If Smile had been released back in 1967...

[rab2591]

This thread from last year (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8640.0.html) has a few interesting/humorous alternate history posts.

[Mike's Beard]

Does anyone else remember about a year ago when that guy posted an alternative Beach Boys history on this board, where Brian did complete Smile only to commit suicide a few months down the road? AGD's reaction was priceless.  




Edit: Yep, that would be the one Rab! 

[Crow]

Sinatra was doing concept albums long before Pet Sounds, Smile or Pepper. And they are amazing

[pixletwin]

http://cabinessence.net/essays/talesalt.html

If it's not this, I'll eat my hat.

There is something laughably and impossibly absurd about the idea that Lennon would ever be tearful about anything in a public soundbite.

[rab2591]

http://cabinessence.net/essays/talesalt.html

If it's not this, I'll eat my hat.

There is something laughably and impossibly absurd about the idea that Lennon would ever be tearful about anything in a public soundbite.

Indeed some inadequacies; However this is the best alternate history piece I've read on SMiLE (not that there are many of them, though). I'm off to make some alternate-history Beach Boys playlists!

[filledeplage]

I'm pretty sure that if SMiLE did see the light of day, Brian would have realized where he started to lose control of the project, and what he could do to pull things together faster the next time. He didn't have the luxury of the rest of the band helping or a George Martin.

I went through a creative period in my early 20's where I always pushed too far, in spite of knowing and being taught KISS (keep it simple, stupid).
Your brain knows no boundaries, but hasn't become acquainted with all the physics of reality quite yet.

After nearly losing my shirt a couple of times I got things sussed out!

I would also think that Brian would have done what a lot of successful artists have done - gone on to produce other bands. Since he wouldn't be touring, who knows! He very well might have been working with the Doors or Hendrix or...

Going down the path of "revisionist history" can be a dangerous thing to do...if one is "re-imagining" and that is disclaimed at the outset, then, all is well.  However, 1967 was a tricky year;  Carl, was arrested for issues relative to military service and that saga must have weighed heavily on the day-to-day operations of The Band, constantly worrying about whether Carl would be able to perform, as he had become responsible for more of the singing, on tour.  Among conservative people, at the time, "draft dodging" was not well thought of.  It was very complex and hardly the idyllic post-war (WWII and Korea) early 1960's, when TV represented a now non-existent family structure.      

Smiley Smile was released after a repack of hits, Best of, Vol I, on the heels of Pet Sounds.  Hindsight, being 20/20 (pun intended) makes reasonable people wonder what happened with the marketing of Pet Sounds, a "sleeper," and the SMiLE project.   People have debated theories on art and music since the first day dawned.  If the record company messed up, they learned a valuable lesson as Pet Sounds has been listed as the #2 "must have" rock album of all time.  Did they "under-appreciate" SMiLE?  Maybe.  We were not there, in a decision-making capacity.    

Maybe SMiLE wasn't meant to be...at that time.  People tend to appreciate art or music as time passes, and it almost becomes mythical.  Fresh eyes looking at older work is always a good thing, not unlike Brian's Gershwin project.  Brian took Gershwin to a new generation, and freshened it for those already familiar with it.  

SMiLE sessions should be no different and a snapshot of the project, which should finally lay to rest  with regards as to who did what singing, etc., and what the more inclusive tracking would sound like, for us all to enjoy and not just those who may have been privy to bootlegs, etc., over time...

As for me...I can't wait for the SMiLE sessions with the twenty-something voices of the Beach Boys to be released!        

[bsten]

This thread from last year (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8640.0.html) has a few interesting/humorous alternate history posts.

Thanks for the link!  

And now back to the real world. I find these facts very strange. (about Beatles Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever - from Wikipedia)

"In the UK, the pairing famously failed to reach #1 in the singles charts, stalling one place below Engelbert Humperdinck's "Release Me". In the US the song reached #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for a week before being knocked off by The Turtles song "Happy Together"".

EH more popular than the Beatles? And only one week at the top in the US?
Those songs are some of the most well-written pop songs ever!

And this also from Wikileaks, sorry ...pedia:

""Sloop John B" was extremely successful, scoring a #3 hit in the U.S. and #2 in Great Britain. "Wouldn't It Be Nice" reached #8 in the U.S. Its flip side, "God Only Knows," was another #2 single in Britain, but reached only #39 in the States. The LP broke into the Top Ten in the U.S., belying its reputation as a commercial failure there. In Australia, the album was only released under the title The Fabulous Beach Boys on the Music for Pleasure label". (!!!)

On the other hand, "Good vibrations" made it to #1 both in the UK and the US - so was SMILE really ahead of its time? Could perhaps "Surf's up" have made it to the top of the charts? Who knows???

[Chocolate Shake Man]

I find these facts very strange. (about Beatles Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever - from Wikipedia)

"In the UK, the pairing famously failed to reach #1 in the singles charts, stalling one place below Engelbert Humperdinck's "Release Me". In the US the song reached #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for a week before being knocked off by The Turtles song "Happy Together"".

EH more popular than the Beatles? And only one week at the top in the US?
Those songs are some of the most well-written pop songs ever!

Well, according to Wikipedia, the SFF/PL single ultimately outsold "Release Me" by a ratio of 2 to 1 but because the "BBC counted the two songs as two individual singles", the EH song outranked them on the list.

I think your post shows that the success or lack of success of a lead-in single does not necessarily allow us to accurately predict how well an album will do. Sure, a single in the top 10 will help sell albums. But Sloop John B ranked as high as Surfin' USA as a single in the charts and yet Pet Sounds went to #10 while S USA went to #2.

I think too that while Good Vibrations has hit single written all over it, you can't really say the same for other Smile tracks no matter how great they are. I'm really not sure how successful the album would have been. I think, like people on this thread are saying, that the Monterey Pop festival would have been crucial, particularly the film. After all, it was the Woodstock movie that really brought The Who and Tommy widespread success in the United States. I think a film like Monterey Pop could have possibly done the same for The Beach Boys and Smile if their performance was up to snuff (it would have been difficult to out-perform The Who and Hendrix on film) but I'm not sure if the album could have done it alone.

[Roger Ryan]

EH more popular than the Beatles? And only one week at the top in the US?
Those songs are some of the most well-written pop songs ever!

Sales figures alone rarely equate with lasting greatness and songs which inspire future generations of musicians. By early '67, the initial fervor over the Beatles (in the U.S. anyway) had lost some of its momentum and "Strawberry Fields Forever" was seen as being a weird left turn that didn't even sound like the band. All would be forgiven when SGT. PEPPER was embraced by the counter-culture AND the mainstream a few months later, but what we consider great now wasn't necessarily the most popular at the time. In fact, a lot of what is great now is not the most popular either!

I'll roll out my favorite Grammy Awards fact:

Four of the nominations for best rock song of 1966 were The Beach Boys' "Good Vibrations", The Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby, The Mamas & The Papas' "Monday Monday" and Simon & Garfunkel's "The Sound of Silence".

The winner was the fifth nomination...The New Vaudeville Band's "Winchester Cathedral".  

[pixletwin]

That song, Winchester Cathedral" gives me the creeps.

[Jcc]

http://cabinessence.net/essays/talesalt.html

If it's not this, I'll eat my hat.

There is something laughably and impossibly absurd about the idea that Lennon would ever be tearful about anything in a public soundbite.

Well, keep in mind I wrote it almost 10 years ago.  I actually revised it a few years back after BWPS came out, but I never got around to posting an updated version (with some of the more embarrassing parts edited out), but I think it's quite possible that under those circumstances, the loss of a good friend and occasional musical collaborator, in such a violent, senseless way, and being interviewed the day after, Lennon might have been a little choked up.  I did not intend the sentence to mean that Lennon would be sobbing like Tammy Faye Bakker.

  

[pixletwin]

I really don't think Lennon would even be choked up... never publicly anyway. His habit of grief was emotionless shock followed by hysterical fits of laughing, ending with never mentioning it again to anyone unless he could handle his emotions.

Its really neither here nor there I 'spose. I enjoyed reading it though.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Carl, was arrested for issues relative to military service and that saga must have weighed heavily on the day-to-day operations of The Band, constantly worrying about whether Carl would be able to perform

The Band?! Were Carl and Robbie Robertson close?    I kid, I kid...

I personally think that Monterey would have been a disaster...the band at the time could barely play the oldies competently live...the live band circa 1967 doing Cabinessence live makes me

[pixletwin]

True. The BB live sounded so heavy and encumbered. It is difficult to picture them pulling that gig off... but then again a lot of stoned people prolly wouldn't have cared. Maybe showing their faces at the festival would have been enough?

[rab2591]

At Monterey I imagine them singing 'Wonderful', 'Surf's Up', 'Good Vibrations', 'Wind Chimes', 'I Know There's An Answer', 'IJWMFTT', 'God Only Knows' - let them wear whatever the heck they wanted to and it would have been a fantastic show for them....yeah, Hendrix was there - big deal - The Mamas and The Papas were there and they had a great show that didn't damage their rep.

The Beach Boys would have kicked ass there.

[Bicyclerider]

If it had been released and been successful, as it probably would have been, Brian would have moved on to a humor album (including the Vegetables arguments and the cab driver tape), a nature album (with the Vosse water recordings and lots of chants), and a health album with songs about exercise, eating salads, swimming and ping pong.  None of these releases would chart, but Brian would be one step ahead of the Beatles' similarly uncommercial Zapple releases.  While working on these projects he would also produce a number one album with Redwood, following their number one single "Darlin'."

With the success of Redwood Brian would try to leave the Beach Boys to focus on writing and producing other artists, but Mike and Carl would convince him to do one more album.  In a brilliant effort to sabotage the project and enable him to pursue other interests, he would release "Smiley Smile" as a sequel to Smile - bizarrely raw home recordings of the group making amateurish remakes of some of Smile's greatest triumphs such as Wonderful, Vegetables, Surf's Up and Wind Chimes along with new songs like "Hawaiian song" that break down in stoned laughter and several a capella chants.  The album would not chart and Brian would finally be free to produce the artists he was interested in.

Carl would leave the Beach Boys shortly thereafter and join The Flame.  Dennis would pursue a solo career, first as a duo with Daryl Dragon.  Their first release, It's About Time, would be a top 20 album, released to coincide with his film acting debut.  Al retires to Big Sur where he claims to be working on a solo album that will only see release thirty years later.  Mike joins the Pickle Brothers as Mike Love and the Pickles and plays in Vegas and Reno as a musical comedy act.

[Mahalo]

I wouldn't get that look like I'm a mentally handicapped person when I tell people how much I love the Beach Boys...if SMiLE was released in 1967.

[rab2591]

I wouldn't get that look like I'm a mentally handicapped person when I tell people how much I love the Beach Boys...if SMiLE was released in 1967.

How sadly true.

[filledeplage]

Carl, was arrested for issues relative to military service and that saga must have weighed heavily on the day-to-day operations of The Band, constantly worrying about whether Carl would be able to perform

The Band?! Were Carl and Robbie Robertson close?    I kid, I kid...

I personally think that Monterey would have been a disaster...the band at the time could barely play the oldies competently live...the live band circa 1967 doing Cabinessence live makes me

In 1967, they were sharing the billing with either 2 or 3 other warm up acts.  It seemed endless to wait for them to get on stage.  The oldest people in the audience looked about 21-22.  Granted, there were great bands, like Strawberry Alarm Clock, and Buffalo Springfield, but The Boys only did about 12-13 songs per show. They wrote the setlist on the palm of their hands.  People were looking for what they knew, and got that and a few new songs.  I use "The Band" referencing The Beach Boys not - The Band (the band!  )

And, I can assure you that there was no limit to competence.  They were rockin'  hot - Dennis was throwing drum sticks to the audience and the girls were throwing their phone numbers on the stage to Dennis...Mike was playing the Theremin for Good Vibrations.  

But, I can't venture an opinion on Monterey.  There were bands who got a great deal of exposure, both at Monterey and Woodstock.  
None of them, have had the enduring longevity of the Boys.  

Setlist from 11/23/67 - Back Bay Theater - Boston, Mass.

1. Help Me Rhonda
2. Barbara Ann
3. Darlin'
4. Surfer Girl
5. Wouldn't It Be Nice
6. God Only Knows
7. California Girls
8. Wild Honey
9. Good Vibrations
10 I Get Around
11. Sloop John B
12. Graduation Day

* Eric Anniversario's Set List Archive (Thanks)  
 

[Jcc]

Well, theoretically, if SMiLE had come out...and been a major success, could the Wrecking Crew be brought to Monterey?

I mean, it would have been ridiculously expensive to do, but if you're the top rock-and-roll band in the world, and your most recent album is #1 in the charts, selling millions of copies, and making tons of money, then I would imagine there's no limit to your hubris.  The Wrecking Crew would have come to Monterey.

Speculative Setlist IMHO:

1) Our Prayer
2) Heroes and Villains
3) California Girls
4) I Get Around
5) Help Me Rhonda
6) Wouldn't It Be Nice
7) God Only Knows
I Just Wasn't Made For These Times
9) Surf's Up
10) Good Vibrations
11) Surfin' USA
12) Barbara Ann
13) Fun Fun Fun

[OneEar/OneEye]

I think they could have pulled Monterey off just fine.  No, they weren't going to blow the crowd away like Hendrix and the Who, but that's not their style of performance.  The question is could they have done as well as similar bands like the Mamas and Papas and the Association, and I'd say yeah, they certainly could have. 
They wouldn't have had to have played the whole album (when did they ever back then?) but a selection of Pet Sounds songs along with Heroes and Villains, Wonderful, Vegetables, Good Vibrations and a few older tunes, and they'd of been alright.    I don't think it would have hurt them, I don't see them getting the treatment poor Laura Nyro did, I believe it would have only helped them if anything.   But, ah well...

[rab2591]

Here is a fantastic thread on Monterey - regarding the Beach Boys: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,5294.0.html

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Sorry, but I agree with Jon Stebbins on this one...

[Micha]

I also think that SMiLE would have been the last such ambitious work...though Wild Honey would have been a lot better and a lot more produced.  I also speculated that BW would still have had a mental breakdown (you can't keep away mental illness forever), which would have compromised Wild Honey a bit, but it would also have caused the group to begin taking a more active role in songwriting and production. 

I think that's pretty close to what would've happened - at least pretty close to what I think would have happened.  As Good Vibrations initially was a step towards RnB, an album like Wild Honey would have been a logical step. As you said, it would have been better produced. Darlin' and Wild Honey as we know them are songs as good as the pre-PetSounds hits, equally well arranged, but they just sound so ... well, what's the word? Stiff? Muffed? Unexciting, anyway.

But then again, maybe Brian would have collapsed during the making of Wild Honey instead of SMiLE, so we'd have a Wild Honey board today wondering how THAT record would've been like!

In a brilliant effort to sabotage the project and enable him to pursue other interests, he would release "Smiley Smile" as a sequel to Smile - bizarrely raw home recordings of the group making amateurish remakes of some of Smile's greatest triumphs such as Wonderful, Vegetables, Surf's Up and Wind Chimes along with new songs like "Hawaiian song" that break down in stoned laughter and several a capella chants.

Actually that is part of my own fantasy about what might happen in a world with SMiLE released in 1967, as I really love the Smiley Versions of Wind Chimes and Vegetables as well as a few other tracks from Smiley.  I don't think that would have happened though!

[WaxOn]

But then again, maybe Brian would have collapsed during the making of Wild Honey instead of SMiLE, so we'd have a Wild Honey board today wondering how THAT record would've been like!

So it would have been Wildy Wild Honeyey Honey? 

I know that we tend to ignore the mental aspect of things - as did the rest of the band probably.
But, having friends that have been bipolar or worse - it's inevitable and there's nothing you can do about it except get them the help they need.

In all honesty even with everybody behind him 100%, I don't think it might ever have been possible. It would have turned into a double album, then an album with a movie, then...