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Author Topic: Exodus Part Three: The Resign Thread + The Long Version Of What Happened  (Read 59734 times)
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costly bow
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2006, 02:48:29 PM »

Chuck, where the hell have I been?

Don't bother answering, I'll tell ya!

I was on the old site for weeks, posting ...nobody said anything back..the days went on and on. I finally gave up and headed into the forrest, into the black of night, to find you all again. With wolves, bear's,TV's and freaks snarling for a piece of me I battled tooth and nail to find my way home. Finally on my last legs, with nothing left to give, I ran into an impoverished but knowing lad who told me tales of hackers with ships abandoned and rebuilt, he pointed to the west. I struggled onward, up hills and through valley's, passing a weakened DOOM on the way, until...at last...Eutopia was found again.



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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2006, 02:58:22 PM »

hi costly bow.  i'm mike.  charles said something inappropriate to laurie arleen whatever her name is (wasn't she in the middle of the last mess?  i'd say this is strike two!  i kid, i kid) in private pm's.  certain people know, and they are throwing stones because they are sin-less.  i'd go over to the smile shop if i were you.  that's where all the innocent freaks hang!

http://thesmileshop.phpwebhosting.com/forum/index.php

i feel for ya chuck.  everybody makes mistakes.  especially on the internet.  things surely get blown out of proportion, don't they?
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costly bow
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2006, 03:09:31 PM »

Bastards!
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Old Rake
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2006, 03:10:16 PM »

yup, continue to blame the victim. Its easy, when all evidence of activity gets deleted.
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costly bow
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« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2006, 03:13:33 PM »

Deleted? Bastards!
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2006, 03:18:27 PM »

no one's saying any one is a victim.  in fact, if i were to say someone were a victim, i would say it is everybody.  now we're all into the drama and looking here and looking there to see what the deal is and what side we should be on.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=victim

at any rate, i just thought this would be the right topic to "ask charles" about what he said that offended laurie arleen. 

guess not.  no biggie!  words will never make ME a victim.   Grin
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2006, 03:23:44 PM »

Quote
what side we should be on.


The only side being chosen is that in favor of not harassing women.
I could post the offensiveness, but I have too much class for that.
This isn't a chess game, it's serious.
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2006, 03:27:20 PM »

typing words to somebody i don't know, and can't even prove exists...has never seemed serious to me in the least. 

now, should that someone come up to me on the street and pinch my ass?  well then, that's cause for alarm!    Shocked

as for these letters i'm typing and words i'm forming...don't let them bother you.  not only do i mean you or anybody any harm...they can absolutely do no one any harm.  i can prove it.

anyways, i'd never side for something bad like harrassment, or self-righteousness.  nope.  not never!
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« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2006, 03:46:50 PM »

ask chuck.

what did you say?

All will be explained, later tonight I hope.
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theCOD
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« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2006, 03:47:20 PM »

Isn't this EXACTLY what happened with the Prof?  Seems a bit odd to me. Lips Sealed
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« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2006, 04:19:19 PM »

I'm out of here too.
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« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2006, 04:36:49 PM »

Those who care to look closely elsewhere will see that it is not just the PM mess that is going on.  Chuck has established a pattern of behavior that has disturbed many of the regular posters to this site.  This can be found in other threads elsewhere.
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« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2006, 04:49:31 PM »

Deleting your membership to a board only to keep posting as a guest makes the resignation a pretty empty gesture.
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« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2006, 05:00:19 PM »

ask chuck.

what did you say?

All will be explained, later tonight I hope.

assuming of course that you tell the absolute truth,and nothing less...but then how will we I know ?
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« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2006, 05:03:56 PM »

is it me, or did the activity of this board just died after this afternoon?

usually I cant keep up with the new posts...today Im actually bored!
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« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2006, 05:32:33 PM »

So long, LandLubbers.
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« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2006, 05:35:44 PM »

Anyone ever see the episode of That 70's Show when Donna says to Eric about something else going on,

"Draaaama  Tongue "

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« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2006, 06:05:08 PM »

Quite some time ago, I provided a message board for the Smile Shop web site.  It was my pleasure to do so, as a member of the Beach Boy online community, as a means of giving something back to fans and professionals who had given me so much for so many years.  One day, however, I was told all was not well on the board.  Someone using the nickname of "The Professor" had been sending sexual and harassing private messages on the board, I was told, and he was now posting public messages that were not sexual, but problematic none the less.  Unfortunately, I was informed of this at the tail end of the incident, and was not privy to all the facts.  Trusting what I was told, I banned the Professor.  Shortly afterwards, Jon Hunt and John Lane announced they were shutting the board down in anticipation of starting a new board and new Smile Shop site.  Not wanting to abandon the community on the board, I started the Smiley Smile board and site.  It appeared to be the best solution at the time, to keep the existing community together.

Shortly after the Smiley Smile board started, a message thread started where members were posting pictures of themselves.  It evolved into people using Photoshop to make humorous combinations of backgrounds and member photos.  I myself made a couple of combinations that included the woman who I was told was harassed by the Professor.  She let me know she thought the photos were funny.  Shortly after that, the woman in question and I sent private messages to each other in the morning, telling each other "good morning," "have a nice day at work," and so on.  This seemed harmless enough to me.  However, she announced to me privately that my attention to her was making her "uncomfortable," and to please stop it.  This caught me by surprise, since the exchange of greetings seemed harmless to me, but I apologized and stopped the conversation.  This made me wonder just how one sided the Professor incident really was.  I was told he had been sending this woman the suggestive messages for months, and that she admitted that she told him right up until the end she enjoyed the messages.  Also, I learned when the Professor was asked by her to stop, he did.

Thinking the matter settled, I dropped it.  But I found that every so often, the woman or someone she associated with on the board would bring it up, and the matter became increasingly exaggerated.  By the time of the message you are now reading, it's been said on the board I was harassing her privately and I had seen naked photos of her, none of which is true.  I can honestly say I've not seen naked photos of anyone on this board, and don't want to.  Unfortunately, there are people who have made a point of creating a reputation for me that is false.  I did my best to keep what I knew to myself and keep the matter private, despite what was being posted.

Most recently, there was a message thread where people were joking about blindness.  I made two jokes that I'm told were offensive, and while I didn't see the harm in the jokes, I apologized.  However, this became another opportunity to bring up my supposed harassing of this woman, sometimes in blatant ways, sometimes in subtle ways.  Even after things settled down and most people seemed to be getting along well, the woman in question continued to make public comments about me.  I asked her what the current problem was, and she asked to take it to private messages, so I did.  I told her in language she considered to be "mean" that if she was so bothered by the mention of her suffering on this board, she shouldn't continue to bring it up in public, especially since it was clear to me from what I had learned that she wasn't a helpless, innocent woman being stalked by evil men.  I made it clear I firmly believed that both her and the Professor were at fault, and that I was tired of being painted as an online stalker who was mean to women.  Instead of dropping the matter, she chose to tell other people online that I was "harassing" her.  Some of those people have chosen to delete their membership on this board.

I said all that so I could say this:  I am not perfect, and I'm not here to cast stones at anyone.  I've done stupid stuff online and offline.  However, I have not harassed anyone on this board, publicly or privately.  I have only made it clear that something that should have been finished and forgotten a long time ago had been blown into something ridiculous, at my expense.  I have done my best to do this not out of anger or revenge.  I simply want people to know what they are talking about before they accuse me of an activity.

To the people who have left:  you are all welcome back.  Not because the board can't survive without you, but because I do not want people to leave based on emotional reactions based on poor information.  If you believe you cannot participate here, I wish you well, but I also want you and everyone else to know, I did not ask or tell anyone to leave, and I do not agree with their decisions.  I appreciate the loyalty you are showing a friend, but this was a matter that should have been between the two of us.  She is a 40 year old married woman who does not need a posse of virtual big brothers and sisters defending and protecting her.  She has proven to be very able to take care of herself when she feels it necessary.

To Jon Hunt:  again, I appreciate the loyalty you are showing.  I see have been banned at the IP level from the Smile Shop message board.  I will not do that to anyone who has decided to leave this message board.  I am not going to add to the useless drama permeating this board any more than I have to.  I also will not let this nonsense poison the relevant parts of this site or board.  They will continue unblemished.

To Jeff Mason: you said tonight "Chuck has established a pattern of behavior that has disturbed many of the regular posters to this site.  This can be found in other threads elsewhere."  Strangely, this supposed pattern hasn't caused any issues on the relevant parts of this board.  You've also made it clear you have many issues with me, this board and this site that go way beyond anything recent events.  I believe nothing I could do or say could make you feel comfortable here.  Just the same, I'm sorry to see you go.

To the woman in question:  I'm sorry you felt the need to once again take a private matter public.  I'm sorry to say, given the facts I have learned over the past months and years, I don't believe everything you've said about being harassed by the Professor, nor do I believe your current outrage is sincere.  I'm sorry you chose to either talk about or share the private messages you asked me to send you recently with others.  I don't intend to post them here.

To all:  I apologize for the interruption.  I apologize for the ill will you have heard about and seen.  Hopefully this will be end to baseless bickering that has been taking place here.  There is more I could share, but I still believe there are details about the events I've related to you that should remain private, no matter what is said about me.  And, I apologize to anyone who I've wronged, or to anyone that perceives I have wronged them.  I'm told I seem unapproachable sometimes, which is true, and that has led to some of the misunderstandings that have taken place.  At the same time, when I'm falsely accused of harassing and sexually harassing a woman, when I'm told I'm "sick" and a "sociopath" for defending myself, I cannot remain completely silent.  To do so would be an affirmation of the accusations.  To do so would be to grant a victory to those who want to convince others "this is exactly what happened with the Prof."

I believe all things work for good.  That is what my faith in Christ teaches me every day.  I believe that all the hurt feelings, the perceptions and misperceptions, the truths and half truths, will all lead to a good result, because that's what God has promised.  My hope is that all who have trespassed, including myself, can forgive and be forgiven.

NBA Coast To Coast is on ESPN2 in a half hour.  I encourage everyone to get off the computer and watch it.

ADDED LATER:

I've made what I hope is a clear statement in the very first post in this thread.

I believe I should add to it by saying, thank you to anyone who has not jumped to any conclusions.  I appreciate it.

Also, I will allow unregistered guests to continue to post here as a courtesy to those who have left the board but wish to continue to participate (yes, it's a contradiction, but what else is new?).  I do not see the value in punishing anyone who felt the need to leave.
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« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2006, 06:23:15 PM »

From Jon Hunt on The Smile Shop:
Chuck posted his version of events.

I'd like to quote liberally from it if I may.


"Shortly afterwards, Jon Hunt and John Lane announced they were shutting the board down in anticipation of starting a new board and new Smile Shop site. Not wanting to abandon the community on the board, I started the Smiley Smile board and site. It appeared to be the best solution at the time, to keep the existing community together."



Note please: we were not happy about that. We made our displeasure very clear, and it was made clear that the answer to that was "tough titties," in no uncertain terms.

I'm still pissed about that, and probably always will be.


"However, she announced to me privately that my attention to her was making her "uncomfortable," and to please stop it. This caught me by surprise, since the exchange of greetings seemed harmless to me, but I apologized and stopped the conversation. This made me wonder just how one sided the Professor incident really was."



And here is where the problems lie. You know what? Whether you think you're right or not, when a woman says that your attentions are making her uncomfortable, you STOP. And you apologize, profusely. PERIOD. Even if your intentions are harmless. Even if you had NOTHING IN MIND WHATSOEVER. YOU STOP. ***PERIOD***.

What you DON'T do is belittle that person's concern.

What you also don't do is belittle everybody else's concern.

Whether you think it deserves it or not, you take it seriously.

Don't they fucking have sexual harassment classes at your place of employ?


"Also, I learned when the Professor was asked by her to stop, he did."



Except he didn't. What he actually told her in a message I personally saw was essentially to "lighten up," to start getting more into the spirit of the EXTREMELY disgusting sexual messages. And this was after he was told to stop.

AGAIN: I SAW THAT MESSAGE.

Sometimes people don't know how to tell the harasser that they find the messages disgusting. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM RIGHT.


"Thinking the matter settled, I dropped it. But I found that every so often, the woman or someone she associated with on the board would bring it up, and the matter became increasingly exaggerated. By the time of the message you are now reading, it's been said on the board I was harassing her privately and I had seen naked photos of her, none of which is true." 



That's fucking BULLSHIT. Nobody had ever said anything like that. Of course, who knows what we said, since the entire thread is deleted -- Chuck could claim at this point that we said he liked to f*** pink elephants, and there'd be no proof.

I will say it again: What Chuck did, and last time I posted this he deleted the message, was to post pictures of Laurie, with her face superimposed over the body of a naked woman in a hot tub. *I* found it extremely inappropriate. John Lane found it equally so. Ian found it doubly so. Just about everybody involved wondered how in the hell it made sense to post something like that SO SOON AFTER THE PROFESSOR INCIDENTS.


"I can honestly say I've not seen naked photos of anyone on this board, and don't want to. Unfortunately, there are people who have made a point of creating a reputation for me that is false. I did my best to keep what I knew to myself and keep the matter private, despite what was being posted."



Yes, we're all out to get him. That's such BULLSHIT -- we said what I just said above: he posted a photoshopped partially-naked picture of Laurie.


"Most recently, there was a message thread where people were joking about blindness. I made two jokes that I'm told were offensive, and while I didn't see the harm in the jokes, I apologized. However, this became another opportunity to bring up my supposed harassing of this woman, sometimes in blatant ways, sometimes in subtle ways."



If Chuck hadn't kept making reference to "I am so UNCOMFORTABLE" all the time, clearly designed to poke at Laurie and anybody who agreed with her, it wouldn't have gotten brought up. Only: it did. Because he did.


"I told her in language she considered to be "mean" "



EVERYBODY considered it to be mean, no ironic quotes.


"what I had learned that she wasn't a helpless, innocent woman being stalked by evil men."



So: Chuck has decided to trust the Prof's words over Laurie's. Brilliant.

And this should be all you need to know, folks.


"Instead of dropping the matter, she chose to tell other people online that I was "harassing" her." 



I saw the messages. They were harassment. PURE AND SIMPLE.

I showed them to my wife, and she was APPALLED. And she doesn't even know the full history. She was just appalled by the "blame the victim" stance.


"However, I have not harassed anyone on this board, publicly or privately." 



Again: I saw the message, and it was clear harassment.


"Not because the board can't survive without you, but because I do not want people to leave based on emotional reactions based on poor information." 



IT WASN'T POOR INFORMATION. I SAW THE MESSAGES. EVEN IF NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED, THOSE MESSAGES CONSITITUTED PURE AND SIMPLE HARASSMENT. Even if there was NOTHING ELSE, THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH.

I love the implication that we're all too stupid to know what's going on.

ONCE AGAIN: and I can't make it any clearer: I SAW THE ACTUAL MESSAGES. THEY ALONE WERE ENOUGH.


"To Jon Hunt: again, I appreciate the loyalty you are showing. I see have been banned at the IP level from the Smile Shop message board. I will not do that to anyone who has decided to leave this message board. I am not going to add to the useless drama permeating this board any more than I have to. I also will not let this nonsense poison the relevant parts of this site or board. They will continue unblemished. "



I'm surprised the entire thread just hasn't been deleted.

And damn straight you're banned. I'd love for you to be able to post your one-line sarcastic messages over here more, but I'm afraid that's not gonna happen.


"I don't believe everything you've said about being harassed by the Professor, nor do I believe your current outrage is sincere."



Again: we are blaming the victim. That is pathetic.


To do so would be to grant a victory to those who want to convince others "this is exactly what happened with the Prof." 



The Prof. An innocent victim. I cannot BELIEVE this insanity.
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« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2006, 06:44:45 PM »

now I have to decide whether I should stay or not...THE LAST THING I NEED TO HEAR ABOUT IS A SUPPOSEDLY CHRISTIAN MAN BEHAVING LIKE JIM BAKER or JIMMY SWAGGERT...Let me guess, God told you she really wants it...
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« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2006, 06:45:07 PM »

Ian, did Jon want you to post this here?  I'm assuming if he wanted me to be able to respond, he'd turn off the ban.

Quote
The Prof. An innocent victim. I cannot BELIEVE this insanity.

I have never said the Professor was an innocent victim.  I have said I refuse to paint a gray matter black and white just to make it easier to digest.  NEITHER party was an innocent, helpless victim.

Quote
I love the implication that we're all too stupid to know what's going on.

I'm not calling anyone "stupid."  I am seeing people with long standing beefs with me, that had nothing do with my supposed "harassment," bringing out the laundry lists of every thing I've ever done to them.  Seems to me dots are being connected that shouldn't be.

Quote
I showed them to my wife, and she was APPALLED. And she doesn't even know the full history. She was just appalled by the "blame the victim" stance.

How is someone a helpless victim, when they encourage improper behavior for months, ask someone to stop, and the person stops?  How is someone an innocent victim when they insist they don't want to talk about a supposedly painful incident, and then continue to post one liners and assertions?  Of course someone is going to be appalled if they are told someone is a helpless and innocent victim.  Problem is, the facts don't back that conclusion up.

Quote
So: Chuck has decided to trust the Prof's words over Laurie's. Brilliant.

Not at all.  I believe what I've been able to verify.  Both parties were at fault.  Both ended up becoming victims of something they started and fostered together.  It was not a simple matter of a bad man and sweet, innocent woman.

Quote
I will say it again: What Chuck did, and last time I posted this he deleted the message, was to post pictures of Laurie, with her face superimposed over the body of a naked woman in a hot tub. *I* found it extremely inappropriate. John Lane found it equally so. Ian found it doubly so. Just about everybody involved wondered how in the hell it made sense to post something like that SO SOON AFTER THE PROFESSOR INCIDENTS.

I did not.  Since you crave details, I did photoshop a partial picture of her in a body of water, but the picture of her was not naked, nor was it someone else's naked picture.  It was meant to be funny in the context of the message thread.  Other people added to the photo.  While all of you were so offended, she made it clear to me at the time she thought it was funny.  Again, this has become so exaggerated it is ridiculous. 

Quote
Sometimes people don't know how to tell the harasser that they find the messages disgusting. THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM RIGHT.

I did not say the Professor's messages were "right."  I've said the opposite.  But this wasn't two to three months of not being able to tell him to stop.  This was two or three months of mutual activity.

Quote
And here is where the problems lie. You know what? Whether you think you're right or not, when a woman says that your attentions are making her uncomfortable, you STOP. And you apologize, profusely. PERIOD. Even if your intentions are harmless. Even if you had NOTHING IN MIND WHATSOEVER. YOU STOP. ***PERIOD***.

I did stop.  I did apologise.  And we now see how effective all that was.

Quote
Don't they fucking have sexual harassment classes at your place of employ?

I have no idea.  But as I've never sexually harassed anyone, here or otherwise, that has nothing to do with anything.
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« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2006, 06:48:20 PM »

now I have to decide whether I should stay or not...THE LAST THING I NEED TO HEAR ABOUT IS A SUPPOSEDLY CHRISTIAN MAN BEHAVING LIKE JIM BAKER or JIMMY SWAGGERT...Let me guess, God told you she really wants it...

This is exactly why I felt the need to say what I said.  Now we have people believing I have sexually harassed someone.  Now, as I told Jeff Mason, we are actively attempting to turn me into Professor Part II.  And I will not have it. 

As for "supposedly Christian man,"  Christians were not sinless and perfect last time I checked.  But if I'm going to be accused of a sin, make it factual.
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« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2006, 06:51:21 PM »

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Ian, did Jon want you to post this here?

No, not necessarily. But I felt you should be given a chance to respond, in all fairness.

Charles, your standards of what harassment is or isn't clearly are not shared by others.
You keep going into attack mode when all you should be doing, IMO, is apologising.

People have read your messages and are greatly offended. They are going simply on that. Not on accusations.
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« Reply #48 on: February 28, 2006, 06:54:49 PM »

and just to prove I can be fair, if IF IF the female in question is who I think it COULD be, the avatar itself could be considered provocative...
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« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2006, 06:56:43 PM »

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Ian, did Jon want you to post this here?

No, not necessarily. But I felt you should be given a chance to respond, in all fairness.

Charles, your standards of what harassment is or isn't clearly are not shared by others.
You keep going into attack mode when all you should be doing, IMO, is apologising.

People have read your messages and are greatly offended. They are going simply on that. Not on accusations.

I'm not in attack mode.  I'm in defense mode.  I will not idly stand by while others recreate events to their own ends. 

As for apologizing, I have, over and over again, for things I have done and not done.  I just posted a very long message apologizing to various people.  But that doesn't mean history gets to be rewritten. 

Of course they are going to be offended.  I defended myself against Snow White.  This goes beyond this message board.  I mean, haven't you wondered why, if she was so perplexed and bothered by the Professor, she didn't mention it to her husband the entire time?  I know the answer to that, and it makes perfect sense, unfortunately.
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