (more on him later) has compiled a wealth of history from interviews he conducted with Davis and others, and from the legacy Davis left to him when he died of cancer in 1994, including the Rampart Records label, master recordings from the era, press clippings, memorabilia — in essence, the Rosetta stone of the West Coast Eastside sound.From those sources, and from recent interviews with Cardenas and surviving musicians and personalities from the era’s heyday, comes this look at some of the men who helped create the West Coast Eastside sound, and changed American rock & roll in the process."

Anyone know Hector Gonzalez?

[guitarfool2002]

AND: Pendleton shirts are apparently back in style today. A boutique in Philadelphia which sells a lot of retro clothes like Levis 501 jeans and Red Wing boots has a major display of Pendleton shirts! They show the Beach Boys connection to their Board Shirt as part of the company's legacy, which I thought was neat. I just thought that was a neat and out of the blue tie-in to this thread, to see Pendleton shirts back in style and on display in Philly.

I just checked out the Pendleton website. I imagine that back in the day, the shirts didn't cost what they do now, which was anywhere from $50 to $100.00.   Little steep, dont ya think?

Two ways to look at this:

- The shirts are very high-quality shirts which last and look good

- The cost of being hip, retro, and stylish can be quite high, even if the patterns are 50 years old

Now I'm wondering if the maker of those checkered jackets the Beach Boys are sporting in the other photo plan to reissue and promote them too...somehow I doubt it.

[Robbo]

Going by confirmed concerts, which is the first actual band shot?

March 10, 1962, Bel Air Bay Club (that we're aware of). That predates the signing for Capitol by a good four months. The interesting/frustrating thing is, it's obviously taken by someone who was at least semi-pro, which means there may have been others.

It was for a newspaper article. I don't know which one it was, but local to the L.A. area I believe.

[OBLiO]

So, I am in Montebello today and I stop at the park there and then I go to this shop. The guy there remembers the Standells playing in 1966. He was busy so I didn't get a chance to talk to him except for a few minutes. I am driving and pass the American Legion Hall and stop there just to have a look and meet a guy there who says "Oh yeah I went to high school with Mike Love". He was in the middle of something so I didn't get to talk to him but for a few minutes. What are the odds?

[adamghost]

Weird.

I did e-mail Larry about this but he either didn't see the e-mail or didn't feel like bothering with it.  I'll ask him about it when we're on the road later this month.

[Robbo]

Here's the article

[attachment deleted by admin]

[OBLiO]

Weird.

It was... I parked in back and walked up to the back door and the sign on the door said to use the front. There were guys inside setting up tables for a meeting. So I start walking to the front, but the guy came out and asked "can I help you?" He is getting something from the trunk of his car and I start talking about the music circuit and mention the Beach Boys... he says he is from the west side but lives out here now. He remembered Mike's sister, (Maureen?)... said she played harp and she was a brain... smart. He went into the service and was watching TV and saw Mike "Hey I know that guy". The conversation ended when another guy came out... they had to get the meeting started... I never even went into the building.

[adamghost]

Alright, I talked to Larry about this today in rehearsal.  Unfortunately, he doesn't have that much to add to what he already told me.  His memory is very vague, and he was surprised that the date was as late as 1962 (which of course it had to be).  I can add a couple of things:

1.  He was part of the house band, and he regularly learned whatever songs there were for the artists playing on whatever night.  He mentioned two other people he had backed up as Ral Donner and Conway Twitty.

2.  He remembers Dennis playing drums "standing up."  This fits the mental image of a vocal group.  Possibly Dennis just played snare and hi-hat?

3.  He THINKS there were four people in the BBs (I did not prompt him on this in any way).

4.  He can't say for sure that one of the guys wasn't playing guitar...though his earlier impression was that none of them had played except Dennis.  I think we can extrapolate from this that at least Brian and Mike didn't play anything, which fits what we know.

5.  A typical set at the Ballroom was 3-4 songs.

That's all I got.  It doesn't tell us much, but it's intriguing.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Alright, I talked to Larry about this today in rehearsal.  Unfortunately, he doesn't have that much to add to what he already told me.  His memory is very vague, and he was surprised that the date was as late as 1962 (which of course it had to be).  I can add a couple of things:

1.  He was part of the house band, and he regularly learned whatever songs there were for the artists playing on whatever night.  He mentioned two other people he had backed up as Ral Donner and Conway Twitty.

2.  He remembers Dennis playing drums "standing up."  This fits the mental image of a vocal group.  Possibly Dennis just played snare and hi-hat?

3.  He THINKS there were four people in the BBs (I did not prompt him on this in any way).

4.  He can't say for sure that one of the guys wasn't playing guitar...though his earlier impression was that none of them had played except Dennis.  I think we can extrapolate from this that at least Brian and Mike didn't play anything, which fits what we know.

5.  A typical set at the Ballroom was 3-4 songs.

That's all I got.  It doesn't tell us much, but it's intriguing.

Excellent stuff, Adam.

1 - makes sense and let's face it, how hard would it be to learn "Surfin'" & "Safari" ?

2 - snare/hi-hat makes perfect sense

3 - four piece fits perfectly too, and without being prompted is researchers gold !

4 & 5 - again, all fits nicely without recourse to a hammer. 

[OBLiO]

That's all I got.  It doesn't tell us much, but it's intriguing.

It does tell us Larry was regular with the house band at that time though, which is good info itself. It gives us a visual, too. It fits with the recording dates of the Mixtures record which is the same week as the Beach Boys performance there. I've been looking at all the groups and musicians from that time and what the scene was here and I have a better understanding of where the Beach Boys come from. The Beach Boy touring bands have been multi-cultural... something I have always noticed. 3 or 4 songs... what would the set list be? Surfin... Surfin Safari... Luau... Judy... something like that maybe? The thing that really jumps out at me, which didn't really hit me until Andrew posted the first gigs in another thread, is that they were in the recording studio before their first gig.

I have been talking to people from the area and they remember the Standells and Cannibal and the Headhunters... my hope is to find someone who remembers a Beach Boys performance and find a picture. When I get a chance to go out to Pomona, I have a few stops I can make... fingers crossed... something might turn up.

The drum set-up might have been a snare and cymbal if Dennis was standing.

good stuff

[bgas]

That's all I got.  It doesn't tell us much, but it's intriguing.

It does tell us Larry was regular with the house band at that time though, which is good info itself. It gives us a visual, too. It fits with the recording dates of the Mixtures record which is the same week as the Beach Boys performance there. I've been looking at all the groups and musicians from that time and what the scene was here and I have a better understanding of where the Beach Boys come from. The Beach Boy touring bands have been multi-cultural... something I have always noticed. 3 or 4 songs... what would the set list be? Surfin... Surfin Safari... Luau... Judy... something like that maybe? The thing that really jumps out at me, which didn't really hit me until Andrew posted the first gigs in another thread, is that they were in the recording studio before their first gig.

I have been talking to people from the area and they remember the Standells and Cannibal and the Headhunters... my hope is to find someone who remembers a Beach Boys performance and find a picture. When I get a chance to go out to Pomona, I have a few stops I can make... fingers crossed... something might turn up.

The drum set-up might have been a snare and cymbal if Dennis was standing.

good stuff

This is great! What's needed is what you're doing, going out and trying to find people that might have seen them; at this point in time that's probably the only way we'll ever find any new information about something this far past. 

[Ian]

should be stated that the Gigs/Sessions info at Bellagio is pretty damn accurate (and I should know cuz I compiled a lot of it) but some of those early 62 shows are not certain as to dates.  The Rainbow Gardens shows may or may not have taken on those exact dates-I have never seen an ad, flyer or anything on them. All I know is that Bob Eubanks told David Leaf for his Beach Boys Book that he paid the group 150 dollars to play there. Ron Swallow also recalled them playing there a few times.  But the dates we list are the best we have for now.  Badman listed the dates of Feb 16 and 17 but his source is unknown to me.  That being said-since so many of Badman's dates turned out to be wrong-I was ready to chuck all his dates when I got a hold of East LA Community College papesr from 62 and found confirmation (ads) for all his Pandora's Box listings-so Keith did have some decent sources for some of his 62 info-though I don't know what they were.  Another fellow named Rory supplied the March dates for more Rainbow Gardens shows-but never gave up the source of his info.

[guitarfool2002]

I'd like to ask for a clarification: Is it being suggested that Bob Eubanks paid this early line-up of the band $150 to play 3-4 songs, without full instrumentation? Or is he talking about later shows when the Beach Boys were more established as a band and would deliver a more full set of music with instruments?

150 in 1962 was a lot of money. Just sayin'

[adamghost]

One thing I should add that doesn't exactly jibe, but is significant, is that Larry was skeptical that it was as late as 1962, since he said "once I was in the Standells [who formed in '62], I didn't play with anybody else."  So one way to triangulate the date is to find out when the first Standells gigs were.  Larry said he'd research that when he had time but someone else may be able to find the information.  Larry did say a lot of the information on the 'net was wrong.

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

[adamghost]

Also, can we correlate the Ral Donner and Conway Twitty appearances?

[OBLiO]

should be stated that the Gigs/Sessions info at Bellagio is pretty damn accurate (and I should know cuz I compiled a lot of it) but some of those early 62 shows are not certain as to dates.  The Rainbow Gardens shows may or may not have taken on those exact dates-I have never seen an ad, flyer or anything on them. All I know is that Bob Eubanks told David Leaf for his Beach Boys Book that he paid the group 150 dollars to play there. Ron Swallow also recalled them playing there a few times.  But the dates we list are the best we have for now.  Badman listed the dates of Feb 16 and 17 but his source is unknown to me.  That being said-since so many of Badman's dates turned out to be wrong-I was ready to chuck all his dates when I got a hold of East LA Community College papesr from 62 and found confirmation (ads) for all his Pandora's Box listings-so Keith did have some decent sources for some of his 62 info-though I don't know what they were.  Another fellow named Rory supplied the March dates for more Rainbow Gardens shows-but never gave up the source of his info.

Ok... all in all it looks like 5 shows total... maybe 150 bucks for 5 shows? All on Friday nights except that one Saturday. Seems to fit. Those two shows on the 16th and 17th are the same week as the Mixtures recording which was the Monday before. An ad or flyer would be a good thing, eh? Were the East L.A. Community College papers a compilation of papers... i.e. articles from a local Pomona paper included?

The idea for me is to just kind of ask around... that kind of thing... it's a total shot in the dark finding people who went to the venue and would remember the bands that played there. That random meeting with the guy at the American Legion Hall and his memory clicked right in... I am taking it as a good sign. I have a couple other ideas, too... again, fingers crossed.

Cande Mendoza passed away in 2008.

The Ballroom venues are an important part of our culture. Found this link on youtube for the Rendezvous Ballroom in Balboa/Newport Beach... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVMMOLAZN8g     ...if the Beach Boys first gig was there, that place had tons of history. Nowadays, ballrooms are mainly in hotels.

Wouldn't Brian or Mike remember these gigs? Not the actual dates, but the set list and what they wore and what the scene was?

Found this article dated April 24th, 2011... hmmm... http://www.seattlepi.com/default/article/Music-Review-The-Mixtures-Stompin-At-The-1320856.php      "Pick up this lost bit of Americana, it is filled with great music."

Just noticed something from this link: http://www.surfingmuseum.org/exhibit/reunion/rendezvous.html
"Dick Dale & The Del-Tones played their last show at the ballroom on December 23, 1961."
Their last show there is the Beach Boys first show? The Beach Boys aren't listed as having played there.

This is the most interesting part to me: that musicians or a crowd on the Mixtures circuit wouldn't want to hear surf songs and the reception would be poor from a surf crowd at a surf venue in Balboa.

[Andrew G. Doe]

One thing I should add that doesn't exactly jibe, but is significant, is that Larry was skeptical that it was as late as 1962, since he said "once I was in the Standells [who formed in '62], I didn't play with anybody else."  So one way to triangulate the date is to find out when the first Standells gigs were.  Larry said he'd research that when he had time but someone else may be able to find the information.  Larry did say a lot of the information on the 'net was wrong.

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

If his recollection of there being only four in the band is accurate, that places the date very precisely between early February (post 8th) and March 2nd 1962. This info is independent of Badman. 

[bgas]

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

What date does Larry think it was? 

As to the Standells, What about Tony Valentino, aka Emilio Tony Belilissimo ? (he supposedly owns a Woodland Hills CA restaurant named Bellisimo's)  Seems like maybe he'd know when the Standells formed.
 I seriously doubt the BBs gig at the Gardens was any earlier.

What I'd like to hear about: someone finding people that attended Surf Nite featuring "The BEACHBOY'S" at  Presbyterian Church  54th st & Mullen( w. of Crenshaw). They gave away a surfboard as a door prize, so maybe someone remembers that!  (Thursday January 25th, 1962)  Admission was $1
Like who else was on the bill? How many BBs were there, and what did they play? 
Maybe the church has records of their time as a concert hall?

[OBLiO]

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

What date does Larry think it was?  

As to the Standells, What about Tony Valentino, aka Emilio Tony Belilissimo ? (he supposedly owns a Woodland Hills CA restaurant named Bellisimo's)  Seems like maybe he'd know when the Standells formed.
 I seriously doubt the BBs gig at the Gardens was any earlier.

What I'd like to hear about: someone finding people that attended Surf Nite featuring "The BEACHBOY'S" at  Presbyterian Church  54th st & Mullen( w. of Crenshaw). They gave away a surfboard as a door prize, so maybe someone remembers that!  (Thursday January 25th, 1962)  Admission was $1
Like who else was on the bill? How many BBs were there, and what did they play?  
Maybe the church has records of their time as a concert hall?

 
That's the kind of thing I am thinking of. I can't drive all over, right now, but I can get out to Pomona, maybe even this coming week... some of these places might even have a picture hanging on the wall.

Ian... one of the dates you have for a show in '92, the Pro Set Awards... you have that as the 20th and I was at that show... I am still looking for my program, which I think I still have, but found a scan of it on the net... and the cover shows the 19th... I put it up on another thread here...

The Standells first gig was 3 months in Hawaii... haven't found the actual date, yet... but what a cool first gig.

[adamghost]

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

What date does Larry think it was?  

As to the Standells, What about Tony Valentino, aka Emilio Tony Belilissimo ? (he supposedly owns a Woodland Hills CA restaurant named Bellisimo's)  Seems like maybe he'd know when the Standells formed.
 I seriously doubt the BBs gig at the Gardens was any earlier.

Considering I replaced Tony Valentino in the band (well, actually, I replaced the guy who replaced him), I'm thinking he might not be very receptive to an inquiry from me!

I wouldn't put an incredible amount of stock in Larry saying there was 4 of them.  I wouldn't say he was sure.  The one thing I thought was interesting was I would expect him to say there were 5, since that's the way most people visualize the band, so if his memory was vague, I would expect him to say that.  

I'm wondering if it wasn't the very first gig.  The reason I say this is we have a very narrow window here.  Larry was surprised it was as late as '62 because he was moving into the Standells at that point.  He also doesn't remember any other gigs, just the one.  We have the possibility of four Beach Boys playing as a non-band (which would make sense if Jardine was gone...they'd need a backup band in that case).  And the Mixtures session was in mid-February, correct?  In fact, if Larry was on guitar for the Mixtures' live session on Feb. 12 at the same venue, it pretty much guarantees that we're looking at the 16th and 17th dates I would think...a plausible scenario is Larry is around in mid-February and then moves into the Standells around that time, so he's gone by March.

[bgas]

It seems pretty clear that this was a very early gig...in fact, one thing that occurs to me is Larry seems to be thinking of one specific date.  He has no recollection of them playing there was a full band -- so it seems like he was gone by the time of the later Ballroom dates.

What date does Larry think it was?  

As to the Standells, What about Tony Valentino, aka Emilio Tony Belilissimo ? (he supposedly owns a Woodland Hills CA restaurant named Bellisimo's)  Seems like maybe he'd know when the Standells formed.
 I seriously doubt the BBs gig at the Gardens was any earlier.

Considering I replaced Tony Valentino in the band (well, actually, I replaced the guy who replaced him), I'm thinking he might not be very receptive to an inquiry from me!

I wouldn't put an incredible amount of stock in Larry saying there was 4 of them.  I wouldn't say he was sure.  The one thing I thought was interesting was I would expect him to say there were 5, since that's the way most people visualize the band, so if his memory was vague, I would expect him to say that.  

I'm wondering if it wasn't the very first gig.  The reason I say this is we have a very narrow window here.  Larry was surprised it was as late as '62 because he was moving into the Standells at that point.  He also doesn't remember any other gigs, just the one.  We have the possibility of four Beach Boys playing as a non-band (which would make sense if Jardine was gone...they'd need a backup band in that case).  And the Mixtures session was in mid-February, correct?  In fact, if Larry was on guitar for the Mixtures' live session on Feb. 12 at the same venue, it pretty much guarantees that we're looking at the 16th and 17th dates I would think...a plausible scenario is Larry is around in mid-February and then moves into the Standells around that time, so he's gone by March.

If you have contact info for Tony, Ian might want to talk to him, and if not I'll be glad to! I call and talk to guys from the old surf bands whenever I get info/ chance to call, trying to find BBs concert info. 

As to Larry:  His remembrance of 4 members is a good thing. But I'm wondering about the "only one date" part. Thinking about it, it seems less likley that they played TWO nights in a row. Couple that with the Bob Eubanks quote of paying them to play on a FRIDAY night, and I wonder where the Badman info for a two nite gig came from.  Either way, I'm betting the Standells didn't come along until after the show(s) at Rainbow Gardens. 
 As to the Mixtures recording, I'm under the impression that their LP was recorded live W/O Larry, and his input was added later in a studio.