How much has leaked?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Just that one photo you posted is quite stunning guitarfool - if I didn't know any better, I'd say it was from the 50's or 60's. 

It's even more impressive when viewed as intended, as one of a stereo pair. However, as is hinted at by the coloured edges, it wasn't a commercially viable process. Basically, each image comprised three separate plates - red/blue/yellow - taped together in precise register, and the camera required doesn't bear thinking about ! The Autochrome process developed by the Lumiere brothers (yes, same ones) killed it.

[The Shift]

I'm just happy to not EVER AGAIN spend money on a Smile bootleg.

I think that if this set puts paid to the SMiLE bootleg industry that would be a marvellous accolade for Mark and Alan.

Something tells me, though, that, despite their very best efforts, we might never hear the end of SMiLE.

Indeed, some bootleggers might be holding on to tapes in order to cash in on the huge wave of interest the release of the official set will generate.

There might never be an actual new song, there might never even be a significant new mix discovered, but I reckon there'll be a sloooooooow trickle of studio talk, session extracts and such.

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.









At least, until AGD writes the definitive, nuts-and-bolts chronological account with notes on inspiration and scene-setting by Bill Toberman and Fishmonk!  

[Andrew G. Doe]

I'm just happy to not EVER AGAIN spend money on a Smile bootleg.

I think that if this set puts paid to the SMiLE bootleg industry that would be a marvellous accolade for Mark and Alan.

Something tells me, though, that, despite their very best efforts, we might never hear the end of SMiLE.

Indeed, some bootleggers might be holding on to tapes in order to cash in on the huge wave of interest the release of the official set will generate.

There might never be an actual new song, there might never even be a significant new mix discovered, but I reckon there'll be a sloooooooow trickle of studio talk, session extracts and such.

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.









At least, until AGD writes the definitive, nuts-and-bolts chronological account with notes on inspiration and scene-setting by Bill Toberman and Fishmonk!  

Remember what happened with The Pet Sounds Sessions ? Three CDs crammed full with a first-time stereo mix, tracking sessions, vocal sessions, tracks only, vocals only and a whole mess of other stuff... and before I could get the shrink-wrap off my copy people were bitching about what wasn't included from Capitol Punishment and/or the 8-disc SOT set.

Always remember this - going right back to the 1990 2fers (which rightly set the industry standard), Capitol don't have to do this. None of it. They've made more bucks out of the three GH volumes, Sounds of Summer and The Warmth Of The Sun than all the other rarities comps and boxes put together.  We're always bitching about Capitol putting out yet another compilation, yet when they do give us something like, say, Hawthorne CA, some dickwad will pipe up and say they didn't like it because their beloved five seconds of silence only broken by Brian farting in the key of F sharp had been excised from the fade of "Barnyard"... and it'll be exactly the same with The Smile Sessions, only worse - much, much worse.  Of course, if there's something truly bad or ineptly executed, or just plain wrong then that criticism will be deserved, but even then, fact is Capitol are doing this for the kudos, not the profits.

[desmondo]

I'm just happy to not EVER AGAIN spend money on a Smile bootleg.

I think that if this set puts paid to the SMiLE bootleg industry that would be a marvellous accolade for Mark and Alan.

Something tells me, though, that, despite their very best efforts, we might never hear the end of SMiLE.

Indeed, some bootleggers might be holding on to tapes in order to cash in on the huge wave of interest the release of the official set will generate.

There might never be an actual new song, there might never even be a significant new mix discovered, but I reckon there'll be a sloooooooow trickle of studio talk, session extracts and such.

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.









At least, until AGD writes the definitive, nuts-and-bolts chronological account with notes on inspiration and scene-setting by Bill Toberman and Fishmonk!  

Remember what happened with The Pet Sounds Sessions ? Three CDs crammed full with a first-time stereo mix, tracking sessions, vocal sessions, tracks only, vocals only and a whole mess of other stuff... and before I could get the shrink-wrap off my copy people were bitching about what wasn't included from Capitol Punishment and/or the 8-disc SOT set.

Always remember this - going right back to the 1990 2fers (which rightly set the industry standard), Capitol don't have to do this. None of it. They've made more bucks out of the three GH volumes, Sounds of Summer and The Warmth Of The Sun than all the other rarities comps and boxes put together.  We're always bitching about Capitol putting out yet another compilation, yet when they do give us something like, say, Hawthorne CA, some dickwad will pipe up and say they didn't like it because their beloved five seconds of silence only broken by Brian farting in the key of F sharp had been excised from the fade of "Barnyard"... and it'll be exactly the same with The Smile Sessions, only worse - much, much worse.  Of course, if there's something truly bad or ineptly executed, or just plain wrong then that criticism will be deserved, but even then, fact is Capitol are doing this for the kudos, not the profits.

AGD - that's the most appropriate use of 'dickwad' I've heard in a long time

Personally I am very much looking forward to the Box Set - I think it will be great

What I am not looking forward to is some of the dickwad responses 

[JohnMill]

I'm just happy to not EVER AGAIN spend money on a Smile bootleg.

I think that if this set puts paid to the SMiLE bootleg industry that would be a marvellous accolade for Mark and Alan.

Something tells me, though, that, despite their very best efforts, we might never hear the end of SMiLE.

Indeed, some bootleggers might be holding on to tapes in order to cash in on the huge wave of interest the release of the official set will generate.

There might never be an actual new song, there might never even be a significant new mix discovered, but I reckon there'll be a sloooooooow trickle of studio talk, session extracts and such.

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.









At least, until AGD writes the definitive, nuts-and-bolts chronological account with notes on inspiration and scene-setting by Bill Toberman and Fishmonk!  

Remember what happened with The Pet Sounds Sessions ? Three CDs crammed full with a first-time stereo mix, tracking sessions, vocal sessions, tracks only, vocals only and a whole mess of other stuff... and before I could get the shrink-wrap off my copy people were bitching about what wasn't included from Capitol Punishment and/or the 8-disc SOT set.

Always remember this - going right back to the 1990 2fers (which rightly set the industry standard), Capitol don't have to do this. None of it. They've made more bucks out of the three GH volumes, Sounds of Summer and The Warmth Of The Sun than all the other rarities comps and boxes put together.  We're always bitching about Capitol putting out yet another compilation, yet when they do give us something like, say, Hawthorne CA, some dickwad will pipe up and say they didn't like it because their beloved five seconds of silence only broken by Brian farting in the key of F sharp had been excised from the fade of "Barnyard"... and it'll be exactly the same with The Smile Sessions, only worse - much, much worse.  Of course, if there's something truly bad or ineptly executed, or just plain wrong then that criticism will be deserved, but even then, fact is Capitol are doing this for the kudos, not the profits.

I can see both sides of the story.  First off those who tend to complain about what isn't included on sets like this likely already have the material already in their collections which brings forth the question: "What are they complaining about"?  However, I've always felt that any time someone asks the consumer to plunk down money for a product, if the consumer is unsatisfied with the product he has a right to complain.  Furthermore venting on a message board to fellow fans in the long run really doesn't do any harm and is really the only recourse for fans looking to "register a complaint".  I don't see anything wrong with that and in fact can produce some lively discussion as to what was included vs. what wasn't included.

I'm also not of the opinion that Capitol is mainly doing this for the plaudits of the fans and not for a profit.  Sure they will make more money selling to the mainstream consumer but they've already cornered that market for years with all of their compilations that you mentioned.  People will always buy Beach Boys greatest hits albums and hopefully some of them will listen to those hits records and think to themselves "Hey this is a pretty good band...I wonder why I don't have any more albums by them in my collection" and then they go and buy the two-fers and so on and so forth.

In the case of the "SMiLE" boxset they are marketing to a different demographic of Beach Boys fans, smaller in size but also quite bankable.  Think of it this way: They've likely already sold copies of the deluxe edition of the boxset to most of the people posting on this website right now.  They are obviously more out there just like us that don't post here and they've already sold "SMiLE" boxes to those folks too.  So essentially they have the cash of many in their pockets months before the actual release date.  Then you have to add on to that any fans they will bring in by their promotional campaign, word of mouth or their clever marketing ploy of releasing the album in several different formats.  I'm sure there will be more than a couple people out there who will buy the standard version of the set only to find that they enjoy the "SMiLE" music and then buy the deluxe edition.  So essentially there they would've have sold the same music twice to those consumers.

The bottom line for me is that first and foremost it's always about the money when it comes to big business.  They have different ways and approaches to getting cash into their pockets but in the end it's really the same bit of business.  For example as Doug Sulpy rightfully pointed out recently on his forums, the "Lost Lennon Tapes" radio series wasn't so much a generous act on the part of Yoko Ono to share unreleased Lennon music with his fans but a selling point for the radio series itself which generated a lot of bank for all of those involved in it's production.  It also whetted the appetite of Lennon fans for more of this stuff which Ono has been able to sell to them in various formats over the past decade from box sets, to remasters to more reissues and so on and so forth.

 

[guitarfool2002]

Just that one photo you posted is quite stunning guitarfool - if I didn't know any better, I'd say it was from the 50's or 60's. 

It's even more impressive when viewed as intended, as one of a stereo pair. However, as is hinted at by the coloured edges, it wasn't a commercially viable process. Basically, each image comprised three separate plates - red/blue/yellow - taped together in precise register, and the camera required doesn't bear thinking about ! The Autochrome process developed by the Lumiere brothers (yes, same ones) killed it.

Anyone wishing to see the 1906 earthquake photos both individually and as a stereo pair can find them here:

http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/03/san-francisco-earthquake-1906-in-colour/

There are a few other color shots of the quake included there as well. Also of interest on that same site are a group of Charlie Chaplin photos, showing him in color from another early experiment with color photography and processing. It's not quite the gut-level impact as the 1906 photos, but seeing a younger Chaplin in color is still a bit of a shock.

The specific San Francisco photo I posted features those color billboards: It speaks to the way we have been conditioned over time to see 1906 in black and white, and to see Charlie Chaplin in black and white. As soon as that level of familiarity is removed and they start to appear closer to a modern image, in sharper color with bright and active colors and graphics on an everyday advertisement, it almost changes your perception of the subject of that image and you feel more connected to it.

I cannot stop thinking of the comparisons to various Smile recordings, and how we've known certain songs for 25+ years as poor-sounding and noisy recordings as many here have already been saying...and like the people who discovered those 1906 color shots after decades in storage, I cannot wait to hear what shows up on the box set in a more vibrant quality than we've known.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Chaplin shots are fascinating - they're autochromes, btw - because the colors of the pants and the waistcoat are NOTHING like I'd imagined. Can you imagine what Intolerance would have looked like, even in something like Kinemacolor ? (In fact, Karl Brown shot some tests of the big Babylonian set using an adapted camera - lord, would I love to see that footage).

[guitarfool2002]

The Chaplin shots are fascinating - they're autochromes, btw - because the colors of the pants and the waistcoat are NOTHING like I'd imagined. Can you imagine what Intolerance would have looked like, even in something like Kinemacolor ? (In fact, Karl Brown shot some tests of the big Babylonian set using an adapted camera - lord, would I love to see that footage).

It's incredible to see that man appearing in color because every image in my mind of Chaplin as a younger man is in black and white! The most mundane elements like seeing Chaplin in front of a brick wall and seeing the bricks as red, not to mention the colors of his clothing, can also be the most jarring because it's unlike any image of him which most people have in their minds.

Did those test shots from Intolerance survive, or are they lost as of now? Any color footage or imagery of any kind from those years would be magnificent.

[Wrightfan]

(In fact, Karl Brown shot some tests of the big Babylonian set using an adapted camera - lord, would I love to see that footage).

I'd jump through a ring of fire to see that. That set is amazing enough in black and white.

[Andrew G. Doe]

The Chaplin shots are fascinating - they're autochromes, btw - because the colors of the pants and the waistcoat are NOTHING like I'd imagined. Can you imagine what Intolerance would have looked like, even in something like Kinemacolor ? (In fact, Karl Brown shot some tests of the big Babylonian set using an adapted camera - lord, would I love to see that footage).

It's incredible to see that man appearing in color because every image in my mind of Chaplin as a younger man is in black and white! The most mundane elements like seeing Chaplin in front of a brick wall and seeing the bricks as red, not to mention the colors of his clothing, can also be the most jarring because it's unlike any image of him which most people have in their minds.

Did those test shots from Intolerance survive, or are they lost as of now? Any color footage or imagery of any kind from those years would be magnificent.

According to Brown, he modified a camera and shot Kinemacolor-style footage of the Big Set, then rigged up a projector and showed it to Griffith, who was impressed, but declined to toss something like nine month's footage in the bin and start again. Brown, as you doubtless know, worked for the Kinemacolor company when he first arrived in LA, and Griffith bought the studio when they went under.

On a related note, there's apparently a reel of Napoleon vu par Abel Gance that was shot in both color and 3D.

[bgas]

Never could figure out how to see the Chaplin images; I did enjoy watching that guy in AGD's avatar walking and talking on his mobile phone( sans the stovepipe hat, of course)

[PhilCohen]

I'm just happy to not EVER AGAIN spend money on a Smile bootleg.

I think that if this set puts paid to the SMiLE bootleg industry that would be a marvellous accolade for Mark and Alan.

Something tells me, though, that, despite their very best efforts, we might never hear the end of SMiLE.

Indeed, some bootleggers might be holding on to tapes in order to cash in on the huge wave of interest the release of the official set will generate.

There might never be an actual new song, there might never even be a significant new mix discovered, but I reckon there'll be a sloooooooow trickle of studio talk, session extracts and such.

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.









At least, until AGD writes the definitive, nuts-and-bolts chronological account with notes on inspiration and scene-setting by Bill Toberman and Fishmonk!  

Remember what happened with The Pet Sounds Sessions ? Three CDs crammed full with a first-time stereo mix, tracking sessions, vocal sessions, tracks only, vocals only and a whole mess of other stuff... and before I could get the shrink-wrap off my copy people were bitching about what wasn't included from Capitol Punishment and/or the 8-disc SOT set.

Vigotone's "Capitol Punishment" was not "Pet Sounds" material. It contained sessions for "The Beach Boys Today", and it was rendered obsolete by the 8 discs of material on Sea of Tunes' "Unsurpassed Masters" Vols. 7 & 8. For me, the only glaring omission from the official "Pet Sounds Sessions" box was the single version of "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

As for whether much more 1960's Beach Boys session material exists beyond what "Sea of Tunes" released, it should be noted that for certain songs(notably on "Summer Days & Summer Nights") that "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to the 2nd(of 2) multitracks, I.E. the "Stage 2" multitracks after 3-track to 3-track, 4-track to 4-track or 3-track to 8-track reductions(or "Bounces" as some refer to them). For example, "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to the "Stage 2" multitrack for "Do You Wanna Dance" that has the overdub which doubles Dennis' lead vocal, and they didn't have access to the "Stage 2" multitrack which has the released(correct lyric) vocals for "Amusement Parks U.S.A.". And before you ask, the "Stage 2" multitrack for "Sandy"(if there ever was one) doesn't exist. Mark Linett has explained that the little bit of vocals present on the bootleg release of the song are all that exists in The Beach Boys tape vault.

All of this suggests, that if there were "Stage 2" multitracks for certain "Smile" songs, and "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to some of them, that there COULD be some unheard additional vocal or instrumental overdubs on (otherwise) familiar "Smile" tracks. But if this proposed "Smile" box doesn't happen, the undeniable reality, is that we have most of the music already.

[guitarfool2002]

Never could figure out how to see the Chaplin images; I did enjoy watching that guy in AGD's avatar walking and talking on his mobile phone( sans the stovepipe hat, of course)

Direct link to Chaplin: http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/04/charlie-chaplin-1917-1918-in-colour/

Sample from that link:

[Mikie]

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.

The Coke ingredients are out there and obtainable.  The mystery I'll go to my grave still wondering about will probably never be solved - what exactly happened in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Vigotone's "Capitol Punishment" was not "Pet Sounds" material. It contained sessions for "The Beach Boys Today", and it was rendered obsolete by the 8 discs of material on Sea of Tunes' "Unsurpassed Masters" Vols. 7 & 8. For me, the only glaring omission from the official "Pet Sounds Sessions" box was the single version of "Wouldn't It Be Nice".

Duh ! Thanks for pointing that out. I was misremembering Leggo my Ego.

As for whether much more 1960's Beach Boys session material exists beyond what "Sea of Tunes" released, it should be noted that for certain songs(notably on "Summer Days & Summer Nights") that "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to the 2nd(of 2) multitracks, I.E. the "Stage 2" multitracks after 3-track to 3-track, 4-track to 4-track or 3-track to 8-track reductions(or "Bounces" as some refer to them). For example, "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to the "Stage 2" multitrack for "Do You Wanna Dance" that has the overdub which doubles Dennis' lead vocal, and they didn't have access to the "Stage 2" multitrack which has the released(correct lyric) vocals for "Amusement Parks U.S.A.". And before you ask, the "Stage 2" multitrack for "Sandy"(if there ever was one) doesn't exist. Mark Linett has explained that the little bit of vocals present on the bootleg release of the song are all that exists in The Beach Boys tape vault.

All of this suggests, that if there were "Stage 2" multitracks for certain "Smile" songs, and "Sea of Tunes" didn't have access to some of them, that there COULD be some unheard additional vocal or instrumental overdubs on (otherwise) familiar "Smile" tracks.

The reason that the Summer Days SOT box was only 4 discs became clear when the call went out for tapes for the 1993 Capitol box... and a lot of those sessions turned up at Columbia (I know, and yet they lost the "GV" vocal multitracks !). The SOT, uh, compilers only had "access" to the BRI storage facility.

But if this proposed "Smile" box doesn't happen...

Phil, when the box is released - not on July 12th, but almost certainly before October 1st (this year  ) - will you then admit that you've been in the wrong about this all along ? Just as I will if it doesn't see the light of day before 1/1/12 ?

[Mikie]

"Capitol Punishment" also included Summer Days material. And "Little Girl I Once Knew" and "3 Blind Mice" and Glen Campbell swearing, and the excellent acapella part in "Please Let Me Wonder"......

[bgas]

SMiLE's been a mystery for decades and, like the Loch Ness Monster, Area 51 and the ingredients of Coca Cola, there'll always be an element of mystery.

The Coke ingredients are out there and obtainable.  The mystery I'll go to my grave still wondering about will probably never be solved - what exactly happened in Dallas on November 22, 1963.

Exactly: JFK was shot, and died.

[Mikie]

And what do you know?  Another smart-ass comment from Bgas!

[bgas]

And what do you know?  Another smart-ass comment from Bgas!

Thank you, Thank you very much!

[Ed Roach]

Direct link to Chaplin: http://www.howtobearetronaut.com/2011/04/charlie-chaplin-1917-1918-in-colour/

Sample from that link:

Amazing!  This building exists very much today as it did then, although not the ones next to it.  It's right on the beach in Venice; (in fact, it just reminded me that I have more lives than a cat!  I used to have an Indian artifact shop in that building, called Taos Trading Co.)  I searched to find an image of it today, and instead was shocked to see that Charlie never actually lived there - at least according to this website:  http://www.venicepaparazzi.com/2011/01/05/murals-of-venice/
Continue north on Ocean Front Walk. Past Paloma Avenue, you will see Charlie Chaplin’s Gingerbread Court (1913). No one knows why it is called after the famous silent film star because he never lived in Venice. What is known is that his first movie “Kid Auto Races at Venice,” was filmed in Venice in 1914.

[Ian]

I should add to this thread that when I was doing research for the TV/Film articles on the BBs that I contributed to ESQ-I got in touch with the David Frost archives and the Carson archives people. They were quite nice and took the time to answer all my questions.  As I feared-the "Lost" Frost app from May 1971 where Dennis performed "Forever" and "Lady" and the BBs sang "Vegetables" was indeed destroyed.  Clearly-however-there is an audio tape of this app-since it has been booted.  It also had a cool interview where Dennis discussed filming Two Lane Blacktop.  The Carson people also told me the same thing-the BBs made two 1968 apps on the show-with Johnny as host and both are gone.  The May 2 68 app would have been fascinating-because it was basically the BBs promoting their about to begin tour with Maharishi and talking about why TM is so great-plus singing "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring" and some "Friends" songs.  There is an audio tape of this too I should add-but tragically only the songs not the interview.  That being said-it is always possible that a fan made a kinescope of one of these shows that may turn up

[PhilCohen]

I remember Domenic Priore telling me about research into a Beach Boys appearance on "The Mike Douglas Show" where the group performed a few songs from "Friends", but the performance was lost, not by the tape being disposed of, but rather by tape deterioration which had rendered the tape unplayable.

[OBLiO]

Wow and thanks for sharing those links! Beautiful.

[TdHabib]

The vests and (blue?!) pants ruin the illusion of my favorite actor, Chaplin. Thank God color wasn't feasible back then.

[petsite]

Will there be things that collectors have on bootlegs that will not be included on the official SMILE box. Hell yeah. Will there be tracks on the official set we never have heard before. Of course! Because lets look at the facts of the issue. 4 CDs on the Capitol box set. There have been 2 CD's from Vigotone in 1993, another disk from them in 1998, 4 CD's from SOT and the "SECRET SMILE" downloads(2 CD's) from the 2000's. Even if you get rid of all the dupilcate tracks, there is still way more material than 4 CD's will handle. But what we WILL get from Capitol is primo, primo outtakes. Mark and Alan are really and truly busting ass to make sure this is a set that the fans will love. They want to do it right, not only for the fans, but for Brian as well. As someone who got a 10th generation tape of Fire in 1980 and heard the first 2 SMILE LP's from 1983 and 1985 and almost passed out from excitement, this is truly a dream come true!

Everyone (not just saying "you kids" but us old guys two) is so use to having everything right there at their fingertips, this is really a situation that needs to be treated as groundbreaking. Because if you actually lived through the heartbreak of 1966 (which I didnt), and the lost promises (which I did) of 1972, 1979, 1981, 1988, and 1996, this truly is a gift. Thanks to Mark and Alan!!!

Bob Flory